Kinetik and Lead Acid Wet Cell

[chpthril]

Micah was bouncing some stereo/battery bank ideas off me for his sweet new stereo upgrade, and I need some input.

He wants to run a Kinetik 2000 for the system, and wants to keep this "house" battery separated from the other battery. He will not have access to power when the boat is back in storage, so an on-board charger is not and option. It will need to be charged by the alt, so this is my question/concern.

I'm not real familiar with these Kinetiks, so my question is - does anyone see any issues with running one off the alternator, through a combiner/isolator, along with a tradition lead acid wet cell battery(s). I dont know if you would run into an undercharged condition like with an Optima and LAWC in a mixed setup? Any one running a setup like this.

*EDIT*
From the Kinetik FAQ's

Mixing Different Battery Technologies
Kinetik Power Cells are compatible with most standard 12 volt charging systems and battery technologies. We do however advise using Kinetik Power Cells exclusively throughout the vehicle for maximum voltage, performance and longevity of aftermarket electronics as well as the Power cells. This will minimize self discharging of the power storage devices in the vehicle while not in use also. Kinetik Power Cells have a very low self discharge rate much lower than that of a standard ‘wet cell’ car battery. When different types of power storage devices (batteries or Power Cells) are used in parallel in an electrical system, current will have a tendency to flow between storage devices unnecessarily resulting in heat build up and loss of power where it is needed most. When Kinetik Power Cells are used throughout the install, current will flow directly from the Power Cells to the load in a balanced manner minimizing ‘fighting’ between unlike storage devices.

How do I charge and test my Kinetik Power Cells?
Kinetik Power Cells can be charged in a properly functioning vehicle charging system or with any high quality 12 volt battery charger. For best results and maximum power output and lifecycle for outboard charging, use a Kinetik power supply or maintainer to charge and maintain your Power Cell. If you are charging with an automotive type charger always use chargers that are “voltage regulated, two stage, Automatic or microprocessor controlled”. Do not use chargers that only have amp settings such as 2, 5 or 10 amp settings that do not regulate voltage. These chargers increase in voltage as the battery or Power Cell charges leading to an over voltage situation that will ruin the cell. This is true for any 12 volt battery or Power Cell. The proper charging range for Kinetik Power Cells is between 13.5 and 14.4 volts. Any quality battery charger will stay in this range. To “bulk” charge or quick charge your Power Cell for one to three hours use voltages between 14 and 14.4 volts. To saturate (fully charge) or maintain your Power Cell for extended periods of times up to months at a time, use a float voltage between 13.5 and 13.8 volts. Kinetik power supplies and maintainers automatically switch from bulk to float charge as needed during the charging process to optimize the performance, lifecycle and charging time of your Power Cell.

[philwsailz]

CHP-

I have recently been turned on to an additional type of device that seems to me to be the best solution, and it is not excessivly pricey. The device is a battery combiner, AKA Automatic Charge Relay.

See this link at West Marine:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...classNum=12106


Here is the manufacturer's link:
http://bluesea.com/products/7600

To me, the thing makes a lot of sense. A quick glance shows me that the only thing I need to study is the current rating of the device, to see what that really means. That is not the load current, as the devie goes only between your alt and your batt. banks... I have to believe it would handle charging from a 75A alternator, since htat seems to be pretty common...

[philwsailz]

My point is that the ACR seems like an okay choice for charging different types of batteries. In addition, it is not a diode device, the the .7V loss across a typical battery isolator is not present; you can charge your house and backup to full alternator output.

[chpthril]

Ok, here is a preliminary wiring diagram for Micah's system. He wants to keep the 2 current batteries intact and separate from the stereo battery. Because he will not have a place to charge when off the water, the stereo battery must be on the Alt.

So far, no issues found with running a Kinetik with other batteries linked through an Iso/Combiner.

Feedback?

[Micah]

Chpthril or Phil, There was the same question on wakeworld earlier today so I posted the diagram I was planning to use. There are a few people saying it will not work the way we want it to. I was wondering if you could check the link and see what you think http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/m...tml?1205961298

Thanks

[chpthril]

Chpthril or Phil, There was the same question on wakeworld earlier today so I posted the diagram I was planning to use. There are a few people saying it will not work the way we want it to. I was wondering if you could check the link and see what you think http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/m...tml?1205961298

Thanks

I replied to the WW thread. I think we are good to go.

Marty McFly, don't worry about about the "flux capacitor" as Nacho suggested, and nubu finds something wrong with everything, unless Malibu invented it, but never has anything viable to back it up.

[spharis]

That drawing will work fine.

[chpthril]

Thanks, Sp.

[CP3]

Why do you need to hook the kinetik battery into the switch? I would think you would want run the islator before before the switch , so they are seperated before the switch and then you wouldnt run into any problem because all the stereo is running off the kinetik and not connected to the other batteries in any other way I know its probably a stupid idea......thats what I get for thinking

[chpthril]

Why do you need to hook the kinetik battery into the switch? I would think you would want run the islator before before the switch , so they are seperated before the switch and then you wouldnt run into any problem because all the stereo is running off the kinetik and not connected to the other batteries in any other way:02: I know its probably a stupid idea......thats what I get for thinking

Good Question,

It's not really wired to the switch, but attached at the "common" terminal on the switch so it get Alt voltage when the engine is running. In theory, you could attach it to the alt or starter and would get the same effect, but the switch is easier to get to and a shorter run.

1st, you dont want to disconnect the voltage source (alt) from the loads (batteries). If the Iso ever opened with the engine running, it will fry the alt. 2nd, you want the Iso between the "house" (kinetik) battery, and the "starting" battery, to prevent the stereo from running the starter down with engine off. Remember, the Iso/Combiner is nothing more then a lazy man's Perko, and you dont ever want to run the engine with the switch in the OFF position.

[CP3]

Ok so on mine should I run the isolator before the swtich or after?

[chpthril]

Ok so on mine should I run the isolator before the switch or after?

Did you decide on a Diode Isolator, or an ACR (auto combining relay) ?

[CP3]

already bought the diode isolator before anything was said about an ACR

[chpthril]

already bought the diode isolator before anything was said about an ACR

Then your system will be different, but work very similar.

[spharis]

Your diode isolator is wired sort of the same depending on how many batteries you have. Basically it goes in place of the combiner switch on a typical install, and can be done in series with the combiner switch for override functionality. I think the same company makes a kit that contains an isolator diode and the combiner switch in one.