Speedset will not adjust

[IDBoating]

ChrisNow: Before you reassemble and reinstall your panel into your boat, could you please measure where your snap domes are located? I'm wondering if there's sufficient clearance to have a "one size fits both" PCB that would work for (your) older style rubber overlays (which expect three snap domes) and (JM's) newer style overlays (that expect 5-7).

We can use the four small mounting screw holes as reference points. Measuring from the nearest two of those to each snap dome will allow me to duplicate where yours are on JM's unit and see if clearances are sufficient.

Thanks!

[ChrisSnow]

I agree a crowd funded project could be the answer.

Though as we already know there is a few variations and they wont be a single drop in module that's compatible across the board.for example my AccuSet does not have a rubber membrane but has a printed overlay and the bezel includes some extra detailing to frame the switches.

I think a complete replacement that requires zero reuse of components might be the answer, at least that way we could be confident that the end user would have a functional product, it would costs slightly more though.

I think the price could be better than $200 at 100 off quantities, even in volumes of 10 it could still be viable at a reasonable price.

other than the cost of a few prototypes which would be relatively low the final cost would only really depend on the volume ordered.

I personally would rather use something like the switches I linked above, I've never been a fan of tactile or snap dome switches especially in harsh conditions, these should last forever! the only downside is they would need to be relatively close together to get them through the hull cutout.

[ChrisSnow]

Sure I will do some measurements, We seem to manage to cross post an awful lot in this thread!

[IDBoating]

Keeps everything on this topic in a single convenient spot.

[IDBoating]

there is a few variations and they wont be a single drop in module that's compatible across the board.for example my AccuSet does not have a rubber membrane but has a printed overlay and the bezel includes some extra detailing to frame the switches.

Can you post a photo of those pieces? By "printed overlay" do you mean a vinyl sheet that lies over the top of the snap domes and FPC?

I think a complete replacement that requires zero reuse of components might be the answer, at least that way we could be confident that the end user would have a functional product, it would costs slightly more though.

In an ideal world sure, but my goal is to have a drop-in replacement with minimum changes to the dash, wiring, etc. Virtually anyone can handle six screws and one connector, and the result would be an identical appearance with reliability that will outlive the rest of the boat. Doing a "complete replacement" increases the complexity and cost by requiring the development of a front panel (with appearance issues), mounting hardware and method, potential dash cutting, etc. etc. IMHO simpler is better for this particular project. Obviously others may disagree, and I think we're providing enough documentation in this thread that those folks can craft up their ideal solution!

[ChrisSnow]

Can you post a photo of those pieces? By "printed overlay" do you mean a vinyl sheet that lies over the top of the snap domes and FPC?

here you go, yes you are correct, its a self adhesive sheet that goes over the top of the final adhesive sheet that covers the snap domes.
IMAG0013.jpgIMAG0014.jpgIMAG0015.jpg

In an ideal world sure, but my goal is to have a drop-in replacement with minimum changes to the dash, wiring, etc. Virtually anyone can handle six screws and one connector, and the result would be an identical appearance with reliability that will outlive the rest of the boat. Doing a "complete replacement" increases the complexity and cost by requiring the development of a front panel (with appearance issues), mounting hardware and method, potential dash cutting, etc. etc. IMHO simpler is better for this particular project. Obviously others may disagree, and I think we're providing enough documentation in this thread that those folks can craft up their ideal solution!

I was thinking of something that had the same connector and reused the same mounting holes and dash cut. probably an oval of silk screen printed stainless or black anodised aluminium. same dimensions as the SpeedSet.
Were probably giving more info that anyone else wants! but like you say it's valuable info for anyone in future.

I assume you are thinking of reusing just the bezel and membrane? throwing away the rear moulding etc?
how were you thinking of mounting the bolts? if they were mounted onto the PCB they would need to be countersunk?
unless we use 2 pcb's stacked and a SMT stack connector it would have to all be surface mount, which probably isn't ideal for the 12 way connector(if they even do a SMT version)

I don't have many photos of the model you have could you take a couple of the rear and front once assembled?

looking at the photos I have seen of yours my enable is slightly off centred vertically, a bit lower so that the LED's and switch as a group is centred if that makes sense.

a common board might be possible, you would need to non fit the back light LED's as there's no clearance for them.

[IDBoating]

here you go, yes you are correct, its a self adhesive sheet that goes over the top of the final adhesive sheet that covers the snap domes.

Any reason that same sheet couldn't be applied over a PCB with snap domes on it? I understand your later point about LED's but perhaps people could cut those away if they have your type of panel.

I was thinking of something that had the same connector and reused the same mounting holes and dash cut. probably an oval of silk screen printed stainless or black anodised aluminium. same dimensions as the SpeedSet.

So a sort of surface mount, then? These existing oval panels don't have a full sized "cutout" in the dash, then surface mount to it.

how were you thinking of mounting the bolts? if they were mounted onto the PCB they would need to be countersunk?

Not for the later style of rubber sheet. There's a relief area there. I know of a flat-top screw style that would fit nicely in that space.

unless we use 2 pcb's stacked and a SMT stack connector it would have to all be surface mount, which probably isn't ideal for the 12 way connector(if they even do a SMT version)

No. Just no! We're trying to IMPROVE this, remember?!? Domes on the front side, SMT's on the back. Connector is an issue but could flush grind its pins after soldering. Allowing for the labor is one reason I'm estimating $150-200 delivered. It's easy to underestimate the costs on something like this and lose your shirt. That said, $1250 is outrageous.

I don't have many photos of the model you have could you take a couple of the rear and front once assembled?

No problem, I'll take and post them in a bit.

[IDBoating]

here you go, yes you are correct, its a self adhesive sheet that goes over the top of the final adhesive sheet that covers the snap domes.

What's the back of that black frame look like? I presume four screw holes that match up to the ones in the FPC insert? Hopefully that "footprint" is the same on all units, and those mounting holes can be used across the years.

[Timmy!]

I'm in. I'm also willing to pay more money too. Think about it, a dealer's cost on this item is $850 and most dealer's aren't willing to part with it for that price, they are closer to the MSRP of $1,200. Without your alternative, I am paying a lot of $$$.

[IDBoating]

As I texted to JM... the patient is out of surgery and everything went well!

I didn't want to disassemble his panel any more than necessary. The reason his side buttons don't work is that the flex circuit has lost continuity with the +12VDC, so the snap domes don't have +12VDC to switch to the output pins when they are actuated.

The four snap domes for the two side areas share a common trace that runs around their four outer contact pads. Fixing this panel meant getting +12VDC to that shared outer trace. However, soldering to flex circuit is a risky game... while I've done it, you can easily melt the backing or lift the incredibly thin conductor(s) or all sorts of problems.

So, I decided to bypass the flex circuit entirely. +12VDC going to the flex circuit comes in on pin 8 of the flex connector, which is buried under the potting material. Some careful work with a Dremel tool (to reveal the pin without grinding it away) carved away enough of the potting material to give access to the rear of pin 8 on the connector. It's hard to tell from this photo, but that's a nice little lunar crater around the pin. It looks melted here, but it's actually not:
DremelHole.jpg

Then, I located a safe path through the potting material and drilled a 1/16th hole all the way through, from back to front. Now I had access to run a connection without interfering with the fit of the frame.

I soldered a section of 30 gauge rework wire to the back of pin 8 on the connector, and ran the other end of the wire through the hole:
FlexRepairBottom.jpg

Flipping the unit over, I carefully shaved away the overlays on one corner of one of the side snap domes. Then I tinned that corner, and soldered the wire to it:
FlexRepairTop.jpg

The result is a electrically and mechanically solid connection straight from +12VDC to the shared outer pads of the side snap domes. Once the soldered snap dome has +12VDC, it conveys +12VDC to the other snap domes via the same flex circuit traces that did so originally. Testing with a meter confirms proper operation on both sides with either or both of the snap domes in a given section.

Before sealing it up and shipping it back to JM, I've taken photos and high resolution scans of everything as well as caliper measurements of key dimensions, in case we decide to proceed with the aftermarket replacement board for these panels.

JM, I'll email or text you later today with the tracking number. Thanks for shipping this unit here!

EDIT: Finished testing after reassembly. All three buttons now work properly. Center button toggles between +12VDC and ground, others provide +12VDC during actuation. Should be ready for testing in JM's boat.

[travis5550]

this is awesome, can't wait till JM is able to test it! what would be your going rate for repeating this process on others if we ship to you with return postage prepaid?

[Timmy!]

Nice work!!!! This is so exciting to me!

[ChrisSnow]

Any reason that same sheet couldn't be applied over a PCB with snap domes on it? I understand your later point about LED's but perhaps people could cut those away if they have your type of panel.

that could work

So a sort of surface mount, then? These existing oval panels don't have a full sized "cutout" in the dash, then surface mount to it.

that's correct, the only disadvantage would be the switches would need to be in the centre section due to depth.

No. Just no! We're trying to IMPROVE this, remember?!? Domes on the front side, SMT's on the back. Connector is an issue but could flush grind its pins after soldering. Allowing for the labor is one reason I'm estimating $150-200 delivered. It's easy to underestimate the costs on something like this and lose your shirt. That said, $1250 is outrageous.

I guess both have disadvantages, I doubt you will be able to get the centre snap dome in place with the through hole connector there. my way should be robust enough, it could even be a through hole soldered header with pillars in the corners for rigidity too I'd also be wary of removing too much of the pin and risking pulling the barrel's out of the PCB.

nice work on the rework, I notice that your status LED's are wired so the driver is a current sink? mine is is definitely wired as a current source.

here's a few photos and scans,
I need to to do a proper drawing for dimensions but I do have them.
accuset.jpgIMAG0016.jpg

I think it might be handy to collate all these photos and info in a shared Google drive folder?

[IDBoating]

JM, as promised your panel is on its way back to you. USPS Priority Mail, 2 day delivery, the receipt says "Expected Delivery: Wed 05/20/15" so you should have plenty of time before Memorial Day weekend.

I'll send you the tracking number via PM.

Thanks!

[jmhatchett]

Tracking is on time guys, I should receive the unit tomorrow and I will get out to the boat and land test it. All the screen functions should still work even when not running and then I will for sure be going to the lake house for memorial so will take the boat back and report the final test outcomes.

Big shout out to WA he was too helpful and a great guy to work with!