debates

[skippabcool]

They Need Changed

Depends on who you ask.

[MoneyPity]

Ok, we gotta lighten up this thread a little

:bs

IMHO this 16.2% vs. 8.1% is just playing numbers. Years ago we were at 10+% unemployed. I would have to do more research but that is not my point. I have not worked full time for 2 years now. Those who know me and have made fun of me on this forum may remember that I suffer from a severe headache pattern commonly refered to as cluster headaches. These are compounded by severe headaches and daily migraine attacks. To put in perspective I worked through the cluster headaches for 12 of the 14 years I have suffered from them. Initially they only occurred fall thru spring but over 8 years ago they morphed and turned chronic. I am not going to take the time to describe what they are because all of you can look them up on the web. Basically they screw up my cognitive skills because of meds and screw up my ability to focus on the job at hand. On an average day I get 5-6 attacks a day that last 2-3 hours per. This is the basic background.

Now am I to be counted as unemployed because I am not working? Or am I in the other 8.1% that some want oto use against Obama and say that I should be counted as unemployed. Yhe reality is I am disabled. How many vets who served our country well are unemployed raiiiising the unemployment number for 10 years of war. Are they counted as unemployed or disabled?

For many years I have been trying to find a solution to my affliction. I have spent significant cash traveling to Neurologists who are specialists but after many dollars and years I am still not working because I can't. So again which Abbott and Costello number do i and others like me fall into. I am un-employed yes, but, I am unable to work at this time but am trying to find a way to return hopefully soon.

Our current system fails the unemployed both with available jobs but also with the lack of retraining in areas were some of the un-employed can be productive. Not all of the unemployed can be retrained into todays active job markets. Many factory workers are not able to transition into the tech sector. I wonder how many republicans can change the weather so crop based jobs are not layed off. As you are aware we have had a couple of years of serious drought in farm country driving crop production way down. Companies who use the corn crop for ethanol or other conversion processes have had to lay off up to 10% of their employee base due to lack of corn.

Of the 8.1% that are un-employed how many are un-employed due to desires to increase profitability, the trend to move jobs offshore to reduce costs and so on. It is not just labor intensive work that has gone overseas. I moved low end and mid end programming positions to India for three reasons. Significantly lower labor costs by 40-50% at a minimum and higher productivity and company survival. Is American labor too expensive in a global economy?

Another trend in American business is in no-cause states companies are taking advantage of unemployment. They are letting go many good paying professional full time positions and are re-hiring experienced workers as part time employees for a lower hourly rate and no benefits. This is being done in retail, technology, accounting and other sectors. Basic business 101. Reduce labor costs, increase productivity and raise profits. Privately owned and businesses with stockholders are all playing the same games. The company I worked for needed to put some work offshore to survive. In the last 2 years they have also put into practice a program to let go 20+ employees out of approx 150 and replaced each one with part time employees working 30 hours per week. How many of you who are complaining about un-employment have seen these common practices?

Bottom line is that raw un-employment numbers do not clearly paint and accurate picture. And again for the record I am not a Dem.

[MoneyPity]

Need more people with this mindset.

I guess I should have been clearer on this. There was a post that criticized the Dems for having an in house party (possibly/probably) catered a their facility and a comparison vs the Reps who went to local places of business to celebrate after the debate. It attempted to criticize the Dems for not contributing to the economy blah blah blah

Talk about bias.

In my attempt to toss in a bit of levity I tossed out the foodstamp comment that the dems decided to use foodstamps to buy groceries and then Nobody gives me permission to use them also

On the record we need a change in leadership at Presidential, Congresional, Senatorial and Speaker and commitee leadership positions to work together. If we elect Mitt Romney I wonder if we will want to fire hime in four years. He did get bi-partisan support when govenor. Teddy sure helped his causes. The dems that did not support him he went all out to get republican replacements to fullfill his bi-partisan view.

[Nobody]

:bs

I have not worked full time for 2 years now.

Those who know me and have made fun of me on this forum may remember that I suffer from a severe headache pattern commonly refered to as cluster headaches. These are compounded by severe headaches and daily migraine attacks. To put in perspective I worked through the cluster headaches for 12 of the 14 years I have suffered from them. Initially they only occurred fall thru spring but over 8 years ago they morphed and turned chronic. I am not going to take the time to describe what they are because all of you can look them up on the web. Basically they screw up my cognitive skills because of meds and screw up my ability to focus on the job at hand. On an average day I get 5-6 attacks a day that last 2-3 hours per. This is the basic background.

Now am I to be counted as unemployed because I am not working? Or am I in the other 8.1% that some want oto use against Obama and say that I should be counted as unemployed. Yhe reality is I am disabled. How many vets who served our country well are unemployed raiiiising the unemployment number for 10 years of war. Are they counted as unemployed or disabled?

For many years I have been trying to find a solution to my affliction. I have spent significant cash traveling to Neurologists who are specialists but after many dollars and years I am still not working because I can't. So again which Abbott and Costello number do i and others like me fall into. I am un-employed yes, but, I am unable to work at this time but am trying to find a way to return hopefully soon.

Our current system fails the unemployed both with available jobs but also with the lack of retraining in areas were some of the un-employed can be productive. Not all of the unemployed can be retrained into todays active job markets. Many factory workers are not able to transition into the tech sector. I wonder how many republicans can change the weather so crop based jobs are not layed off. As you are aware we have had a couple of years of serious drought in farm country driving crop production way down. Companies who use the corn crop for ethanol or other conversion processes have had to lay off up to 10% of their employee base due to lack of corn.

Of the 8.1% that are un-employed how many are un-employed due to desires to increase profitability, the trend to move jobs offshore to reduce costs and so on. It is not just labor intensive work that has gone overseas. I moved low end and mid end programming positions to India for three reasons. Significantly lower labor costs by 40-50% at a minimum and higher productivity and company survival. Is American labor too expensive in a global economy?

Another trend in American business is in no-cause states companies are taking advantage of unemployment. They are letting go many good paying professional full time positions and are re-hiring experienced workers as part time employees for a lower hourly rate and no benefits. This is being done in retail, technology, accounting and other sectors. Basic business 101. Reduce labor costs, increase productivity and raise profits. Privately owned and businesses with stockholders are all playing the same games. The company I worked for needed to put some work offshore to survive. In the last 2 years they have also put into practice a program to let go 20+ employees out of approx 150 and replaced each one with part time employees working 30 hours per week. How many of you who are complaining about un-employment have seen these common practices?

Bottom line is that raw un-employment numbers do not clearly paint and accurate picture. And again for the record I am not a Dem.

Ok, you not a Dem, but honestly what's your point? Blame Obama???

[Nobody]

I guess I should have been clearer on this. There was a post that criticized the Dems for having an in house party (possibly/probably) catered a their facility and a comparison vs the Reps who went to local places of business to celebrate after the debate. It attempted to criticize the Dems for not contributing to the economy blah blah blah

Talk about bias.

In my attempt to toss in a bit of levity I tossed out the foodstamp comment that the dems decided to use foodstamps to buy groceries and then Nobody gives me permission to use them also

On the record we need a change in leadership at Presidential, Congresional, Senatorial and Speaker and commitee leadership positions to work together. If we elect Mitt Romney I wonder if we will want to fire hime in four years. He did get bi-partisan support when govenor. Teddy sure helped his causes. The dems that did not support him he went all out to get republican replacements to fullfill his bi-partisan view.

The R's will push Mitt to repeal AHC....and in doing so, it will do nothing but inflict partisanship for the next 4 years. That's if the D's control either the senate or house. Opps, that elusive word "control", or did I mean to say force? Oh hell, never mind.

[chpthril]

So, our local news is recapping the debate. They mentioned the "watching" parties around the city and stated that the Dems held their party at the Obama campaign office and the Reps held theirs at a local bar & grill............where they probably spent money that went into the local economy that went toward the salaries of the servers and other staff, vendors of the food and drink, utility co cause the lights were on and water was run, and of course local taxes on prepared food.

You'll are smart enough to draw your own conclusion.

So?
Wait, now I get it. The Dems true to party beliefs used food stamps

Ok, we gotta lighten up this thread a little

:bs

IMHO this 16.2% vs. 8.1% is just playing numbers.

I guess I should have been clearer on this. There was a post that criticized the Dems for having an in house party (possibly/probably) catered a their facility and a comparison vs the Reps who went to local places of business to celebrate after the debate. It attempted to criticize the Dems for not contributing to the economy blah blah blah

Talk about bias.

In my attempt to toss in a bit of levity I tossed out the foodstamp comment that the dems decided to use foodstamps to buy groceries and then Nobody gives me permission to use them also

On the record we need a change in leadership at Presidential, Congresional, Senatorial and Speaker and commitee leadership positions to work together. If we elect Mitt Romney I wonder if we will want to fire hime in four years. He did get bi-partisan support when govenor. Teddy sure helped his causes. The dems that did not support him he went all out to get republican replacements to fullfill his bi-partisan view.

On the contrary, I did not actually criticize one party or the other. I simply offered up some food for thought. You on the other hand, have now fallen on both sides of the fence. You made a "Dems use food stamp" joke as your first reaction, and now 24 hrs later, you come at me for attacking the Dems. One could have easily concluded that the rich greedy white Reps used campaign donations to party through the night, while the Dems had a soup line for the homeless.

I'm sorry that you drew your own initial conclusion and offended yourself. My apologies.

Yes, the Abbot and Costello bit was supposed to be a joke. Yes, both sides massage the numbers on all issues. Its the nature of the game. I apologize if you found it offensive, given your current situation. But there is no denying the fact that there are more people not working then the "unemployment" numbers reflect.

Some dont want to seek gainful employment because the Gov (state, local and Fed) enable them to not NEED to work. As noted in an earlier post, a Government body only has one way to generate money. So the tax dollars of every single working american goes to support this sector of people that choose not to work.

Some cant work or work at a full capacity do to a disability.

Some are under-employed as they are working 1 or 2 part time jobs as they cant find full time work that is in their trained area or at a pay level that they were once at.

Some have been unemployed for so long that they have gone through the local unemployment benefits and the federally funded extended benefits.

Some are here illegally, work under the table or with the use of one alias, while at the same time, taking advantage of social programs using another name. Once again, this is OUR tax dollars.

Believe me, Im as angry as you and Nobody are, about the current state of america. Its not about whether you wear a D or an R on your jersey, its about the need for change. You have no idea what I have been through in the past 4+ years. What I have lost, what I have given up and what I have sacrificed. Read what it states next to "Boat". Its obvious I no longer own the boat of my dreams. For the past 3 years, I worked a full-time job that had me on the road almost every day. Many where 10-12 hour days and some weeks I was on over night jobs for 2-3 nights. At the same time, my wife was working 3 part time jobs, one of which had here working every weekend. 3 of weekends a month, she was out of town, leaving Thursday and returning either late Sat or Sunday. There where many a week that I would be coming home from a trip as shes leaving or already gone. On some occasions, i had to leave out on a Sunday afternoon, because I needed to be on a job site at 8AM Monday morning at a job sute 4-5 hrs drive away. You wanna talk about a crappy situation! All this, while I was trying to operate and expand MLA. I was and still do work 7 days a week. During those 3 years, It was normal for me to be up til 10PM working on a customers boat, processing orders for customers, answering emails and PM's, placing stock orders, doing my accounting. I even took my vacation in order to spend 4 days doing the local boat show just to take advantage of the exposure. Since January, I have been full-time with MLA. up until Aug, I had one to two boats in the shop every week, so I was still working every day of the week and into the night when needed. Im now into the slow season and finally able to travel with the wife when when needs to be out of town.

Instead of calling people on this forum names (you didnt), i have channeled my anger toward the current economic and social state of the country and those responsible (yes, im responsible too), ive done my homework and have voted for the candidates that best align with my ideology. My hope is to have an administration that will work for all americans, instead of just pandering to the growing number of those who have their hands out while blaming others for them not having what others have. Our current admin has been the most desisive, the most dividing one in decades. Race relations have slipped back decades. he wants people to resent the the successful, rather then strive to achieve success.

Well, I resent those that didnt work for what they have. I resent those that where allowed to buy a 200K house on a 25K household income. I resent those that are able to buy a nice car, because their expensive groceries (same ones I have to buy) are taken care of through an EBT card. I resent the ones that get free day care because they dont work , yet moms that want to and need to work, have trouble finding child care that allows them to work the hours they need. I resent those that have the free time, cause they dont work, to go stand in a line to get assistance on their utility bills. This frees up funds to pay their $120 a month cable bill, yet I watch one of 3 chnls that I get on my rabbit ears antenna. I resent those that get a free Obama phone, while I have a $150 a month plan because we NEED our phones in order to WORK!

[91Terminator]

On the contrary, I did not actually criticize one party or the other. I simply offered up some food for thought. You on the other hand, have now fallen on both sides of the fence. You made a "Dems use food stamp" joke as your first reaction, and now 24 hrs later, you come at me for attacking the Dems. One could have easily concluded that the rich greedy white Reps used campaign donations to party through the night, while the Dems had a soup line for the homeless.

I'm sorry that you drew your own initial conclusion and offended yourself. My apologies.

Yes, the Abbot and Costello bit was supposed to be a joke. Yes, both sides massage the numbers on all issues. Its the nature of the game. I apologize if you found it offensive, given your current situation. But there is no denying the fact that there are more people not working then the "unemployment" numbers reflect.

Some dont want to seek gainful employment because the Gov (state, local and Fed) enable them to not NEED to work. As noted in an earlier post, a Government body only has one way to generate money. So the tax dollars of every single working american goes to support this sector of people that choose not to work.

Some cant work or work at a full capacity do to a disability.

Some are under-employed as they are working 1 or 2 part time jobs as they cant find full time work that is in their trained area or at a pay level that they were once at.

Some have been unemployed for so long that they have gone through the local unemployment benefits and the federally funded extended benefits.

Some are here illegally, work under the table or with the use of one alias, while at the same time, taking advantage of social programs using another name. Once again, this is OUR tax dollars.

Believe me, Im as angry as you and Nobody are, about the current state of america. Its not about whether you wear a D or an R on your jersey, its about the need for change. You have no idea what I have been through in the past 4+ years. What I have lost, what I have given up and what I have sacrificed. Read what it states next to "Boat". Its obvious I no longer own the boat of my dreams. For the past 3 years, I worked a full-time job that had me on the road almost every day. Many where 10-12 hour days and some weeks I was on over night jobs for 2-3 nights. At the same time, my wife was working 3 part time jobs, one of which had here working every weekend. 3 of weekends a month, she was out of town, leaving Thursday and returning either late Sat or Sunday. There where many a week that I would be coming home from a trip as shes leaving or already gone. On some occasions, i had to leave out on a Sunday afternoon, because I needed to be on a job site at 8AM Monday morning at a job sute 4-5 hrs drive away. You wanna talk about a crappy situation! All this, while I was trying to operate and expand MLA. I was and still do work 7 days a week. During those 3 years, It was normal for me to be up til 10PM working on a customers boat, processing orders for customers, answering emails and PM's, placing stock orders, doing my accounting. I even took my vacation in order to spend 4 days doing the local boat show just to take advantage of the exposure. Since January, I have been full-time with MLA. up until Aug, I had one to two boats in the shop every week, so I was still working every day of the week and into the night when needed. Im now into the slow season and finally able to travel with the wife when when needs to be out of town.

Instead of calling people on this forum names (you didnt), i have channeled my anger toward the current economic and social state of the country and those responsible (yes, im responsible too), ive done my homework and have voted for the candidates that best align with my ideology. My hope is to have an administration that will work for all americans, instead of just pandering to the growing number of those who have their hands out while blaming others for them not having what others have. Our current admin has been the most desisive, the most dividing one in decades. Race relations have slipped back decades. he wants people to resent the the successful, rather then strive to achieve success.

Well, I resent those that didnt work for what they have. I resent those that where allowed to buy a 200K house on a 25K household income. I resent those that are able to buy a nice car, because their expensive groceries (same ones I have to buy) are taken care of through an EBT card. I resent the ones that get free day care because they dont work , yet moms that want to and need to work, have trouble finding child care that allows them to work the hours they need. I resent those that have the free time, cause they dont work, to go stand in a line to get assistance on their utility bills. This frees up funds to pay their $120 a month cable bill, yet I watch one of 3 chnls that I get on my rabbit ears antenna. I resent those that get a free Obama phone, while I have a $150 a month plan because we NEED our phones in order to WORK!

Well said chp.

I dont understand how becoming/being successful became a bad thing. Why is working hard and growing and becoming financially stable and then some a bad thing in todays society? Isn't that why people came to this country?

[skippabcool]

Ouch - His own words

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/10/2007...doesnt-add-up/

[Fiveflat]

Ok, you not a Dem, but honestly what's your point? Blame Obama???

Should be a perfectly legitimate excuse. He's been blaming Bush for 4 years when he campaigned on fulfilling his promises within 3. Ronald Reagan took over after a much work economy with Carter. Do you recall how much time he spent blaming Carter?

[Timmy!]

I don't resent ANYONE. I am PROUD of what I have earned and the fact that I have worked my tail off to get it. IMO, resentment and despise lead to hate and anger and that's part of our countries problem (IMO). I think we have a high murder rate in this country due to those types of issues. People that have little resent those that have it all, or have more than they do, and then they kill for it or kill to show that they are better than others and want that respect. Oh you have what I want and I have a gun, bang, I have your stuff now. Winner just took all! Everyone has their own way of thinking, of course, and to those who are lazy and take advantage of Govt programs, I just say "good for you, I EARNED my stuff" and move on. There will always be those that want other to take care of them, nothing you can do about it. I'm not much of a religious man but I do believe that if Jesus is real, how would he want me to think of the lazy people that take advantage of others? BTW, I am not judging anyone on what they believe, only on their actions and how they treat others.

[MoneyPity]

Ok, you not a Dem, but honestly what's your point? Blame Obama???

My point is the numbers for un-employment of 8.1% and the of 16.2% are not accurate when you take into account disabled vets, disabled and folks trying to retrain. in our family we have 10 kids who have graduated since 2009 and all of them found good jobs in 4-6 weeks. They were fortunate to get degrees where there is a demand for workers.

Obama has some responsibility but the buck does not stop there. Business that moves job offshore are responsible for much of it but they are responsible to their owners to make and increase profits. The cost of doing business in the US is too high in many sectors. Some incentives are needed to help them keep jobs here in one form or another.

Chicago has taken tech sector jobs away from its suburbs in the last few months with tax incentives. It is better to pay a smaller tax on new jobs vs full tax on lesser jobs overall. Some revenue is better than a gooseegg.

[Timmy!]

The cost of doing business in the US is too high in many sectors.

In your opinion, which part is too high? The cost of American workers, taxes imposed on the business by the Govt or both? Other? I'm not saying there is a right or wrong answer, just curious on your take and no I will not flame you for your opinion afterwards (not guarantee that others won't though! )

[MoneyPity]

In your opinion, which part is too high? The cost of American workers, taxes imposed on the business by the Govt or both? Other? I'm not saying there is a right or wrong answer, just curious on your take and no I will not flame you for your opinion afterwards (not guarantee that others won't though! )

Depending on the job sector the cost of labor is a significant reason the US is loosing jobs to many different countries. Theen there are sectors that are under paid such as teachers and others who provide social services. Taxes at 30+ percent on income for the middle class is a killer when you then compound the insanity for real estate and general sales taxes. Tax loopholes drive me nuts. It tkes money to hide money and I am not able to do either.

[D&P Powell]

Everyone has their own way of thinking, of course, and to those who are lazy and take advantage of Govt programs, I just say "good for you, I EARNED my stuff" and move on.

Although I agree with you on many points you have made in this thread Timmy, I have to speak up on this one. I am a registered Republican, and do not like the way our government has slowly slid to a socialist way of thinking in many areas. However, I also have to admit to utilizing "Govt programs" to their fullest extent. The 9/11 GI bill helped me obtain my Bachelors and Masters Degrees, while the new HARP program helped me lower my interest rate significantly on my morgtage. I guess it's all in how you look at it, but I served this country honorably for 20+ years in the military, and have paid my 10 years of morgtage on time-every time with a spot free credit record. Some may look at that and say I was lazy and took advantage of Govt. programs, whereas I would like to think I earned the benefit of the programs being offered.

[chpthril]

Word is, CBS/60 Min did an Obama interview on Sept 12, the day after the attack on our ambassador, and out of Obama's own lips, he clearly stated that it was not a mob protesting over a video and got out of hand. He felt it was folks who intentional targeted the US.
So, not only is their [White House] lie and cover-up story to the US unraveling, there is the question as to why, with a month to go before the election, would a news media, that is supposed to be fair, unbiased and objective, edit out what Obama told them in regards to the attacks.