ANGRY at PCM Engine Group...

[dom w. forte]

Are you looking for mechanical, or computor related items, state which part of the power plant you are interested in?

[Fiveflat]

All of this over a stupid booklet.

What is the life or death situation that you need the service manual for anyway? Why isn't the user's manual good enough?

Just for the heck of it, I went to PCM's site and flipped through their 83 page maintenance manual on the 343. I was very impressed with what was in that manual for being a "simple" owner's manual.

[zad0030]

All of this over a stupid booklet.

What is the life or death situation that you need the service manual for anyway? Why isn't the user's manual good enough?

[Fiveflat]

I'm the Pilot. hmm...don't know what I said that would make you think WABoating is the Pilot. But I have tried to relate what I face in the commercial pilot world and trying to have a better understanding of mechanical things and how WABoating's experiences have been. How I have had to let the deadhorse go and just accept what is, is what it is. I am not saying a disagree with WABoating's complaints but I can also see PCM's side of the issue.

As a pilot we are trained from the first day to know the details of most everything. Then as you move up, things sometimes change and you can't get all you think you need or all you want to know about when you want it. The reason we are like this as pilots is when we sit down and get tested, it's an "anything goes" test. It's like being tested on everything you learned from grade 1 to present day. It's a very humbling experience. So when I (pilot embo) am asking for info it is to save my own a?? so I don't look like a fool. I can totally understand WABoating's idea of wanting to know all he can about the engine.

I have also indicated, gently that WABoating might want to ease off just a little. I understand completely his frustrations. Being told that it will happen and then following the rules and then finding out it won't happen that way or maybe not anyway. Seems like there might have been some miscommunition between WABoating and Tige/PCM. This happens, I just hope WABoating can release the strangle hold on this issue, learn all he can, share with us what he finds (because he does seem to be pretty knowledgable or at least askes some good questions) and enjoy the heck out of that awesome boat he just purchased.

We all have our demons guys...remember that.

Please let me know if I can clarify something I have said here or past. I don't want to give the wrong impression. I wish the Tige Family wasn't so spread out across the Country so we could enjoy sharing ideas and issues in person. But then it's good too that we are because that means Tige is hopefully growing and becoming more popular.

No no, WA has referenced aircraft in another thread and this thread when he mentioned "gentleman pilots"
But as you know, pilots are not allowed to do anything more than simple preventative maintenance on their own aircraft unless they are a certified repairman.
I just assumed that his references meant he was a pilot as well.

[skyski_tige]

The thing is, this is really easy for PCM to solve! It's not like "We promised you a specific boat, but we accidentally shipped it to someone else and now it's gone and there's nothing we can do about it." It's just another copy of a standard service manual they already have.

PCM can fix this. Just sell me the service manual like they promised. It's really that easy, and it would show good faith on the part of PCM to keep a promise to a customer.

Dude... Again... you probably would have done better if this was not so public. You are just digging deeper and deeper. If there is an issue in the future, I would not expect for them to bend over backwards to help you. You are starting sound like a big whiner...

It would be funny if you got the manuals and then there was a typo and you did something stupid and killed your boat...

[mneal]

This is an interesting thread. I have bought a factory manual for every complex mechanical thing I have ever owned, even while under factroy warranty. Knowledge is power. I have no idea why PCM would make such a policy. If a shade tree guy wants to buy a service manual and have at whatever task they choose to tackle with gusto and ultimately do more harm then good why is that their (PCM) concern? If I screw it up and then take to it to Dom or whomever to fix it the failures I caused are simply not covered, it's easy. I have to admit, I am not in them market for a new power plant(or boat) but this policy would negativity effect my likelihood of owning a PCM powered product.

Dom, you are by far above and beyond well above the "average " dealer/technician. I mean no disrespect to you personally and I wouldn't hesitate to have you perform any duties on anything I owned. You have earned that trust and respect thru your actions but my general belief is nobody typically cares about my "stuff" as much I do (the guy who owns it). You know what they call the stupid guys that BARELY graduated from a substandard medical school? They call him/her doctor and that fact is paramount until trust is proven. Same holds true for a marine tech, plumber, electrician, etc. I had no idea your wife was an ME. I am one of those engineer types and I would challenge you to gather up a handful of those "factory trained " PCM guys (not you or your guys, I am speaking generically) and lets do a systematic troubleshoot and/or problem solving test. Maybe me and WABoating are the rare cases but to say I am not "worthy " of owning technical information related to a product I purchased is ridiculous.

Sorry for the rant, the pile on to WABoating asking for information irritated me and besides...there is not much on TV. :-)
:-)

[IDBoating]

Ill let ya know.

Thanks, I sincerely appreciate it. Nobody wants to resolve this more than me!

[91Terminator]

I understand your frustration. I share it, believe me.

By the way, there might be something you can do here. This is straight from this thread:



Maybe as the selling dealer you will have more effect than my local dealer. After all, PCM themselves has said right here that you can order the service manual for me.

So I'm following their instructions and formally requesting that you order an EX-343 CAT factory service manual for me. Can you do that? Please let me know.

Thanks!

Ill let ya know.

[lightning59]

the folks at skidim.com are hooked up pretty tight with the folks at PCM, give them a shot..just a thought.

[IDBoating]

I was under the understanding that you had gotten everything that PCM has available to their customers. So i apologize for what i have said, and i guess rant on there is nothing more i can do here.

I understand your frustration. I share it, believe me.

By the way, there might be something you can do here. This is straight from this thread:

The dealer that you are purchasing the boat from will be able to order the service manual for you.

Maybe as the selling dealer you will have more effect than my local dealer. After all, PCM themselves has said right here that you can order the service manual for me.

So I'm following their instructions and formally requesting that you order an EX-343 CAT factory service manual for me. Can you do that? Please let me know.

Thanks!

[IDBoating]

Being told that it will happen and then following the rules and then finding out it won't happen that way

The thing is, this is really easy for PCM to solve! It's not like "We promised you a specific boat, but we accidentally shipped it to someone else and now it's gone and there's nothing we can do about it." It's just another copy of a standard service manual they already have.

PCM can fix this. Just sell me the service manual like they promised. It's really that easy, and it would show good faith on the part of PCM to keep a promise to a customer.

[91Terminator]

I don't have any PCM service manuals, no.

I have the owner's manual. No surprise there - you gave it to me when I purchased the boat.

This entire thread is about the SERVICE manual. Not the owner's manual. Not the parts list. Not a marketing catalog. The SERVICE manual, shop manual, whatever you want to call it. I've been very clear about that. Here's a quote from one of my earliest messages on this thread:



Pretty hard to misunderstand what I meant there.

PCM promised me I could buy the service manual through my dealer. Right here on this thread. That's also pretty hard to misunderstand.

You want this thread to end? Here's how: Encourage PCM to keep their promise. Sell me the service manual like they promised.

Well unfortunately i do not have that kind of power. I was under the understanding that you had gotten everything that PCM has available to their customers. So i apologize for what i have said, and i guess rant on there is nothing more i can do here.

[IDBoating]

So you dont have any PCM Manuals???

I don't have any PCM service manuals, no.

I have the owner's manual. No surprise there - you gave it to me when I purchased the boat.

This entire thread is about the SERVICE manual. Not the owner's manual. Not the parts list. Not a marketing catalog. The SERVICE manual, shop manual, whatever you want to call it. I've been very clear about that. Here's a quote from one of my earliest messages on this thread:

I want a factory service manual for the EX-343 CAT. Not the owner/operator manual (I have that in printed and PDF form). I want the actual service manual that is used when working on the engine.

Pretty hard to misunderstand what I meant there.

PCM promised me I could buy the service manual through my dealer. Right here on this thread. That's also pretty hard to misunderstand.

You want this thread to end? Here's how: Encourage PCM to keep their promise. Sell me the service manual LIKE THEY PROMISED.

[91Terminator]

I explained above. I'll copy a portion of it here again:



Shorter version: PCM lied to me.

But they can easily fix things: Just do what they promised and sell me the service manual. That's all I'm asking: That they KEEP THEIR PROMISE.

So you dont have any PCM Manuals???

[embo]

It's not the fact that you want to learn more, for me it's just the fact that you continue to bash PCM over their company policy and procedure.
I'm not saying I agree with their policy and procedure all that much either, but it is what it is and if I don't like it to the point it makes me angry, then why own one at all?

You refer to aircraft more than once in this thread. Are you a pilot? Do you perform maintenance on your aircraft yourself?

I'm the Pilot. hmm...don't know what I said that would make you think WABoating is the Pilot. But I have tried to relate what I face in the commercial pilot world and trying to have a better understanding of mechanical things and how WABoating's experiences have been. How I have had to let the deadhorse go and just accept what is, is what it is. I am not saying a disagree with WABoating's complaints but I can also see PCM's side of the issue.

As a pilot we are trained from the first day to know the details of most everything. Then as you move up, things sometimes change and you can't get all you think you need or all you want to know about when you want it. The reason we are like this as pilots is when we sit down and get tested, it's an "anything goes" test. It's like being tested on everything you learned from grade 1 to present day. It's a very humbling experience. So when I (pilot embo) am asking for info it is to save my own a?? so I don't look like a fool. I can totally understand WABoating's idea of wanting to know all he can about the engine.

I have also indicated, gently that WABoating might want to ease off just a little. I understand completely his frustrations. Being told that it will happen and then following the rules and then finding out it won't happen that way or maybe not anyway. Seems like there might have been some miscommunition between WABoating and Tige/PCM. This happens, I just hope WABoating can release the strangle hold on this issue, learn all he can, share with us what he finds (because he does seem to be pretty knowledgable or at least askes some good questions) and enjoy the heck out of that awesome boat he just purchased.

We all have our demons guys...remember that.

Please let me know if I can clarify something I have said here or past. I don't want to give the wrong impression. I wish the Tige Family wasn't so spread out across the Country so we could enjoy sharing ideas and issues in person. But then it's good too that we are because that means Tige is hopefully growing and becoming more popular.