My new RZX2 - wake is terrible - what am I doing wrong?

[UNSTUCK]

Good to hear Brent. And you should have kicked us all out of here a long time ago.

[Zackdogg]

Haha!! I felt kinda bad about it turning in to that, but figured with that bad actuator talk, it was pretty fitting anyways..

Glad to hear it!! Having it go bad the first time out has to be an “oh ****, why did I buy this boat” kind of moment.. I have realized that, for the most part, if you load any ballast and go 4-4, you’ll have some kind of wave, or, at least one, actuator is bad.. it’s only been proven about 164 times on this forum!!

Enjoy that wave the rest of the summer!! Hoping it lasts until, at least November for all of us with winters. Still jealous as hell for all the year round guys, except I’d be spending $20k a year in fuel, and putting 250-300 hours on!!


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[BrentB]

Haha!! I felt kinda bad about it turning in to that, but figured with that bad actuator talk, it was pretty fitting anyways..

No worries Zack. The GSA upgrade is very enticing. Can’t wait to hear how it goes on your boat. It’s funny how a little do-it-yourself action on your own boat gives you the bug to want to do more. If you have an awesome experience with the GSA install and result, maybe I’ll look into it next year!

[Bamer]

But yes, they are kind of a one size fits all. I'm not sure if that is good or bad. But it seems all the boat builders use their same systems for every size boat they make.

Since these hulls are so sensitive to small changes in weight and roll, I find it unlikely that a one size fits all tab can put every hull into that’s hull optimal yaw and roll.....right? Or maybe the optimal yaw angle is not a function of hull design?


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[UNSTUCK]

Since these hulls are so sensitive to small changes in weight and roll, I find it unlikely that a one size fits all tab can put every hull into that’s hull optimal yaw and roll.....right? Or maybe the optimal yaw angle is not a function of hull design?

That all depends on what a particular boat needs. My tabs alone can roll me about 10 degrees and pitch me well past 10 degrees. A smaller tab on my boat may make getting those numbers more difficult. So far, my best wave was at about 3 roll and 8-9 pitch bow high. I could probably due with a smaller tab just fine.

*WARNING OPINION AHEAD*

I have said this before but I don't buy into all the science and mass engineering going into these systems. I mean, I'm sure companies are working on it and testing theories, but I doubt it's on a much bigger scale than a lot of us have done with our own suck gates and other homemade surf systems. Surf wave 101 tells us we need two things to make a wave: displacement and delayed convergence of the wake. Do that and you're surfing. Those two things make up probably 98% of the wave we have today. All the new technology that is driving up prices is accounting for the other 2%. The proof is there when someone takes a $20k boat, bags it and puts on a suck gate and out surfs a six figure boat. Maybe one of these days I'll test that theory more in depth by getting my wave dialed in with lots of weight and my GSAish tabs, then turning surf off and putting on my OG V1.0 suck gate I built out of a clear plastic (with a hand painted flower vase on it no less) cutting board I bought at a second hand store. When I first tested my new (homemade) tabs and the wave was not impressive it was suggested that maybe the tabs were not made right. Turns out I just needed more displacement. I did that and the wave drastically improved. I'll further test that today with the largest crew yet, and 600 pounds of lead a friend is letting me borrow. Maybe I'll take my suck gate with me today. Dare I put it on a six figure boat?

[Zackdogg]

No worries Zack. The GSA upgrade is very enticing. Can’t wait to hear how it goes on your boat. It’s funny how a little do-it-yourself action on your own boat gives you the bug to want to do more. If you have an awesome experience with the GSA install and result, maybe I’ll look into it next year!

I’ll keep everyone posted, on progress.. if I can get those plates from Jason, the rest is pretty easy. I’ve been a guy that mods the majority of my bikes, cars, and trucks, so the boat may as well be on that list. Talking to the guys that have been the most help on this forum, to me, and having them say it makes a difference in the wake, is all I really need to hear..


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[Zackdogg]

That all depends on what a particular boat needs. My tabs alone can roll me about 10 degrees and pitch me well past 10 degrees. A smaller tab on my boat may make getting those numbers more difficult. So far, my best wave was at about 3 roll and 8-9 pitch bow high. I could probably due with a smaller tab just fine.

*WARNING OPINION AHEAD*

I have said this before but I don't buy into all the science and mass engineering going into these systems. I mean, I'm sure companies are working on it and testing theories, but I doubt it's on a much bigger scale than a lot of us have done with our own suck gates and other homemade surf systems. Surf wave 101 tells us we need two things to make a wave: displacement and delayed convergence of the wake. Do that and you're surfing. Those two things make up probably 98% of the wave we have today. All the new technology that is driving up prices is accounting for the other 2%. The proof is there when someone takes a $20k boat, bags it and puts on a suck gate and out surfs a six figure boat. Maybe one of these days I'll test that theory more in depth by getting my wave dialed in with lots of weight and my GSAish tabs, then turning surf off and putting on my OG V1.0 suck gate I built out of a clear plastic (with a hand painted flower vase on it no less) cutting board I bought at a second hand store. When I first tested my new (homemade) tabs and the wave was not impressive it was suggested that maybe the tabs were not made right. Turns out I just needed more displacement. I did that and the wave drastically improved. I'll further test that today with the largest crew yet, and 600 pounds of lead a friend is letting me borrow. Maybe I'll take my suck gate with me today. Dare I put it on a six figure boat?

How’d you do with more weight this weekend?? Did you try the suck gate on there? I’ve kind of wondered how a shaper would perform on a buried RZX.


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[Zackdogg]

That all depends on what a particular boat needs. My tabs alone can roll me about 10 degrees and pitch me well past 10 degrees. A smaller tab on my boat may make getting those numbers more difficult. So far, my best wave was at about 3 roll and 8-9 pitch bow high. I could probably due with a smaller tab just fine.

*WARNING OPINION AHEAD*

I have said this before but I don't buy into all the science and mass engineering going into these systems. I mean, I'm sure companies are working on it and testing theories, but I doubt it's on a much bigger scale than a lot of us have done with our own suck gates and other homemade surf systems. Surf wave 101 tells us we need two things to make a wave: displacement and delayed convergence of the wake. Do that and you're surfing. Those two things make up probably 98% of the wave we have today. All the new technology that is driving up prices is accounting for the other 2%. The proof is there when someone takes a $20k boat, bags it and puts on a suck gate and out surfs a six figure boat. Maybe one of these days I'll test that theory more in depth by getting my wave dialed in with lots of weight and my GSAish tabs, then turning surf off and putting on my OG V1.0 suck gate I built out of a clear plastic (with a hand painted flower vase on it no less) cutting board I bought at a second hand store. When I first tested my new (homemade) tabs and the wave was not impressive it was suggested that maybe the tabs were not made right. Turns out I just needed more displacement. I did that and the wave drastically improved. I'll further test that today with the largest crew yet, and 600 pounds of lead a friend is letting me borrow. Maybe I'll take my suck gate with me today. Dare I put it on a six figure boat?

How’d you do with more weight this weekend?? Did you try the suck gate on there? I’ve kind of wondered how a shaper would perform on a buried RZX.


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[UNSTUCK]

I estimate we had 1100 in people weight and then had 600 in lead. I started out with 300 up front and 300 in the surf locker. I needed to add two people to the bow to get to surf speed faster. My pitch was 10-11. Adding the two people brought it back to 8-9. The wave wasn’t any better than last time out. I messed with lots of settings. It was good and fun. Just not the same. I moved weight all around the surf locker. No real change. I took it out of the locker and put it on the main floor. That really helped get us going, but no change to the wave. In the end we put 500 in the bow, 100 in the surf locker and all the people in the back of the boat. Still a fun wave but not as much push as the trip before. 360’s came pretty easy. I was really working on airs and I’m getting close. Had the board out of the water several times but the fins stayed in. The fins did leave once as I felt the board unhook from the water get away from me. Falling while surfing is more enjoyable to me than any other sport that I can think of...well besides sky diving.

[Zackdogg]

We ran a huge crew this weekend, to the point I couldn’t plane, again, fully weighted.. I could just hit 11 while surfing, which I’m riding 12.4, most of the time these days.. I ended up with 600# bow lead, full bow water, 800# lead rider side in the locker, 100% surfside, and 60% offside. Regular side was still kinda meh, but my goofy wave was maybe the best wave we’ve ever had. The boat was sunk, for sure..

Also had some killer morning glass, so we pulled the wakeboards out for a pre-breakfast set, caught a front edge trying to do a 360, and **** whipped my face into the water.. peeled my eyelids, felt like Tyson caught me in the jaw, and I was sure I broke my radial and ulna, for like 2 minutes.. soooo, I fully agree on how much nicer it is to wad on my surfboard!!!


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[UNSTUCK]

Yes, surfing for the win.

[Germaine Marine]

That all depends on what a particular boat needs. My tabs alone can roll me about 10 degrees and pitch me well past 10 degrees. A smaller tab on my boat may make getting those numbers more difficult. So far, my best wave was at about 3 roll and 8-9 pitch bow high. I could probably due with a smaller tab just fine.

*WARNING OPINION AHEAD*

I have said this before but I don't buy into all the science and mass engineering going into these systems. I mean, I'm sure companies are working on it and testing theories, but I doubt it's on a much bigger scale than a lot of us have done with our own suck gates and other homemade surf systems. Surf wave 101 tells us we need two things to make a wave: displacement and delayed convergence of the wake. Do that and you're surfing. Those two things make up probably 98% of the wave we have today. All the new technology that is driving up prices is accounting for the other 2%. The proof is there when someone takes a $20k boat, bags it and puts on a suck gate and out surfs a six figure boat. Maybe one of these days I'll test that theory more in depth by getting my wave dialed in with lots of weight and my GSAish tabs, then turning surf off and putting on my OG V1.0 suck gate I built out of a clear plastic (with a hand painted flower vase on it no less) cutting board I bought at a second hand store. When I first tested my new (homemade) tabs and the wave was not impressive it was suggested that maybe the tabs were not made right. Turns out I just needed more displacement. I did that and the wave drastically improved. I'll further test that today with the largest crew yet, and 600 pounds of lead a friend is letting me borrow. Maybe I'll take my suck gate with me today. Dare I put it on a six figure boat?

Agree to disagree

Lets use GSA as an example vs Taps 3 or any other trim tab that needs to be deployed north of 25 degrees.

Gsa is able to attain roughly 2x the controlled yaw as other tabs all while needing to be deployed at a fraction that the others are. You tell me that science doesent matter and Ill tell you to take a harder look. A tab that can produce 2x the yaw plus at 6 degrees of deployment vs a system that needs nearly 30 is a massive difference. The boat can displace significantly more water. That is a big deal, its proven by science and its why it matters.

Do suck gates work? Absolutely! If you dont mind having a non adjustable system that yaws the boat to the moon IE (Malibu) then its prob the best option out. Want a world class wave that is adjustable, has power in a defined area etc? Their is an option for that.

The better question is what does each individual desire. My answer? It prob will depend on the skill level and age of the person you ask. Early on? "If I can get good push and go ropeless and do some spins im good" Later on "I want a smooth transition at the front, a wave that carries its length to the rear for deep recoveries and a wave that has a huge runup area that isnt too steep so that I can generate enough speed on the approach"

I liken it to wine, I probably couldnt tell you the difference between a 5 dollar bottle and a 500 dollar bottle. But their are people that can.

Perspective and taste changes as skill increases. Again I think it depends on who you are asking. For the masses, probably wouldnt be able to tell a big enough difference to verbalize it. Get a keenan Fleegel or a young competitive kid trying to make it and the wants and needs become very poignant and easily verbalized.

I would be curious what your opinion might be next year as you progress as a rider.

[akdoc]

How’d you do with more weight this weekend?? Did you try the suck gate on there? I’ve kind of wondered how a shaper would perform on a buried RZX.


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My brother has a 18 RZX3 and runs all ballast plus plug and play full and 500 pounds of lead, he put a suck gate on the side and claimed the wave was massive and much longer than just the taps 3 wave set up correctly. He does drain just a bit off the non surf side down to about 80% or so.

Could we see a GSA or taps 3 set up with the malibu surf gate type system all on 1 boat in the future??

[UNSTUCK]

Could we see a GSA or taps 3 set up with the malibu surf gate type system all on 1 boat in the future??

I don't see what the point would be. Unless a gate is better for, say skim, and GSA is better for surf.

[skiguy]

We ran a huge crew this weekend, to the point I couldn’t plane, again, fully weighted.. I could just hit 11 while surfing, which I’m riding 12.4, most of the time these days.. I ended up with 600# bow lead, full bow water, 800# lead rider side in the locker, 100% surfside, and 60% offside. Regular side was still kinda meh, but my goofy wave was maybe the best wave we’ve ever had. The boat was sunk, for sure..

Also had some killer morning glass, so we pulled the wakeboards out for a pre-breakfast set, caught a front edge trying to do a 360, and **** whipped my face into the water.. peeled my eyelids, felt like Tyson caught me in the jaw, and I was sure I broke my radial and ulna, for like 2 minutes.. soooo, I fully agree on how much nicer it is to wad on my surfboard!!!


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Exactly why I quit wakeboarding. Caught one too many front edges... my old body can’t take that abuse anymore. Surfing it is.


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