2015 Z1

[Dandy]

Craziest thing to me is that Tige would spent all the time and money into R&D and then production on the VX and AVX platform for just a few years and then totally re-tool and go to TAPS 3. We can all argue over which produces a better wave, but you would think that Tige wouldn't have made the decision to switch without any engineering, thought, and testing before they made the switch. Doesn't mean it was the best call, just saying they obviously had their reason.

I would believe the answer is "marketing/market share". With the VX/AVX platform, they still had to list the boat. Granted it was less than older hulls and other mfgs. boats, but still had to list. After SurfGate and NSS, the push was for non listed boats in the market place. If Tige didn't move to this, then they ran the risk of market share loss. I believe that the 2016 boats were initially able to be ordered as TAPS3 or AVX. My guess on this was to get inventory ran out.

I am always floored how the boat manufacturers will simply stop carrying/supporting a product once they stop using it in production. It seems that now that they don't use the AlphaZ tower, you could not get a replacement from them (different thread all together). If for some reason, your VX/AVX was damaged, I don't believe you can get a replacement part made.

[Mike88]

No offense but the AVX is inferior to Taps 3, and its not remotely the "Easy way". Ive been in both, surfed them tested them and slammed them. When weighed correctly the taps 3 system is vastly superior and its not even close...

I will say that the AVX far exceeds Taps 3 in shallow water performance...... but that is about it.

No offense too.. but I've tested both too, had a z3 AVX for years and change it last summer for a Z1 taps 3 and I've got to say.. personally prefer AVX.
More adjustability and more space to create your own perfect wake. You can't switch side in 3 sec but you can really set you own wave with almost no limits. AVX was the best surf system on the market and for me still is.

I change for a taps 3 because now everybody have kids and yes it's more convenient, many people on different sides and it open door to new trick like switching wave that I really like! No misunderstanding I love taps3 and the wake it push but not ready to say it's better.. sorry

[trace]

Dandy hit the nail on the head. The Market demanded level weighting and side-to-side switching on the fly. Tige had no choice if they wanted to remain relevant. Elevated figured out how to make his Z3 spit out a monster wave and he's shared that knowledge on this forum, but he is doing so less efficiently (fuel economy) than an AVX boat would.

Back to the OP's original question. The only way you would get anything to ride with no ballast, might be with using a device like a mission delta, or a Nauticurl, slowing down to get the boat to squat and then playing with Taps and AVX to try and shape it, but that's just a guess on my part. No one has tried that, that I know of, and I would expect it to be short, soft, and hard to ride.

[Mike88]

I normally just sit back and do not reply - but I'm sorry, I have to strongly disagree with this. Elevated, you and I had this conversation a couple years ago I think...so my apologies for starting again...

I have not been in a "correctly" weighted Taps3 boat yet I suppose, but there is no way the AVX wave is inferior. I know there is a lot of personal opinion in the whole "best wave" conversations but I have not been on another boat (other than G23) that I would trade for my AVX wave. Not yet anyways...

To the OPs question: My Z3 without ballast and AVX (lots of adjustability with AVX) is surfable for my kids and wife but not me. It will make a wave but just doesn't have the push for me (190lbs).

I love the AVX, the adjustability is just awesome. Its listed, but that doesn't bother us. We list at 8* - and coming from a 22v listed to the moon, the 8* doesn't feel like anything...

Again, my

Could not say better

[Germaine Marine]

I normally just sit back and do not reply - but I'm sorry, I have to strongly disagree with this. Elevated, you and I had this conversation a couple years ago I think...so my apologies for starting again...

I have not been in a "correctly" weighted Taps3 boat yet I suppose, but there is no way the AVX wave is inferior. I know there is a lot of personal opinion in the whole "best wave" conversations but I have not been on another boat (other than G23) that I would trade for my AVX wave. Not yet anyways...

To the OPs question: My Z3 without ballast and AVX (lots of adjustability with AVX) is surfable for my kids and wife but not me. It will make a wave but just doesn't have the push for me (190lbs).

I love the AVX, the adjustability is just awesome. Its listed, but that doesn't bother us. We list at 8* - and coming from a 22v listed to the moon, the 8* doesn't feel like anything...

Again, my

If you have not been in a correctly weighted taps 3 boat then how can you logically give an accurate comparison?

Most, I would say 80% don't use the system properly and don't understand the science behind getting the correct weight when going from listed to evenly weighted. Its astonishing, just follow THEGERMAN"S forum in that regard i would say aside from hearing about GSA, ryans take on necessary weight and what weight does when over a certain threshold listing vs evenly weighted is the most interesting part of the thread. Not saying AVX isn't great, It is, and its absolutely a crusher in shallower conditions..... By a long shot.

Most people who are running the new system fiil the bags and go and for some that works great, but if we are talking getting the most out of that system in regards to comparing it to other systems... then more weight is needed, and alot to wake it up.

I have been in comp AVX's with major major weight.. I can assure you this system with correct weight is superior. Dont believe me? Thats fine Wake9 who has had every system from Tige, shares the same opinion. Tige isnt doing away with a better surf system (AVX) just for the hell of it. Its easy to use with mild weight and its superior at the big league level with big big weight. Those are just the undisputed facts.....

Ill go one further talk to the pros.....

[Germaine Marine]

Dandy hit the nail on the head. The Market demanded level weighting and side-to-side switching on the fly. Tige had no choice if they wanted to remain relevant. Elevated figured out how to make his Z3 spit out a monster wave and he's shared that knowledge on this forum, but he is doing so less efficiently (fuel economy) than an AVX boat would.

Back to the OP's original question. The only way you would get anything to ride with no ballast, might be with using a device like a mission delta, or a Nauticurl, slowing down to get the boat to squat and then playing with Taps and AVX to try and shape it, but that's just a guess on my part. No one has tried that, that I know of, and I would expect it to be short, soft, and hard to ride.

Absolutely...... Fuel efficiency is no where near AVX, not close and not by a mile. And that was always the caveat. It would take way more weight to get the WHOLE hull down displacement wise vs listing I want to say its almost double the needed weight scientifically per THE GERMAN who figured it out with GSA when getting his boat figured out.

But I knew that going in........

[Germaine Marine]

I would believe the answer is "marketing/market share". With the VX/AVX platform, they still had to list the boat. Granted it was less than older hulls and other mfgs. boats, but still had to list. After SurfGate and NSS, the push was for non listed boats in the market place. If Tige didn't move to this, then they ran the risk of market share loss. I believe that the 2016 boats were initially able to be ordered as TAPS3 or AVX. My guess on this was to get inventory ran out.

I am always floored how the boat manufacturers will simply stop carrying/supporting a product once they stop using it in production. It seems that now that they don't use the AlphaZ tower, you could not get a replacement from them (different thread all together). If for some reason, your VX/AVX was damaged, I don't believe you can get a replacement part made.

There is definitely truth to the marketing claims... they tested and tested and tested systems (multiple) during the search to go to what the market was turning to.. A reduction in wave quality though was something they were not ok with.... and that I heard multiple times, on my visits to the factory.

You can still get replacement parts for the AVX and VX albeit it takes some time. Ive seen warranty claim issues for said parts.. how much longer... I dont know.

[Germaine Marine]

Dandy hit the nail on the head. The Market demanded level weighting and side-to-side switching on the fly. Tige had no choice if they wanted to remain relevant. Elevated figured out how to make his Z3 spit out a monster wave and he's shared that knowledge on this forum, but he is doing so less efficiently (fuel economy) than an AVX boat would.

Back to the OP's original question. The only way you would get anything to ride with no ballast, might be with using a device like a mission delta, or a Nauticurl, slowing down to get the boat to squat and then playing with Taps and AVX to try and shape it, but that's just a guess on my part. No one has tried that, that I know of, and I would expect it to be short, soft, and hard to ride.

D&P has had some awesome results coupling the VX and a gate...... His last experiment was amazing, but he fell into the loss of efficiency category if my mind serves me right but the wave was the best I have seen it in comparison to his listed wave...

[jslayde1]

...and this is why I normally just read...

If you have not been in a correctly weighted taps 3 boat then how can you logically give an accurate comparison?

I was trying to be nice and give you some props - I have been in enough taps3 boats to be able to give my personal opinion.

I have been in comp AVX's with major major weight.. I can assure you this system with correct weight is superior. Dont believe me? Thats fine Wake9 who has had every system from Tige, shares the same opinion. Tige isnt doing away with a better surf system (AVX) just for the hell of it. Its easy to use with mild weight and its superior at the big league level with big big weight. Those are just the undisputed facts.....

I am not going to start name dropping and get into what Wake9 thinks, but I will say I know the Wake9 team very well. They have been a huge influence in our decisions/surf abilities thus far. They have helped me dial in my last two boats....on my boat...

Ill go one further talk to the pros.....

I do...all the time.

Just for the record, I am not bashing the Taps3 Z3 at all. I think as others have stated here in this thread, Tige had to go this direction due to the average consumer. I personally just don't think its a superior wave. And, I think that statement is personal opinion.

I think all the boats Tige makes throw a great wave!

[trace]

D&P has had some awesome results coupling the VX and a gate...... His last experiment was amazing, but he fell into the loss of efficiency category if my mind serves me right but the wave was the best I have seen it in comparison to his listed wave...

I know D&P was running that combination, but I thought he was still using his ballast, I was speculating on that combination without ballast per the OP's request and what running changes you might use to try to get it to work.

Agreed, any system boat will fall into the the lack of efficiency category, even an AVX/VX boat if it is running a gate device of any kind.

[Germaine Marine]

...and this is why I normally just read...


I was trying to be nice and give you some props - I have been in enough taps3 boats to be able to give my personal opinion.


I am not going to start name dropping and get into what Wake9 thinks, but I will say I know the Wake9 team very well. They have been a huge influence in our decisions/surf abilities thus far. They have helped me dial in my last two boats....on my boat...


I do...all the time.

Just for the record, I am not bashing the Taps3 Z3 at all. I think as others have stated here in this thread, Tige had to go this direction due to the average consumer. I personally just don't think its a superior wave. And, I think that statement is personal opinion.

I think all the boats Tige makes throw a great wave!

Not all offended and I hope you aren't either, just engaging in a discussion. Yes it is a matter of opinion. Maybe sometime you can head out this way and I'll get you out. I will say this, Unless you are running 4500 the system just can't function correctly in regard to getting a monster.

[jslayde1]

Not all offended and I hope you aren't either, just engaging in a discussion. Yes it is a matter of opinion. Maybe sometime you can head out this way and I'll get you out. I will say this, Unless you are running 4500 the system just can't function correctly in regard to getting a monster.

Oh yeah, no worries man. I will take you up on that someday - and you are welcome on my boat anytime as well!

[D&P Powell]

D&P has had some awesome results coupling the VX and a gate...... His last experiment was amazing, but he fell into the loss of efficiency category if my mind serves me right but the wave was the best I have seen it in comparison to his listed wave...

Loss of efficiency is an understatement. Ate up gas twice as fast as normal! Having said, it's worth it in my opinion. We (theGerman618, elevatedconcept, and I) have tried 3 systems on our boat. I definitely prefer one over the other two, but all 3 made a significant difference in push. The first two systems didnt sell me when comparing our listed wave. The third - well let's just say I dont know if we will ever go back to listed!

I know D&P was running that combination, but I thought he was still using his ballast, I was speculating on that combination without ballast per the OP's request and what running changes you might use to try to get it to work.

Yes Trace, never ran it without the ballast. Don't know how much time chadsanchez has to get an answer on it without ballast, but we (elevated, german, and I) will be on the lake this weekend. I can always test and send pics if anyone is still interested.

[trace]

The third - well let's just say I dont know if we will ever go back to listed!



Yes Trace, never ran it without the ballast. Don't know how much time chadsanchez has to get an answer on it without ballast, but we (elevated, german, and I) will be on the lake this weekend. I can always test and send pics if anyone is still interested.

Well don't leave me hanging, which system did you like best?

And if you have a chance, run it without ballast, data is always a good thing.

[D&P Powell]

Well don't leave me hanging, which system did you like best?

Well, I hesitate to name it only because I realize a) Opinions are like..., and b)What may work great on a 2014 Z1 with VX may not work the same on other models. With that said... we were shocked by the results of https://www.wakesurfedge.com/. Remember, small sample size of only 3 systems - we hope to test a few more this summer.