Originally posted by Bakes5
View Post
Sometimes I think we want our cake and eat it too. Never been in a ski/wake boat that did not spray when in whitecapping 1-2 foot waves at slower speeds....add ballast and frequent stops/turning around and any boat is going to get you wet. Those that know better than I state that some (older G23, etc) are worse than others but really....when it's white capping there are about 50 other things I'd rather be doing. As I mentioned, how it handles spray in whitecaps really isn't on my list of things to care about; however, others may only get out a few times a year (*yes....all you people with 5-10 year old boats with less than 300 hours) so surf no matter what.
Given your criteria: Spacious, holds own on rough water, don't care about the wake and has 10-12 people on it.....get the biggest boat you can find and enjoy it. Maybe even a 24' Cobalt or equivalent. I mean, a core reason for a towboat is to ride/surf/ski. All of that comes with compromises. If you really don't care about the wake, I infer that you really don't care about the ride/surf/ski aspect of it as much as you do the size and stability of it. Also...12 people in any 23' tow boat is cramped.
Here are my opinions. YMMV
Wakeboard Wake: 23 LSV will have a better low speed wake. I don't think there is really any dispute on that anywhere
Surf Wave: Disagreement here and there depending on the forum, but I think the Z3 will win out in the end.....apples to apples.
Slalom Wake: Wash. Both are not the best slalom wake but are completely skiable...unless the boat is loaded up. With 12 people in your boat, your slalom wake will suck on either boat. The Z3 slalom wake is pretty fun when it's just my wife driving and 150 lbs of lead ballast on the port side to even things out.
Storage: Probably a wash. You need 3000-4000 lbs of ballast to get a good surf wave these days so your probably looking at loss or storage with either. Unless you go to the RZX or G type boats, you lose storage
Handling: 23 LSV. Turns on a dime with minimal roll. Have always loved how fast and flat they turn. Z3 is fine but sure does not like to power turn sharply when unevenly weighted.
Rough Seas: Probably a wash but people say the LSV beats them up (*Flat transom?).
Motors: Same-ish drivetrain...I think. A wash for the most part
Fit/Finish: I keep sitting in Nautiques and Malibus expecting to hear angels singing but they really feel about the same as sitting in my 2016 vintage Z3. Of course Bu and Nautique owners will soundly disagree since they paid $20-50K more. All I know is that when I sit in a well cared for older boat and then my boat it's night and day. When I sit in a new Bu, Nautique or Tige one has to look around and nit-pick.
Reliability: Wash...they all have great drivetrains and are overly dependent on tech that will ultimately fail. I'm not looking forward to trouble shooting electrical gremlins in 5-10 years when parts are scarce. Go on the Nautique or Malibu forum pages and look at all the issues they have.
Bow: I like the size of the Z3 bow. Not too big...not too small. We often have 3 kids up there and I like to sleep in it when out in the cove. It does come at the cost of a slightly smaller cockpit (*but really not that much more LSV has a 8'4" port side bench while the Z3 and the GS23 both have 8' port side benches)...but really, when you have 6 kids on board, the bigger the bow the better since they won't be in the cockpit space.
Cooler: I freaking love the cooler placement in the Z3. Not sure where it is in the LSV so cannot comment. Not only is it spacious and convenient, it's doubles as a seat that is a great place to stick a cold kid or 2 (2 if they are tiny) to warm up. Put the wind dam up, close the windshield and turn on the heater and even the coldest kid is warm and smiling in about 10 seconds. I call it the recovery seat.
All in all, the Z3 and the LSV are pretty comparable. You really cannot go wrong with either.
Given your criteria: Spacious, holds own on rough water, don't care about the wake and has 10-12 people on it.....get the biggest boat you can find and enjoy it. Maybe even a 24' Cobalt or equivalent. I mean, a core reason for a towboat is to ride/surf/ski. All of that comes with compromises. If you really don't care about the wake, I infer that you really don't care about the ride/surf/ski aspect of it as much as you do the size and stability of it. Also...12 people in any 23' tow boat is cramped.
Here are my opinions. YMMV
Wakeboard Wake: 23 LSV will have a better low speed wake. I don't think there is really any dispute on that anywhere
Surf Wave: Disagreement here and there depending on the forum, but I think the Z3 will win out in the end.....apples to apples.
Slalom Wake: Wash. Both are not the best slalom wake but are completely skiable...unless the boat is loaded up. With 12 people in your boat, your slalom wake will suck on either boat. The Z3 slalom wake is pretty fun when it's just my wife driving and 150 lbs of lead ballast on the port side to even things out.
Storage: Probably a wash. You need 3000-4000 lbs of ballast to get a good surf wave these days so your probably looking at loss or storage with either. Unless you go to the RZX or G type boats, you lose storage
Handling: 23 LSV. Turns on a dime with minimal roll. Have always loved how fast and flat they turn. Z3 is fine but sure does not like to power turn sharply when unevenly weighted.
Rough Seas: Probably a wash but people say the LSV beats them up (*Flat transom?).
Motors: Same-ish drivetrain...I think. A wash for the most part
Fit/Finish: I keep sitting in Nautiques and Malibus expecting to hear angels singing but they really feel about the same as sitting in my 2016 vintage Z3. Of course Bu and Nautique owners will soundly disagree since they paid $20-50K more. All I know is that when I sit in a well cared for older boat and then my boat it's night and day. When I sit in a new Bu, Nautique or Tige one has to look around and nit-pick.
Reliability: Wash...they all have great drivetrains and are overly dependent on tech that will ultimately fail. I'm not looking forward to trouble shooting electrical gremlins in 5-10 years when parts are scarce. Go on the Nautique or Malibu forum pages and look at all the issues they have.
Bow: I like the size of the Z3 bow. Not too big...not too small. We often have 3 kids up there and I like to sleep in it when out in the cove. It does come at the cost of a slightly smaller cockpit (*but really not that much more LSV has a 8'4" port side bench while the Z3 and the GS23 both have 8' port side benches)...but really, when you have 6 kids on board, the bigger the bow the better since they won't be in the cockpit space.
Cooler: I freaking love the cooler placement in the Z3. Not sure where it is in the LSV so cannot comment. Not only is it spacious and convenient, it's doubles as a seat that is a great place to stick a cold kid or 2 (2 if they are tiny) to warm up. Put the wind dam up, close the windshield and turn on the heater and even the coldest kid is warm and smiling in about 10 seconds. I call it the recovery seat.
All in all, the Z3 and the LSV are pretty comparable. You really cannot go wrong with either.
Thank you!!!! Very Informative! I agree, both boats are comparable. I think what will really become my ultimate pick will be which dealer will be more helpful.
Although I don't agree with the price and am currently shopping both boats with almost identical options. Bu is coming in cheaper.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Comment