ANGRY at PCM Engine Group...

[IDBoating]

No offense but I can tell from the things you post here that you are the type that would want them to back that warranty even though you had your hands in there screwing around with it.

If I used PCM parts, and followed their procedures, and had the receipts to prove it - yes, I'd expect them to honor the warranty. But if it were within the warranty, I'd just take it to the dealer anyway... so the point is moot.

The key element you're missing here is that the manual helps you to know WHEN to take it to the dealer for warranty attention. As in my jetboat example above, without the manual I wouldn't have been so sensitive to the engine's proper operation. And were it still within warranty, I'd have taken it to the dealer.

[Timmy!]

If I were PCM, I wouldn't sell you a manual while you are still under warranty just because of the scenario you stated above where you swapped out the sensor. So YOU swap out the sensor or something else while it's under warranty and you install it wrong and then expect them to warranty it because you read how to do it in their manual. Just because you can read a manual does not make you a qualified service tech. No offense but I can tell from the things you post here that you are the type that would want them to back that warranty even though you had your hands in there screwing around with it.

[IDBoating]

Good grief... Sounds like Mr. Forte is your only hope at this point, which is really funny as that is who you should have started with in the first place!

I'm hoping. I've asked him a couple of times but haven't received a response on that question yet.

Ps for the jetski boat example... Did you already have the sensor in the boat?

I have collected a few spare parts over the years when convenient, "just in case". I have a couple of spark plug CDI modules, a trigger coil, etc. I picked up a couple of sensors from a guy who parted out his boat when his insurance company totaled it, and this was one of them. Worked out well, eh? {grin}

(And by the way, it's not a "jetski boat". It's not a glorified jetski with one of those little screaming mosquito jetski engines. It has a fuel injected V6 coupled to a real jetdrive. No {gag} plastic parts in sight!)

[skyski_tige]

Good grief... Sounds like Mr. Forte is your only hope at this point, which is really funny as that is who you should have started with in the first place!

Ps for the jetski boat example... Did you already have the sensor in the boat? :-)

[chpthril]

It's remarkable to me that PCM does not want to have educated customers.

They must be run by the same gang running our country


OK, just kidding PCM

[IDBoating]

Go easy...pace yourself and enjoy the fact you have a great boat, with a really good engine.

I hear what you are saying, and I appreciate the thought. But I have a saying: "Take good care of your equipment and it will take good care of you." The more you know about your equipment, the better you can take advantage of its features, and maintain it, and enjoy it.

I'll give you a perfect case in point. Last weekend, I noticed my jetboat's engine was putting out a bit of smoke. Nothing much, I see worse every day on the lake, but I know it's unusual for this engine.

Because I have extensive knowledge of that Mercury engine from reading the service manuals, I know that the port head temp sensor is used by the ECU to control fuel injector pulse width. It occurred to me that if that sensor were having problems, the ECU would dump excessive fuel into the cylinders, and that could cause this exact symptom. So I took a couple of minutes and swapped out the sensor for a new one.

Bingo! No more smoke, I regained a couple hundred RPM's at WOT, and my top speed bumped up by 3-4 MPH. In other words, the engine had been running rich because the sensor was lying to the ECU. I had been paying for that in excessive fuel consumption, substandard performance, probably increased fouling of plugs, etc.

I'd rather be running rich than lean, of course - but I'd REALLY rather be running properly. That's best for the engine, gives me the best fuel mileage, etc.

If I didn't have the service manual, I wouldn't know enough about this engine and its sensors to have thought of that possibility. It wasn't bad enough to take to a dealer, so I would have left it alone - and thus been running the engine out of spec for who knows how long. Instead, because I DO have the manual, I was sensitive to how the engine should work... I knew what could cause this behavior... and I knew how to check it.

It's remarkable to me that PCM does not want to have educated customers.

[embo]

WABoating...

all due respect...you eluded to some issues you might have in another thread when you first started posting...they are showing up really well in this thread. Go easy...pace yourself and enjoy the fact you have a great boat, with a really good engine. Take care of what you know, which sounds like more than the mere mortals that generally operate these boats, and I am sure you will have years of pleasure with your boat. And in time, even without the manuals, you will have a vast amount of knowledge that you can share with the rest of us. Count to 10 and breath

[IDBoating]

I don't think it's about the money....

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek there.

It SHOULD be about Customer Service. But apparently it's not.

[thtrog]

First (and very quick) response I have from PCM is "that training is only available to dealers, not the public". They are asking around to see if an exception can be made.

Dom, if you have a contact there, it would be really helpful.

I've never had so much trouble giving more of my money to a company.

I don't think it's about the money....

[IDBoating]

Will they sell you the manuals if you take their training courses?

First (and very quick) response I have from PCM is "that training is only available to dealers, not the public". They are asking around to see if an exception can be made.

Dom, if you have a contact there, it would be really helpful.

I've never had so much trouble giving more of my money to a company.

[IDBoating]

Good luck with the CBTs (computer based training), you will probably have more questions answered there than here.

I still don't have a contact name.

And frankly, I'm hoping Forte can just order me the manuals.

[Ewok]

Good luck with the CBTs (computer based training), you will probably have more questions answered there than here.

[IDBoating]

The training is on line for PCM, and I think with your curosity you would find quite interesting and informative

So is it available to mere mortals?

Really, at the end of the day I just want the manuals. If I have to sit through some online videos, I guess I can do that. Seems unnecessary when all I want to do is read manuals, though. It's not like I'm running a rogue shop and trying to service PCM engines on the sly.

Can you provide me with a contact at PCM that would be respectful of my interest, and not just dismiss me with a "You're not a shop, we're not interested"? Thanks!

[dom w. forte]

Straight from a PCM employee, not a dealer. To their credit, the local dealer tried hard to order the manual but was unable to do so.

Can YOU order the manuals for me? You're my East Coast dealer, after all {grin}. I'd love it if you could do it when my local dealer could not.



Here's the email I received:

>>The service manual that you describe is done through our online dealer training. This is not available to the public.<<



No, I want them for personal education about a very expensive PCM product I paid good money to buy. The more I know about a product, the better I can use and maintain it. After spending a day with you talking about engines, transmissions, etc. I suspect you feel the same way.

Would YOU be happy if a manufacturer refused to sell YOU the manuals after you paid thousands of dollars for their product?



I didn't ask. I don't want (and suspect I'm not qualified) to become a service tech, I just want to know as much as possible about this expensive engine.

(Note: Mercury doesn't ask if you want to take training courses, but they DO keep their customers happy by selling them the manuals.)

There is a big difference in mercury and PCM, mercury cares not about service techs and training, only in how much money is coming in, PCM requires mandatory training to keep their product serviced properly, and warranty issues under control.
We are certified, for PCM, Indmar, Marine Power, Mercury requires you to buy 10,000 worth of parts to become certified as a dealer, we are also ASE mastertech certified which is higher then marine qualifications.
The training is on line for PCM, and I think with your curosity you would find quite interesting and informative and you would not be training to be a tech, for that takes more then just the training.

[Timmy!]

Maybe in 3 years when your warranty is up you can really start to worry about it.