No Tige Surf 'System'

[IDBoating]

At the end of the day, im not sure a quality reliable electric, would be much of a savings compared to a single reversible that we use for our transfer pumps.

x2 on this. Aerator and impeller pumps are simple and reliable devices whereas electric valves have a nasty history of problems.

A valve-based system can be made to work. Heck, I've read that early ballast systems had a single big pump and a bunch of solenoid-operated valves to direct the water into the proper compartment. But to my knowledge nobody plumbs boats that way anymore, because the valves just aren't a good deal when you consider cost vs. reliability.

[boardman74]

Yep thats the way they did them back when this all started. Most of the stuff was lawn sprinkler valves. They were problematic to say the least.

[Duncan]

At the end of the day, im not sure a quality reliable electric, would be much of a savings compared to a single reversible that we use for our transfer pumps.

So the single reversible transfer pumps requires only one additional outlet in each bag, correct? I presume it is placed at the rear bottom of each bag?

[mnpracing]

So the single reversible transfer pumps requires only one additional outlet in each bag, correct? I presume it is placed at the rear bottom of each bag?

That's right.

[Stingreye]

So the single reversible transfer pumps requires only one additional outlet in each bag, correct? I presume it is placed at the rear bottom of each bag?

Most challenging part was figuring out where to put the switch for me..... I made a small board from a cutting board from walmart but I botched it on install so it looks crappy and I need to redo it. Its functional but looks bad. I mounted mine sideways as WA pointed out.

I think and I can't remember who did it, someone here had it mounted hidden under the helm vs mounting it with all the other switches.

[IDBoating]

So the single reversible transfer pumps requires only one additional outlet in each bag, correct? I presume it is placed at the rear bottom of each bag?

If you do that, the pump is working against the increasing pressure of the destination bag as its fill level rises. It will flow faster at first, but get steadily slower as the bag fills and backpressure builds against the pump.

[Stingreye]

If you do that, the pump is working against the increasing pressure of the destination bag as its fill level rises. It will flow faster at first, but get steadily slower as the bag fills and backpressure builds against the pump.

Again GOLDEN info from chpthril's thread!

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...mparison/page3

Jabsco Ballast Puppy reversible impeller type pump
1" hose and 1" Fly High Fittings filling at the bottom of the sac - Avg fill time = 5:20

1" hose and fittings filling at the top of the sac - Avg fill time 5:15

My math with time stinks but I think thats less than 2% difference? (2% of 6 min * 60 seconds =7 seconds)

For 5 seconds on a 400 lb sac and MAYBE 20-30 seconds on a 1200 lb sac (likely less as you use your fill pump for some of it).

I would go with the much easier and cleaner hose run without check valves, bottom to bottom.

I had similar discussion with Mike and he sold me on the simplicity of the impeller bottom to bottom install.

[cday76]

Most challenging part was figuring out where to put the switch for me..... I made a small board from a cutting board from walmart but I botched it on install so it looks crappy and I need to redo it. Its functional but looks bad. I mounted mine sideways as WA pointed out.

I think and I can't remember who did it, someone here had it mounted hidden under the helm vs mounting it with all the other switches.

Here is how I mounted my rocker switches. What you can't see in the pic is the cover that goes over the switches to protect them from accidental activation. I also put a master switch in the middle to keep the pumps from running if the switch accidentally gets hit. I didn't have a transfer pump hooked up on this RZ2. I had two 1450 Enzo sacs and would fill/drain them with the reversible pumps. I used a 1" hose to a 1" outlet on the outside of the hull with the other ballast outlets. I made a small detachable hose that would go into the lake to fill the sacs. I also had a "y" connector on the hard tank fill that would split and go into the hard tank and the 1450 sac. Fill/switch time was around 5 mins.

IMG_1860.jpg

[chpthril]

No matter the pump, filling into the bottom of the ballast sac, will increase the head pressure and reduce the flow. Thats just a con that we have to take into consideration when doing a transfer pump or even basic install using the reversible pumps. The pros of a reversible transfer pump are a single pump so single wire harness, ability to locate pump just about anywhere, cleaner install without that additional hose in the locker going to the top of the sac. With a pair of aerator pumps, you have to find room to locate that pump right at the bottom of the sac.

[IDBoating]

Again GOLDEN info from chpthril's thread!

Agreed, that thread is a goldmine. Should be stickied if it isn't already.

My math with time stinks but I think thats less than 2% difference? (2% of 6 min * 60 seconds =7 seconds)

Have to admit that's far less difference than I would have expected. That almost within the margin of error. Something doesn't add up, but can't argue with his data!

And I wasn't suggesting that the backpressure issue was a reason to choose between the two pump styles. It was just an extra bit of data in the mix. No question the single connection to the bottom of the bag is easier, but I have lots of room for two pumps and already had the ports to support an aerator style crosspump scheme.

Whatever floats - or in this case sinks! - your boat!

[duffymahoney]

I hate hate hate impellar pumps, so many have fried on me or friends. I have actually pulled 3 systems out that I helped install or I installed and replaced with aerator pumps over the years. Impellar pumps are easier to install and wire but over the life of the boat you should spend the time and effort and install an aerator systems. If you have the room and the knowlege. I also hate the whine of them My rant is over

That being said installing the 3800's was a pain. I probably wouldn't do it again if I had to restart my project. I would probably just do double up the next size smaller rules.

[IDBoating]

I hate hate hate impellar pumps, so many have fried on me or friends. I have actually pulled 3 systems out that I helped install or I installed and replaced with aerator pumps over the years. Impellar pumps are easier to install and wire but over the life of the boat you should spend the time and effort and install an aerator systems.

Each has its advantages and disadvantages. One thing I don't like about impeller pumps is that they require winterization. You can't risk there being water in the impeller in freezing conditions (just like the raw water impeller pump on the engine). So each impeller pump is just another thing to service twice a year. Aerator pumps are easy - blow on each hose as you remove the fat sacs, and winterization is done! Aerators also draw far less current and generally move far more water.

But impellers are nice in that they can draw water while the boat is at speed. Above a certain threshold aerators lose prime. You can also fill and drain through a single shared thruhull, so fewer holes in the boat (particularly above the waterline).

It's all a tradeoff. Pick what you like and go for it!

[chpthril]

One thing I don't like about impeller pumps is that they require winterization.

I cant recall a single impeller pump failure related to improper winterizing, yet theres at least one aerator system with a cracked body, that pops up in spring as a "theres water collecting in my bilge and the ballast wont fill" Some care needs to be taken with both, but an impeller pump can just be run in reverse, once the sac is out. For those that want a little extra piece of mind, pour a little pink down the hose and kick the pump in reverse. What needs serviced twice a year?

Aerators also generally move far more water.

I can debate this one all day long. Reason being, we have basically 2 reversible pumps to choose from, both being close in GPH, but we have aerators from 500 to 3200 GPH. If we do not factor head-pressure, an 800 GPH aerator wins hands down in flow, price, current draw, etc. But when you put it in the context of a real world system, we need to be up to a 1200 GPH pump, just to = the flow of 680 GPH aerator.

[duffymahoney]

Both need to be winterized. I actually use a shop vac and pull ever drop of water out of every hose.

[IDBoating]

I actually use a shop vac and pull ever drop of water out of every hose.

So do I. Cheaper than medicating for OCD, don'cha know. Same with the v-drive, transmission cooler, ports on the raw water pump, engine block drain holes, etc. I'm in there already and the stuff is already open for draining, so why not?