SpeedSet and FAE Questions (2007 22Ve)

[Dandy]

Hi All - Looking for a little help on these 2 things.

We were FINALLY able to get our boat on the water this year. Took her out last night for about 1.5 hours to run through the systems and make sure everything is running and functioning correctly. My wife and I have always ran out boat alone the first outing of the season, that way we are confident things are working when we take guests out. Here is where I could use some help, guidance, opinions...

FAE: We installed our FAE this Spring. We have not had FAE on any of our other boats. As has been stated, it really does seem to keep the noise down. Oddly, our 2007 22Ve (340 MP Motor) was quieter than our 2013 Z1 (PCM) or our 2014 G23 (PCM w/Surf Pipe) so now it is REALLY quiet. At idle when we were filling the ballast or even idling ahead really slow (throttle just to forward) we were STILL smelling exhaust fumes.

Is this common?

If we had an exhaust leak inside the engine compartment (hypothetically) would this not be leaking water into the bilge?

I was under the impressing that the exhaust system is “wetted” – I have been wrong before. If so, we didn’t have any water leaking into the bilge. I was pulling the cover over the VDrive and ballast pumps along with the engine cover occasionally to keep an eye on things.

SPEEDSET: Last year, using SpeedSet, we noticed that the RPMs and speed would increase/decrease/increase/decrease. I thought this may have been from cavitation, since we still had the 537 prop or a bad paddlewheel. In the off-season, we upgraded the prop to the 1235 and installed a Nautic Laugic GPS upgrade. To make sure the Nautic Laugic was registering correctly, I compared it to the GPS reading through an app on my phone and it was darn close. We still had the variation. With SpeedSet set at 11.5 we would see the speed drop to around 10.5 and push back up to around 12 or slightly higher.
So my question: Is there a way to adjust the sensitivity of the unit to keep a more consistent speed. As the speed changed up and down, you could see the change in the wave. I didn’t think that this issue would be related to the pad itself.

Thanks in advance for any help, guidance or just opinions!
-Dan D (Dandy)

[Germaine Marine]

You will get exhaust fumes under those circumstances Dandy.. the exhaust is being dumped right below the swim step. At idle or one click in gear, the exhaust is still exiting in the same area just a little deeper which means its still going to bubble up in the same location.

The FAE ditches the exhaust down and into the prop wash and is really only noticed at speed, where the exhaust is carried in the wash under the water and back up behind the rider at surf speed.

At Idle or at wakeboard/tube/ski speed you wont notice a difference fumes wise.

Noise wise however, will be much quieter across the board. As its now always under some sort of water.

[Thegerman618]

I can speak to the speedset issue.

Your speedset is not ran off your paddlewheel or now your nauticlogic. Your speedset is connected to the ECM and monitors RPM not speed. That is why your are getting the stumble to find and hold speed. It is also why when pulling a rider up the speedset will often overshoot the speed by up to 7 mph before it catches itself and comes back down and often struggles to hold speed especially surfing because of weight. I ran all manner of weights and setups in 24ve and even had an aftermarket speedset panel from IDBoating (search Speedset Threads). When I had big weight in the boat I didn't even bother with the speedset it was almost to risky with it overshooting the speed by so much and with 4000lbs in the boat could have easily blew my trans.

As I am sure you are aware, and just in case your not. You do need to give the boat full control of the throttle cable, IE. WOT other wise you will also get a stumble as the boat is trying to add power and the throttle is not set to point where it can maintain the set/desired speed.

[Thegerman618]

As far as the FAE/Fumes issue.

I also had an FAE on my boat, and have a few questions for ya. There was some variations in exhaust setups from 06-08 regarding the direction of the risers and the type of wet exhaust that was used. (you are correct they are wet exhausts)

Do your Riser go forward or aft?
Forward meaning toward the bow, down via 4" Wet Exhaust hose, typically then to 2 mufflers (Usually produced by a company called CENTEK) the back to 4" wet exhaust hose to the exit.

Aft meaning the Wet Exhaust hose to the giant SINGLE Fiberglass unit that goes down the back of the activity center to 2 90 degree angles and wet exhaust hose to the exit.

There has been a common known issue that the dual "forward Setup" with 2 mufflers under the motor tend to crack and leak water. To a point a friend of mine almost lost their 24Ve after noticing their auto bilge kicking on and staying on for long periods of time.

The fumes you are getting are interesting. I ran an FAE on my VE with same motor for 2 years and never got smell, and yes it is ultra quiet. I thought something was wrong the first time I started it with the FAE on.

Fumes can be any matter of other little issues, my honest guess you have old gas. You mentioned first trip of the season for you, and the gas as been sitting all winter. Even with stabilizer that fuel can turn on you. Run as much out of it as you can and fill with some good 91 OCT I bet it goes away.

[Dandy]

As far as the FAE/Fumes issue.

I also had an FAE on my boat, and have a few questions for ya. There was some variations in exhaust setups from 06-08 regarding the direction of the risers and the type of wet exhaust that was used. (you are correct they are wet exhausts)

Do your Riser go forward or aft?
Forward meaning toward the bow, down via 4" Wet Exhaust hose, typically then to 2 mufflers (Usually produced by a company called CENTEK) the back to 4" wet exhaust hose to the exit.

Aft meaning the Wet Exhaust hose to the giant SINGLE Fiberglass unit that goes down the back of the activity center to 2 90 degree angles and wet exhaust hose to the exit.

There has been a common known issue that the dual "forward Setup" with 2 mufflers under the motor tend to crack and leak water. To a point a friend of mine almost lost their 24Ve after noticing their auto bilge kicking on and staying on for long periods of time.

The fumes you are getting are interesting. I ran an FAE on my VE with same motor for 2 years and never got smell, and yes it is ultra quiet. I thought something was wrong the first time I started it with the FAE on.

Fumes can be any matter of other little issues, my honest guess you have old gas. You mentioned first trip of the season for you, and the gas as been sitting all winter. Even with stabilizer that fuel can turn on you. Run as much out of it as you can and fill with some good 91 OCT I bet it goes away.

Thank you for the reply. I will take a look and probably take a few pics and let you know about the risers. I am pretty sure that my mufflers do not go under the motor, but are on the far port and starboard of the lower bilge area. Again, I will take a look, most likely tomorrow and report back.

Again, I don't think it is a muffler crack as there was NO water added to the bilge last night. When I pulled the plug at the landing nothing came out - keep in mind we didn't have any wet riders getting in and out of the boat. The only water in the bilge was the low spot in front of the VDrive and that has been there for a while - it's actually antifreeze from winterizing.

You are correct that I had about 1/2 tank of fuel from last season left. Instead of running it down, I thought may be best to mix in some good quality fuel. Our local station finally started carrying 91 OCT that is Ethanol Free. I put in about 15 gallon of that last night and added the according amount of Marine Stabil. Do you think I would be better running this out and then filling if it is an old fuel issue or continue to mix in new?

Thanks again

[Dandy]

I can speak to the speedset issue.

Your speedset is not ran off your paddlewheel or now your nauticlogic. Your speedset is connected to the ECM and monitors RPM not speed. That is why your are getting the stumble to find and hold speed. It is also why when pulling a rider up the speedset will often overshoot the speed by up to 7 mph before it catches itself and comes back down and often struggles to hold speed especially surfing because of weight. I ran all manner of weights and setups in 24ve and even had an aftermarket speedset panel from IDBoating (search Speedset Threads). When I had big weight in the boat I didn't even bother with the speedset it was almost to risky with it overshooting the speed by so much and with 4000lbs in the boat could have easily blew my trans.

As I am sure you are aware, and just in case your not. You do need to give the boat full control of the throttle cable, IE. WOT other wise you will also get a stumble as the boat is trying to add power and the throttle is not set to point where it can maintain the set/desired speed.

WOW - I learned a couple of things. So, the SpeedSet is actually RPM based and NOT speed based at all? On a previous boat with PP Stargazer (which I installed - I prefer GPS inputs) I had an RPM or Speed option, always ran it on speed since it was more consistent. If it is ONLY RPM based, I guess I wasted a bit of $$ on the NauticLogic upgrade I am really bummed to know that this is only an RPM based system.

Do you, or anyone reading, know of a system that I can upgrade to that will work as a speed based control? I do know about IDBoating's pad as I purchased one to have as a spare. I figured that sooner or later it WILL be needed. Are you sure it needs to be WOT? Any other speed control system, the throttle just had to be enough past to hold the speed and not WOT. I don't mean to doubt you, but I would be surprised if the system required WOT to function correctly, unless it is in the programming.

Thanks again for your help and feedback. It is much appreciated.

[Germaine Marine]

You are going to get some fumes at idle or one click into gear depending on where you are. The exhaust is being dumped right below the swim step. Some people might be more sensitive then others but the fact remains that while at idle or one lick in gear the air is rising to the surface right around the swim step.

[chpthril]

I believe tige speed set is based on speed, as they dont engage when paddle wheel is dead. However, the system was designed to have the throttle buried once engaged. Leaving the throttle at the point of engagement would cause a surge. Changing from paddle wheel to GPS speed input should not change that as the ECM doesnt know the source of or how the speed is supplied, simply that its supplied. So next time out, bury the throttle once you feel the system take over and see if that cures it.

Any no-wake speed can get the station wagon exhaust effect. I would chalk that up to normal, with or without FAE.

[Thegerman618]

It is RPM Based, I helped Richard (IDBoating) with the testing of his new designed panels and providing power readings and followed his research very carefully. The Speedset is ran through the ECM which reads the engine speed the RPM digitally. However the ECM will not engage the Speedset until the RPM goes over 1500 which is why you can idle/cruise back to pick up riders without the speedset trying to engage.

Your Nauticlogic is still a huge benefit. Although it is not connected to your speedset, it will help significantly to find the exact speed you're looking for.

I would run as much fuel out of it as you can then fill with fresh clean 91 oct. I am not disputing that CHPTHRIL or ELEVATED are wrong about the fumes and the station wagon effect they are 100% correct. What may also help out a lot is this station wagon is greatly increased if you roll around with your center window closed and even worse if you have a wind dam up. If your not already try leaving the center window open when cruising around it allows for the air to pass straight through and blow some of the exhaust back and away.

[Thegerman618]

It is RPM Based, I helped Richard (IDBoating) with the testing of his new designed panels and providing power readings and followed his research very carefully. The Speedset is ran through the ECM which reads the engine speed the RPM digitally. However the ECM will not engage the Speedset until the RPM goes over 1500 which is why you can idle/cruise back to pick up riders without the speedset trying to engage.

Your Nauticlogic is still a huge benefit. Although it is not connected to your speedset, it will help significantly to find the exact speed you're looking for.

I would run as much fuel out of it as you can then fill with fresh clean 91 oct. I am not disputing that CHPTHRIL or ELEVATED are wrong about the fumes and the station wagon effect they are 100% correct. What may also help out a lot is this station wagon is greatly increased if you roll around with your center window closed and even worse if you have a wind dam up. If your not already try leaving the center window open when cruising around it allows for the air to pass straight through and blow some of the exhaust back and away.

[Germaine Marine]

knowledge bomb^

[retox1]

Marine power claims the Speedset uses the paddle wheel for reference. At least in the email I just got from them.

[Dandy]

@Thegerman618 - I checked out our boat and we do have the 2 forward facing exhaust risers. I don't believe there are any issues with the mufflers however since there was not water being added to the bilge.
MP340.jpg
I do appreciate the info and all the other feedback and now I know it is something to keep an eye on. I am hoping to find a heated space to rent this winter so that I can check a bunch of projects off the boat list since up here in MN, we can't get much done in the winter months without heat. If I get a space, maybe I will invest in a couple SST mufflers from FAE and see if Larry can equip them with a flange so that I can through bolt my FAE onto a flange inside the hull. So much to do, so little time.

There seems to be conflicting info regarding the SpeedSet. Next time out, I will have to bury the throttle and see if that works better.

Everyone - please keep any thoughts or feedback on this coming. I greatly appreciate it.

[Thegerman618]

i agree if you are not getting any water in the bilge then your mufflers are likely fine.

Would highly recommend either the SST exhaust mufflers from Larry, or just running straight wet exhaust hose and deleting the mufflers all together. Either way will work great.

Dandy-How far are you from Duluth? I may be out that way in a few months.

[Dandy]

Dandy-How far are you from Duluth? I may be out that way in a few months.

We are about a 2.5 hour drive. We are pretty close to center of the state -North to South and East to West. We are in the St. Cloud area in the event you are bored and want to look at a map