ANGRY at PCM Engine Group...

[IDBoating]

I dont see what PCM has done here that they deserve the bad mouthing they are getting handed?

I explained above. I'll copy a portion of it here again:

I asked PCM directly to sell me the manual, and they said their "policy" is to order it through a dealer and we'll even help the dealer get the manual for you. So I go to the dealer, who is more than willing to help, and THEN the "policy" changes from a promise to sell me the manual to "No, we were just kidding, we really won't sell it to you".

Shorter version: PCM lied to me.

But they can easily fix things: Just do what they promised and sell me the service manual. That's all I'm asking: That they KEEP THEIR PROMISE.

[91Terminator]

It's more than that. I also don't appreciate being given the old "bait and switch". You may remember the following from earlier in this thread:



Several here chastised me for not following PCM's instructions. So I did - I went to the local PCM dealer. After all, PCM stated very clearly and very publicly right here in this thread that the dealer would "be happy to order the manual for you" and "even have it drop shipped". Indeed, in a PM I was even told:



So... I asked PCM directly to sell me the manual, and they said their "policy" is to order it through a dealer and we'll even help the dealer get the manual for you. So I go to the dealer, who is more than willing to help, and THEN the "policy" changes from a promise to sell me the manual to "No, we were just kidding, we really won't sell it to you".

I've been very clear from the start about what manual I want and my willingness to pay for it. I acknowledge that I wasn't following their dealer policy at first. I have corrected that. I followed their instructions. I went to the dealer. The dealer wants to order the manual. But now that I'm doing what PCM specifically told me to do, the story changes.

So tell me... is that how you want to be treated? Would you be pleased if a vendor, or a dealer, or a manufacturer, had promised to do something if you followed their instructions, but when you did they failed to keep their promise?

Am I wrong to expect PCM to keep their promises? I'm the one who should be apologizing? Really?
*
*
*

so are you saying that you have no PCM manuals?

So you want the customer to apologize for trying to become informed, and in doing so, support a company and their product?

Not once did the words apologize for trying to be informed come form me. I said apologize for ripping apart the company. i never said support them, that is his choice, he can like them or dislike them (he said i really do like them and their products.) not me, all i said was apologize for blaming them for being different.


I dont see what PCM has done here that they deserve the bad mouthing they are getting handed? Show me and i will apologize for what i have said. Not trying to argue just trying to get this all straightened out and end this thread.

[islander033]

...Do us all a favor and apologize to PCM ...

So you want the customer to apologize for trying to become informed, and in doing so, support a company and their product?

[IDBoating]

apologize to PCM and say that you dont agree with their policy but they are a great company with great products

It's more than that. I also don't appreciate being given the old "bait and switch". You may remember the following from earlier in this thread:

We have a large dealer network that should be more than happy to order the manual for you if that is what you would like. If necessary they may even have it dropped shipped to your home.

Several here chastised me for not following PCM's instructions. So I did - I went to the local PCM dealer. After all, PCM stated very clearly and very publicly right here in this thread that the dealer would "be happy to order the manual for you" and "even have it drop shipped". Indeed, in a PM I was even told:

Who is the dealer, that way I can help them with finding the manual.

So... I asked PCM directly to sell me the manual, and they said their "policy" is to order it through a dealer and we'll even help the dealer get the manual for you. So I go to the dealer, who is more than willing to help, and THEN the "policy" changes from a promise to sell me the manual to "No, we were just kidding, we really won't sell it to you".

I've been very clear from the start about what manual I want and my willingness to pay for it. I acknowledge that I wasn't following their dealer policy at first. I have corrected that. I followed their instructions. I went to the dealer. The dealer wants to order the manual. But now that I'm doing what PCM specifically told me to do, the story changes.

So tell me... is that how you want to be treated? Would you be pleased if a vendor, or a dealer, or a manufacturer, had promised to do something if you followed their instructions, but when you did they failed to keep their promise?

Am I wrong to expect PCM to keep their promises? I'm the one who should be apologizing? Really?
*
*
*

[91Terminator]

I like their products. I really do.

I like those employees with whom I've spoken so far.

I'm not ripping them apart, I'm just asking to purchase a manual. I want to learn instead of being ignorant.

Why is it wrong to want to learn more about my $10,000 engine?

Its not wrong we arent saying that just take it easy on PCM. Do us all a favor and apologize to PCM and say that you dont agree with their policy but they are a great company with great products and then end this thread and move one.

[IDBoating]

Because PCM has done nothing wrong and your ripping them apart.

I like their products. I really do.

I like those employees with whom I've spoken so far.

I'm not ripping them apart, I'm just asking to purchase a manual. I want to learn instead of being ignorant.

Why is it wrong to want to learn more about my $10,000 engine?

[IDBoating]

You refer to aircraft more than once in this thread. Are you a pilot?

No.

[IDBoating]

I think you should probably sell your PCM powered Tige to someone who will just enjoy the boat and not be angry at the engine mfr because they won't give them a service manual.

In other words, "Smile, shut up, and don't ask too many questions."

[Fiveflat]

To keep this simple, I'll ask again in a standalone message:

Why am I the "bad guy" for wanting to learn more about my $10,000 engine?

It's not the fact that you want to learn more, for me it's just the fact that you continue to bash PCM over their company policy and procedure.
I'm not saying I agree with their policy and procedure all that much either, but it is what it is and if I don't like it to the point it makes me angry, then why own one at all?

You refer to aircraft more than once in this thread. Are you a pilot? Do you perform maintenance on your aircraft yourself?

[91Terminator]

To keep this simple, I'll ask again in a standalone message:

Why am I the "bad guy" for wanting to learn more about my $10,000 engine?

Because PCM has done nothing wrong and your ripping them apart.

[IDBoating]

I don't settle for ignorance, it's a small block chevy engine which I have been working on for 20 years now and I can figure out pretty much everything that I would need to know about it in less than 5 minutes without a service manual. If there's something wrong with it that I can't figure out, I will call my dealer or post it up on the forums and see if I can get help to figure it out but based on what I have seen from PCM and Marine Power, the engines are very solid and I probably won't ever have to do that.

Then they have nothing to hide, and should be willing to sell the service manual if someone like me is foolish and ignorant enough to be willing to pay cash for it.

[IDBoating]

To keep this simple, I'll ask again in a standalone message:

Why am I the "bad guy" for wanting to learn more about my $10,000 engine?

[Timmy!]

I don't settle for ignorance, it's a small block chevy engine which I have been working on for 20 years now and I can figure out pretty much everything that I would need to know about it in less than 5 minutes without a service manual. If there's something wrong with it that I can't figure out, I will call my dealer or post it up on the forums and see if I can get help to figure it out but based on what I have seen from PCM and Marine Power, the engines are very solid and I probably won't ever have to do that.

[IDBoating]

I dont understand??? What exactly are you looking for that you think other companies will give you?

As I replied to your Dad, above:

-----
Most companies welcome intense customer interest, because the more a customer knows about their product the more enthusiastic they become about those products. This leads to positive word-of-mouth advertising, the very best PR a company can possibly receive.

As an example of that, look at the fan clubs that exist for various automobile brands and models. The manufacturers actively encourage such activities because they promote brand loyalty, and generate new sales from both existing and new customers. All such products have warranties when new, too.

Let's consider Tige here. They are very responsive. They strongly support this very website (created by owners, not by the company, right?) to the point of even promoting it in their literature. They're not afraid to share technical data - when I asked about installing ballast they even shipped me the factory hull drawings showing where they install the thru-hulls for the factory ballast system (amongst a whole bunch of other technical documentation). And guess what - Tige has a warranty, too. A darned good one.

Supporting customers is the norm. PCM's position is the rare exception. No matter what reasons they give, the bottom line is that they are refusing to provide what the vast majority of other companies in similar markets willingly sell or even give away for free. I'm not asking for the formula for Coca-Cola; this isn't trade secret stuff. This is industry standard documentation.

[IDBoating]

My 05 has a PCM engine as an upgraded option back then. I love it am happy to see them in all Tige's now.

I am too, but do not like being kept in the dark. I'm amazed people seem willing to be kept ignorant while they shell out $10K for an engine.