New RZX3 on the way!

[UNSTUCK]

Unstuck,
I'm lost. Are the metaphorical tire blowouts due to load rating not being high enough on tires or GVWR being exceeded??
Here's the data plate for the setup I mentioned. Per your math 6000# boat+1400# trailer+403# of fuel. Comes in under 8175#. Tige gives their numbers to Boatmate, they build the trailer to their specs, that their in house engineers come up with. Not going to feel liable or responsible for a setup that is within GVWR, per the 2 OEMs

It doesn't matter why the tire blew out, but in that scenario it gives an excuse for investigators to start looking and asking questions. Once a lawyer sees that the trailer may have been/was overloaded, it's over....for someone. I also wonder about the 6000 pound rating. What does that include? Not every rzx3 comes off the line weighing 6000 pounds. Is that the minimum weight without a tower and any options or maybe (hopefully) that's the max possible weight as it leaves Tige? I'm looking at a scale ticket right now of a rzx3 on a triple with 500 pounds of lead on board. The ticket says 8920 pounds. So subtract the lead and the third axle weight and that puts you at 8070 pounds. I don't know how much fuel was in the boat or how many (25 pound) Rev 10's were hanging on the tower, or if there was a supercharger bolted to the motor, ect, ect. All things being equal, would your salesperson tell a prospective buyer that they can only put 100 of gear in the boat when headed to the lake?

I am willing to pay for you to get that boat/trailer in you picture scaled. I'd love to have an rzx3 and feel comfortable with a lighter (cheaper) trailer. The used blue one you guys have for sale, for example.

I have not weighed my boat. On paper it weighs in the 4400 pound range and it sits on a similar two axle trailer. It actually feels lighter than my old 21V when towing it.

[UNSTUCK]

One other thought while I'm here: I think the biggest key to a straight tracking trailer is proper tongue weight. Too light of tongue weight and your trailer will sway no matter how many axles you have.

I test drove an SE550 with a triple axle. I hooked it to my truck (ram 1500) and drove it round trip 80 miles. My tow ball was on a 2" drop ball mount. When we loaded the trailer the tongue weight was so high that it caused my truck to squat so much that we couldn't get the trailer jack off the ground by the time it topped out. We had to remove everything, remove the ball and turn the ball mount over and then replace the ball. This put the ball up like 2" higher and then we were good to go. I didn't measure how much it squatted my truck, but I'll guess and say 4-5".

I then did a road test with an rzx3 on a very similar triple axle. The tow ball was put back to its normal 2" down position before I got to the dealer. We were able to hook the trailer up with no issues and this time I measured and found it only squatted my truck 2 1/2".

Keep in mind the SE on paper is 500 pounds lighter than the rzx. I felt they both towed very well, but I felt more confident with the SE. I don't know if that's because of the higher tongue weight or because of it being overall less weight. Probably both.

Bottom line here is that we should all scale our boats and learn where the weight is at. Use that information to properly load your gear in the boat. Maybe this whole time you've been putting your loaded cooler in the back of the boat when it should have been placed in the bow to add tongue weight. That one thing could actually change the way your trailer tracks going down the road.

[freeheel4life]

If ya talk to Chad about it I will gladly drag the used 16 down to the scales. Gets me out of the shop.
I totally agree that people should do their homework and understand how to properly determine if they are overloaded/overweight.
Again not being confrontational, just curious, but I'd love to see a pic of your door sticker on your 1500. Most 1500s don't have the payload, especially as you move up in cab size. Mega cabs are especially low.
In my experience tongue weight is a minimum of 10-15% of total trailer weight, and that's being generous. So that means the RZX you scaled, at best, was 890# at the tongue. You, your, wife, kids, + any gear in bed + that 890# tongue weight is probably very close you your half tons payload rating, but I haven't seen your door sticker. Just food for thought, especially as your kids are growing and that occupant weight number will keep going up over the years.
Depending what your door sticker says, I'd wonder if you shouldn't be shopping a 3/4ton truck considering your tastes in boats and size of family.
If you were over tow vehicle payload in an accident you could be liable...

[bsreid]

Exactly what I was gonna say.

I would be much more worried about the weight on the truck than the trailer in the event of an accident. I’d be surprised if your hitch was underrated and anything over 5000 needs a weight distributing hitch. As mentioned above you’re probably over on payload too.

[UNSTUCK]

I agree with both of you and have gone back and forth with my salesman about the issue of my truck size. I didn't think to scale the SE, and during the RZX drive we looked and looked and couldn't find a scale (the rzx I referenced above was not of my doing). My truck is rated to tow 8390 so it would be close as well. I think it's one thing for an owner to choose to overload his tow vehicle and something entirely different for a dealer to sell a trailer undersized for the boat. I have been looking into a WDH without much luck. This is something everyone of us should have as we're all over 5k and at this point I'm surprised that companies such as Boatmate have not made this easier to be done.

[bsreid]

The problem with the WDH is that none of them are compatible with surge brakes... There was a long thread on Malibu crew about this and nobody seemed to have much luck.

[freeheel4life]

There are ways to adapt a pole tongue to accept a WDH.
Here's a cheap and albeit cheesy example, but they are out there.
https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...5-01-5950.html
Seems like it would be easy enough to solve the surge brake dilemma. Would just have to switch to an electric over hydraulic (EOH) rig. Weld in a filler plate just behind wishbone and mount it there. Then just need a controller, which a lot if guys have already...
Unstuck,
Your 8k+ tow rating is all well and good. More concerned about payload. You should have a sticker on you driver door frame that looks like this(this is off my commuter Honda so number is very low). That combined weight is payload rating, and tongue weight starts chewing into that number real quick before people and gear get added to the equation.

[UNSTUCK]

If I was to purchase an rzx3 I anticipate being over my payload by a few hundred pounds. I think my payload is like 1200-1300 pounds. I'm okay with this and am (would be) prepared to accept any liability resulting from that.

Tell chad to get that boat scaled. By the way, I was thinking of the used 2017. I see you mentioned the 2016. I don't see that on your website anymore. Still have that one?

[freeheel4life]

The 17 is our owners family boat. They definitely want to get it gone. I think we have the 16 still. Its such a blur these days. We bought the building next to us and are in the process of remodeling all 15,000sq ft into a huge showroom and retail space. That on top of new boats coming in, and we have two different offsite boat storage locations I cant keep it all straight. Will ask Chad but I don't remember it leaving. 3 more Tiges showing up Thursday and we have 10 Avalon pontoons on the way.
If you are serious on the 17 talk to Chad and I am sure we can drag it on down to the CAT scales.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BfwtOnUD...igewatersports
Heres the 17 looking fancy as heck
BTW I cant help but giggle a bit that what kicked this whole thing off is you having beef with an overloaded trailer, and we've arrived at you not caring if your are overloading you 1/2 ton with the family on board. Like I posted above the numbers add up, but I will gladly get a weight slip to verify if it gets to that point. Just think there is an irony to not caring if your tow vehicle is overloaded and then being concerned that the trailer is overloaded. Even IF trailer isn't overloaded, we have both come to the mutual agreement that youd be over if you towed it with lead and gear in so......

[smoothtoup]

That's very nice looking! What's the $

[freeheel4life]

www.prestigewatersports.com/used-boats.html

$115k. There may be some wiggle as like I said, its basically a consignment and owner wants it gone so they can pick up a 25' Regal Surf model. They want the small head for the kiddos and huge surf waves aren't the most important part of their boating experience.

The 2 VX equipped z3s are both nice boats as well, but the orange and black would be my pick. The R23 is REALLY the boat though. Barely used and PO has had an R21 before the R23. Now hes getting and RZX3 . He takes good care of his boats.

[UNSTUCK]

BTW I cant help but giggle a bit that what kicked this whole thing off is you having beef with an overloaded trailer, and we've arrived at you not caring if your are overloading you 1/2 ton with the family on board. Like I posted above the numbers add up, but I will gladly get a weight slip to verify if it gets to that point. Just think there is an irony to not caring if your tow vehicle is overloaded and then being concerned that the trailer is overloaded. Even IF trailer isn't overloaded, we have both come to the mutual agreement that youd be over if you towed it with lead and gear in so......

Come on. You're putting words in my mouth a little bit. My point and focus is on a dealer's liability. My beef is with a dealer knowingly selling a potentially overloaded trailer to an unsuspecting customer. In my opinion, selling it at 100 pounds under GVW is overloaded. You know they're going to put over 100 pounds of gear in the boat. I have no doubt that the trailer will handle the end load. Especially with Boatmate. I have seen nothing to suspect a quality issue. Now my Extreme trailer is a different story... But when someone is looking to sue, it might just be your dealer that gets it. Now if Chad was to say something like, "we can order you this boat with this smaller trailer, and save you a few grand but you could end up being overloaded. Is that okay?" That changes everything. Now it's the customers choice. But in your comment up above it just says you order two axle trailers, like the customer doesn't have a choice.

As far as me not having a problem overloading my truck, well that's on me. I know full well what I'm choosing to do. I'm not a customer taking the dealers word for it that it will be fine (and the dealer has told me that). So you see it is a bit different. And just so you know, I haven't pulled the trigger on doing this. That little sticker does hold me back, and I have told the dealer that too. But at the same time, I know that the exact same version of my truck with the Hemi ( I have the ecodiesel) has the payload I need and also has a 10k towing capacity. Nothing else about the trucks are different. This tells me that my truck can handle a 10k load, but it just wont make it up the hills as fast as a Hemi would. The suspension is the same. The brakes are the same. The frame is the same, etc, etc. I would expect the same handling between the two truck going down Parlays Canyon. On top of all that, the Ecodiesel has 3 solid years of track record for hauling overloaded and seem to run better that way. Would a 3/4 ton be better? Of course it would! Would a semi tractor tow the boat even safer? You bet. My thought is use the smallest tow rig that will consistently, safely tow the load.

[freeheel4life]

Didn't mean to try and twist your words, was just simplifying it down to is simplest form. You are a smart guy, was just trying to "chew the fat" a bit.
So Chad hasn't had a custom RZX3 order until this year. So I don't blame him for ordering tandems. That's on him. I don't deal with finance but if you are flooring a boat I imagine it doesn't make sense to option it out to the max. Just means that when you have a walk in customer that is interested they have to have even deeper pockets. I have written Boatmate regarding this exact conversation and unfortunately they called Chad back instead of me. So the second hand story I am getting from Chad, via Boatmate, is that tongue weight get subtracted from GVWR of trailer. Doesn't make sense to me, but that's what was regurgitated to me. The claim was also that tongue weight on above trailer should be "about 600 lbs". Id say that's off. I have a crane coming tomorrow so may throw a sling around the tongue and have him pull it and see what his dynamometer (I know this isn't a 100% accurate measurement but should get me darn close) reads when tongue comes up.
Theres a reason I'm not in sales. Because I am the guy that would tell you that you are over payload on your half ton. I'm not about dishonesty, or pulling the wool over anyone's eyes. Ditching the Ecodiesel will net you some more payload because the Hemi is a lighter engine, I believe that's where the numbers differ, in both payload and capacity. I think you may want to check into it a bit further(If you are considering a vehicle swap). I have never been in an ecodiesel Ram yet, but my good friend rocks a 5.7 Hemi and tows a 7500#(dry) camper, more in summer when he tows it with water on board. It doesn't climb anything "fast". Been with him in it on HWY 55 between here and McCall, ID and it spends a good chunk of its time at around 3500RPM or more, unless its flat, and no headwind. I have never researched the Ecodiesel but I imagine it hits the peak of its torque curve at a much lower RPM than the Hemi, but that's speculation on my part based on previous TD experience.

[Jwolfe]

Thanks guys for all the info!!
I guess I’ll order it with the Tri-axle, it’s more money but it also looks a lot better in my mind (even tho it sits beside the cabin all summer with nothing on it)


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[bsreid]

Jwolfe. What do you have now?