2011 Tige RZ2 - Fogging Engine Req'd?

[sandm]

not an expert, but believe that pressure forces the rings to expand and seal the chamber. an engine at idle with no movement would have some leakage around the rings, especially over a winter. remember that rings are not a solid circle but have a gap cut in them to install them. the liquid fogging fluid would be able to drain past that.
it is not uncommon to have, especially high psi(turbo/supercharged) engines to have leakdown percentages in the double digits.

[IDBoating]

Then I guess you end up with fogging oil in your regular engine oil. Since the recommendation is to change the oil BEFORE winter storage, that means the fogging oil would be circulating around for the next 50 hours of engine operation. Not a huge percentage of the usual gallon of oil in there, but still... I wonder which is the greater evil?

[sandm]

I have used the same 16oz can of fogging fluid for several years. betting the amount that ends up in the oil is very very small.

since you are using it to protect cylinder walls/pistons/rings, guessing that it's no biggie if some is in the oil for the next season.

[Ditch Doctor]

The amount of fogging oil used is negligible in the grand scheme of things. It is not a concern that it will contaminate the engine oil. If that was a concern you would not want it inside your engine to begin with. And the engine does have to be running and at normal operating temps for the rings to be sealed. That is the whole idea in the end gap of the rings when the engine is assembled. It allows for the expansion of the metals when heated. The idea behind fogging with the engine running has to do with both the sensors and the cats. There are other agents involved in the fogging oil that will evaporate over the storage period so they will not be there when you start the engine in the spring.

If you are storing outside or your boat will see wild temp swings during storage it is a good idea to fog through the spark plugs. If you are storing in a climate controlled area or in a dry storage away from the water I don't think it is needed.

I say this from 15 years experience as a factory certified power sports tech.

[supervol0509]

I guess I started quite the conversation. I found a "how to" video, and ended up fogging through the throttle body. After reading here, probably won't do that again. Embarrassed to say, but I'm just not real sure where the spark plugs are on the engine, and wouldn't know how to hand crank the engine, if I did. Will try to figure it out over the next year.

I haven't gotten to familiar with the engine, but do you guys drain any other hoses, other than those indicated. My old Indmar had a lot of hoses to drain. It was quite a pain.

This is my third year winterizing (first with the PCM). I've never put antifreeze through it. I guess that will minimize corrosion? Maybe in the future, but not this year.

[lee]

Then I guess you end up with fogging oil in your regular engine oil. Since the recommendation is to change the oil BEFORE winter storage, that means the fogging oil would be circulating around for the next 50 hours of engine operation. Not a huge percentage of the usual gallon of oil in there, but still... I wonder which is the greater evil?

That is why you would change the oil after the winterization and not before.

[jmitchell]

Removing the spark plugs seems simple enough but these new plugs should NOT need to be re-gapped correct? Should be as simple as tightening the plugs back into place after fogging and reconnecting cables.

As for timing of fogging, if doing an oil change at winterization, is it better to fog before or after oil change? I'm hearing don't run engine after fogging, but oil change ideally needs the engine to be run. Also hearing change oil after winterization.

Lastly, it has been mentioned before to put a 5/8" socket on the crankshaft pulley, then turn clockwise at least 3-4 full rotations after fogging but prior to putting plugs back in. The below image is the correct location for this which should be at the back of the engine, correct?
2016-10-26_9-48-45.jpg

[IDBoating]

Removing the spark plugs seems simple enough but these new plugs should NOT need to be re-gapped correct? Should be as simple as tightening the plugs back into place after fogging and reconnecting cables.

I always clean the plugs with a brass brush, and on traditional plugs I check the gap since they're out anyway. On my engine, though, they are so-called "surface gap" plugs without an electrode so there's no way to adjust them. I just clean and reinstall.

As for timing of fogging, if doing an oil change at winterization, is it better to fog before or after oil change? I'm hearing don't run engine after fogging, but oil change ideally needs the engine to be run. Also hearing change oil after winterization.

Fuel and oil winterization sequence:

* Add fuel treatment to gas tank (BEFORE topping off, to get a better mix)
* Top off gas tank with fresh, non-ethanol fuel
* Run engine, preferably on the water so it gets well exercised, long enough to bring the engine and oil up to temperature AND to insure that *treated* fuel completely fills fuel system all the way to the injectors
* Remove batteries (you won't run the engine again)
* LOF
* Remove plugs, inspect, clean with wire brush
* Squirt 4-5 seconds of fogging oil in each spark plug hole (carefully hold the little spray can straw, those have been shot into cylinders more than once! )
* Turn crankshaft by hand several full rotations
* Reinstall plugs
* Fuel and oil systems are done

Proceed with draining cooling water, etc. as appropriate for whatever engine and accessories you have.

You want to change oil in the fall. Not good to let potentially contaminated oil sit in there for an extra six months. I guess if you wanted to be really picky you could then ALSO change the oil again first thing in the spring, but no one I've ever met does both (including me, and I'm really into taking good care of my equipment).

Lastly, it has been mentioned before to put a 5/8" socket on the crankshaft pulley, then turn clockwise at least 3-4 full rotations after fogging but prior to putting plugs back in. The below image is the correct location for this which should be at the back of the engine, correct?

Correct! There is a nut right in the center of that pulley. Put a nice long ratchet handle on it and turn it clockwise (as if tightening) several full rotations with the plugs out. And to me, it's the "front" of the engine... the transmission comes off the "back", but our engines are mounted backwards in our v-drive boats!

[supervol0509]

Thanks for the help! Is there any issue with fogging the cylinder, through the spark plugs, after all the water has been drained?

[IDBoating]

No, the specific order doesn't matter. I wouldn't do it while the plugs are out, though, since you could splash water into the cylinders.

[jmitchell]

Thanks ID, where did you have the oil change in the steps? And what is LOF?

[IDBoating]

LOF = "Lube, Oil, Filter". Industry shorthand for an oil change that includes replacing the oil filter and lubing specific spots (such as the transmission shift linkage, etc.).

Thus, in the above list, you'd change the oil and filter after removing the batteries, but before the engine cools down after you've run it to warm it up (in preparation for that oil change) and insure the fuel system is full of TREATED fuel.

You could do the oil change before the batteries, but the few minutes of removing the batteries lets the oil filter cool just a bit so you're not handling a 160F can full of 160F oil!

[scoot18]

May be a little late to the party on this discussion, but thought I would mention that another way to rotate the engine to spread the fogging oil would be to simply crank the engine for a second or two. Simply disable the fuel and ignition system by pulling the fuel pump relay and unplugging the ignition coil(s) turn key and crank for a second. I have also done this very thing to keep everything lubricated every 30 days or so during the off season when I hadn't fogged the cylinders. (this would be an option if the boat is at home or close by)

[jmitchell]

Any reason that the spark plugs need to be left out while turning the crankshaft by hand? Seems easier to keep track of everything by spraying fogging oil, then immediately reinstalling the spark plug. Doing this for all 8, then turning the crankshaft by hand.

[IDBoating]

Pressure relief. If you can turn the crankshaft by hand with all plugs in and seated, you're a lot stronger than I am!

And if it's hard to turn, you probably won't turn it as many times... which means you'll be losing some of the benefits of using storage oil in the first place.

Personally, I take out all eight plugs, inspect and clean them, line them up in a visible spot, and once the storage oil is done I reinstall them all at once so none are forgotten.