Surf vs Skim

[Surfdad]

The group that complains is the group that isn't winning What has happened in the past, at various contests, is that when riders of fairly equal capability compete against each other, the one that throws the most tricks wins. Now...if one rider is strictly a one trick pony, they can only do say an air, or a shuv, but they can do that a bazillion times in a row...they would win. It's boring! So what happens, as we refine the judging system is that we start saying - ok ok ok, we LOVE your shuv, but after the 8th time in a row...we aren't going to score it. Same is true for the surfstyle rider throwing the 4th air in a row. EVERYONE hates me at that point However, we have to have a way to filter out the BEST most accomplished rider. If you attended the worlds, those pros are throwing multiple shuv's in a row, if you ONLY score the first one - guess who starts screaming? There aren't that many variations on a shuv and if you take away all but the first one from the skimstyle folks...they aren't very happy.

Right now, the surfstyle folks are at a disadvantage, just because you can't throw as many tricks on a surfboard in the equivalent amount of time, but if you start requiring the skimboard folks to abandon the repition they can't throw tricks with the same amplitude as a surfstyle rider and then THEY are disadvantaged.

I think that getting along means establishing a fair and equitable system of judging...I have to tell you Nick, it's BEYOND hard...and so far...no one seems to be stepping up to do more than complain Guess that's human nature, huh? ESPECIALLY if the folks complaining are losing

[NICKYPOO]

Sounds like we need to add a style factor into the scoring.

[Surfdad]

Hey Nick, for MOST of the contests outside of the INT League stuff, it's pretty subjective and there is a significant amount of style involved in the judging. What the judges do is count the number of tricks and then apply their own judgement to the run. I have them reach a consensus on the placement and give me a single ranking or score for each rider.

[dogbert]

What concerns me is that folks that complain because I offend them in some sense, WON'T turn around and hand out accolades when I do something that they are in favor of. People are funny.

Has the Dog volunteered yet? What is holding him up?

Don't worry, we'll still hang with you!

As for the volunteering, not sure you want a doped up dog

[Surfdad]

I'm bbbaaaaaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!

Ok, so we held the first division between surf and skim, but I made the mistake of expecting that by setting out the rules, folks would make an effort to respect them and try and work within the "spirit" of the rules.

Instead, the folks from Calibrated basically took a skimboard, jammed 2 - 2" fins on it and called it a surfboard In practice, it was a tie for first place between Jaime Lovett, professional skimmer and a professional surfer...Jaime won the tie breaker by having fewer falls in his run.

So, I'm back to the question, but now it's developing rules that will prevent a skimboard from entering the surfstyle class...and I got to thinking that maybe it's not an equipment issue at all.

The argument has been there are separate classes for skimboards and shortboards in the ocean, but the truth is that if a skimmer could paddle in to a wave and not exhaust himself in the process, there really isn't anything precluding that. So...the equipment that is being used is more a reflection of the environment and not an exclusionary policy.

In the surfstyle class Jaime did the same run and tricks as he did in the skimstyle class.

So...if I may ask my fellow Tige owners/surfers, should the rules reflect equipment restrictions, or is it more appropriate to restrict the tricks that will be judged in the surfstyle class?

Your opinions, please.

[G-MONEY]

Good luck........I would say equipment restrictions.

[NICKYPOO]

In the surfstyle class Jaime did the same run and tricks as he did in the skimstyle class.

So...if I may ask my fellow Tige owners/surfers, should the rules reflect equipment restrictions, or is it more appropriate to restrict the tricks that will be judged in the surfstyle class?

Your opinions, please.

Hmmm, what if you intergated the two classes into an unlimited division?

Equipment restrictions. I guess.

[wakeboarder247]

I'm bbbaaaaaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!

Ok, so we held the first division between surf and skim, but I made the mistake of expecting that by setting out the rules, folks would make an effort to respect them and try and work within the "spirit" of the rules.

Instead, the folks from Calibrated basically took a skimboard, jammed 2 - 2" fins on it and called it a surfboard In practice, it was a tie for first place between Jaime Lovett, professional skimmer and a professional surfer...Jaime won the tie breaker by having fewer falls in his run.

So, I'm back to the question, but now it's developing rules that will prevent a skimboard from entering the surfstyle class...and I got to thinking that maybe it's not an equipment issue at all.

The argument has been there are separate classes for skimboards and shortboards in the ocean, but the truth is that if a skimmer could paddle in to a wave and not exhaust himself in the process, there really isn't anything precluding that. So...the equipment that is being used is more a reflection of the environment and not an exclusionary policy.

In the surfstyle class Jaime did the same run and tricks as he did in the skimstyle class.

So...if I may ask my fellow Tige owners/surfers, should the rules reflect equipment restrictions, or is it more appropriate to restrict the tricks that will be judged in the surfstyle class?

Your opinions, please.

IMO, I think that the equipment restrictions are too hard to regulate. Like you said, the folks from Calibrated just jammed 2-2" fins on their skimmer and called it a surfboard so you've proved that equipment restrictions are extremely hard to control. Especially since the original question was which "board" falls into which category and now, just by making the fins longer, it falls into a different category even though it is the same "board". This means that you would be able to run virtually the same run on the same board in both classes, but w/ longer fins for one.

I think what it ALL boils down to is style. Yes, there are two styles of boards (surf and skim) but there are also two styles of riding (surf and skim). Each style brings it's own tricks to the table so by regulating which tricks are allowed in each event, I think it would be easier to score the events. If a skim style rider throws longer fins and enters the surf style competition, he himself still has a skim style with skim style tricks; and the same goes for a surfer. Sure some tricks may be more impressive to watch, but the technical aspect to some tricks are harder even if they don't look as "hard", like a surface 3 on a 6'2" surfboard vs. a 4' skimmer.

By regulating which tricks are worth more points in which event, you are forcing the riders to alter their style in each event and do tricks that go along with that style of riding. This eliminates the ability to do the same tricks in both categories just by altering your fins.



Sorry for the long, confusing post. Upon rereading it, it confused me and I'm the one that wrote it so if it doesn't make sense, feel free to ask and I'll try to explain better!

[NICKYPOO]

Excellent post 247.

[wakeboarder247]

Thanks Nick! I'm glad it made sense to ya!

[NICKYPOO]

Thanks Nick! I'm glad it made sense to ya!

You almost have me convinced. However, I still don't think there should be a split at all.

[wakeboarder247]

Ya I see what you mean. I don't really know how I feel about having 2 distinct classes vs. an all-out "run what you brung" class.. I was just trying to give my opinion on how to best regulate the two.. Like Surfdad said, both sides have good arguments and typically, riders w/ deeper pockets (and sponsored riders) will have the advantage over little Tommy w/ his 6'2" surfboard no matter what.. Life ain't fair!

[NICKYPOO]

Life ain't fair!

Never has been, never will be. Sack up and ride.

[Tequilasun]

I can't imagine how frustrated Surfdad is....


I was on the side of the separate the two, now I say lump them together.

Guess us fatties just have to learn to throw down better!

[wakeboarder247]

Never has been, never will be. Sack up and ride.

word.