Surf vs Skim

[Matt Garcia]

I'm playing devils advocate here, so don't take this personally G-Money, I really want to get an understanding of the general perception of boards. If we assume the criteria that Matt and Tequila propose:

"I always thought the skim style was shorter and thinner. This type of board was made for spins, airs, etc. The surf style board is longer and made for cruising and carving."

The board in the picture is 4'5" long, the average skim board (4-skim, Phase 5 Prop, Calibrated's) is 4'6" so this board is shorter and would then meet the one criteria, also...that's some pretty substantial air so I'm thinking it would also meet the criteria for tricks, spins and airs.

You feel it's a surf style though (and again, not busting your chops or Matt's or Tequila's, just trying to get an understanding of perceptions) would you list your reasons for drawing that conclusion, please?

I would also love to hear from Matt and Tequila on this.

Thanks again guys

I think that board is a more of a skim style. Maybe even a hybrid board?? My reasoning is because of the short length and it looks like it has the ability to break loose very quickly. It suited for a more aggressive trick style riding.

When I think of Skim Style I think of boards like a Phase 5 or a HL Broadcast.

For surfers I think of large cruisers like the 5' 11" Landlock or the larger Inland Surfer boards.

Thats my .2 cents. Which by the way I need a new surfer. Just haven't decided on what I want yet.

[dogbert]

I'd say it's surf style, bigger fins in the back. To me, skim style boards tend to be uniform from a surface shape perspective (even if the pads are different on one end than the other). Surf style boards won't have fins on both ends.

[NICKYPOO]

Hehehe. You guys are killin' me.

[dogbert]

Hehehe. You guys are killin' me.

And you're never get the credit you think you deserve

[Surfdad]

Wow, lots of divergant opinions. First off - we have a winner with Nick! That is the Bullet! I'm not sure that there is a right or wrong answer, but...I'd like to come to some form of consensus.

So how does this sound as the definition of a skimstyle board.

Less than 1 inch thick
Less than 5 feet in length
No more than 1 fin per end
Fin depth less than 2 inches

Everything else is considered a surfstyle board.

So technically, the board in the picture above is considered surf because it is a twin fin, the fin depth is 3.5" and the board's thickness was about 1.7"

All in favor say Aye?

[Tequilasun]

Wow, lots of divergant opinions. First off - we have a winner with Nick! That is the Bullet! I'm not sure that there is a right or wrong answer, but...I'd like to come to some form of consensus.

So how does this sound as the definition of a skimstyle board.

Less than 1 inch thick
Less than 5 feet in length
No more than 1 fin per end
Fin depth less than 2 inches

Everything else is considered a surfstyle board.

So technically, the board in the picture above is considered surf because it is a twin fin, the fin depth is 3.5" and the board's thickness was about 1.7"

All in favor say Aye?

Aye.

But I do wonder about your fin requirements. Are there not several skim style boards with 2 fins in the back, and 1 in the front?

Just curious.


I agree with Nick too, Run what you brung.

But to me, a poked out steezy ripper Carve or slash on a surf style board can look just as cool as say a BS 360 on Skim style board.

[Surfdad]

I think that everyone can agree that a Phase 5 prop, or the Calibrated Lovett Pro is a skim style board - single trailing fin around 1.5" depth, 5/8" thick and that is the standard. The Walzer is more of a hybrid shape and that has twin fins. When you do a shuv style move on that, it's MUCH harder than on a single fin board because the fins catch...I don't know, I still seeking opinions, none of this is carved in stone.

The problem with the 'ride what you brung' is that it is SO HARD to judge the difficulty of a maneuver. If a Josh Sleigh throws 3 feet of air, is that harder than a big spin on a Phase 5 prop? Is 1 foot of air on a P5 prop as hard as the aformentioned 3 feet on a Placebo?

In these dicussions, I literally can't get anyone to agree. At the world's consistently skimstyle riders have won and I'm not sure that these folks are TRULY significantly better than the likes of a Josh Sleigh.

[dogbert]

All in favor say Aye?

Hoorray for beer!

Oh wait, wrong thread...sorry guys.

Aye-Aye, matey!

[Tequilasun]

I think that everyone can agree that a Phase 5 prop, or the Calibrated Lovett Pro is a skim style board - single trailing fin around 1.5" depth, 5/8" thick and that is the standard. The Walzer is more of a hybrid shape and that has twin fins. When you do a shuv style move on that, it's MUCH harder than on a single fin board because the fins catch...I don't know, I still seeking opinions, none of this is carved in stone.

The problem with the 'ride what you brung' is that it is SO HARD to judge the difficulty of a maneuver. If a Josh Sleigh throws 3 feet of air, is that harder than a big spin on a Phase 5 prop? Is 1 foot of air on a P5 prop as hard as the aformentioned 3 feet on a Placebo?

In these dicussions, I literally can't get anyone to agree. At the world's consistently skimstyle riders have won and I'm not sure that these folks are TRULY significantly better than the likes of a Josh Sleigh.

I do not envy your problem.

It is certainly harder to throw tricks on a surf style board. A surf style board could be called a crutch to a certain level of riders as well.

[G-MONEY]

I think the tricks should be judged on trick and style only and leave it up to the rider to decide what board to ride to do the tricks...... I never heard of a snowboarder saying is not fair he using hard boots/ or his board is lighter than mine, so he can jump higher.....Everyone just needs to just use an hybrid board so the can do a little of everything...you don't see an alpine board in a half pipe but you use them both on snow....You don't see long boards in a half pipe......ya it would be harder to do the tricks but the tricks wouldn't be as good witch would make it boring to watch.......a 360 is a 360.... 3' air is 3' air......a shove it is a shove....... it no matter what board you ride.........just my .02

[Surfdad]

...and here is the counter to that argument again, I'm not busting anyone's chops. If little Jimmy comes in and all he can afford is an old surfboard, but he wants to compete...and he rides up against Drew Danielo, who is GIVEN boards, has an allowance of $500 a month and little Jimmy is RIPPING IT UP, but obviously his 6'2" surfboard isn't going to compare to the new Tex Phase 5. So...little Jimmy doesn't stand a chance. If Jimmy pulls a surface 3 on that 6'2" that IS harder than the surface 3 on the 4'6" skimmer...so, you can't just make it about "ride what you brung" if not everyone can afford the best and brighest. Of course, we are talking about the local grassroots contests here.

So many considerations - does anyone want to take this over for me? I am ssssssooooooooooo ready to delegate

[G-MONEY]

I agree its no fair thats why they have the minor leagues and BIG league.....


If you cant hang with the big boys get out of the way sorry........

Maybe lil Jimmy needs to do some networking and get sponsored if he's that good....

or ask Drew Danielo if he can use his board. I sure he wouldn't mind...

1. For the progression of the sport
2. True athletes want to compete against the best


Good luck with everything....

[dogbert]

...and here is the counter to that argument again, I'm not busting anyone's chops. If little Jimmy comes in and all he can afford is an old surfboard, but he wants to compete...and he rides up against Drew Danielo, who is GIVEN boards, has an allowance of $500 a month and little Jimmy is RIPPING IT UP, but obviously his 6'2" surfboard isn't going to compare to the new Tex Phase 5. So...little Jimmy doesn't stand a chance. If Jimmy pulls a surface 3 on that 6'2" that IS harder than the surface 3 on the 4'6" skimmer...so, you can't just make it about "ride what you brung" if not everyone can afford the best and brighest. Of course, we are talking about the local grassroots contests here.

So many considerations - does anyone want to take this over for me? I am ssssssooooooooooo ready to delegate

Why is it any different from wakeboarding? Each rider there rides a different board.

It sure sounds like there are different competitions, each suited better to one style of board vs. another. Why not have separate competitions, one better suited for skimskates and the other better suited for surf style?

And, no, I'm not volunteering.

[Surfdad]

Dogbert, I think that's what I want to do...separate the surf from the skim. The other side of the fence is like Nick points out and fully it's 50% of the folks, ride what you brung and stop whining!

[NICKYPOO]

So how does this sound as the definition of a skimstyle board.

Less than 1 inch thick
Less than 5 feet in length
No more than 1 fin per end
Fin depth less than 2 inches

Everything else is considered a surfstyle board.

So technically, the board in the picture above is considered surf because it is a twin fin, the fin depth is 3.5" and the board's thickness was about 1.7"

All in favor say Aye?

Neigh. You can't throw the Walzer in there just because it has twin fins. It's a straight up skim board with twins. Now we need 3 divisions, skim, surf and hybrid. I think maybe we're looking at this wrong. Obliviously enough people feel this argument is important enough to make a stink about it and I don't envy your position to have to decide between the two, but is there no other way to solve this paltry dilemma? Since the major PITA is scoring, I would start there. Seems to me that the judging, at this stage of wakesurfing contest evolution, is going to have to be subjective. I know that goes against creating the legitimacy of contest scoring on a national level to the powers that be, but I mean come on. As a potential competitor, I say bring it on. I can impress the judges more with my riding on my stick than you on yours no matter what you ride. Quit your crying and get out there and show us what you got. That's how I feel. If I were judging in this manner, I would score a surface 3 on a 6'2" G&S way higher than the same 3 on a P5. So that brings us "How much higher?" Well, I'm back to the 10 point system. Depending on the quality of the spin, I'd score the 3 on the P5 a 5. On the 6'2" G&S (wow, that's impressive) an 8.

Your turn.