Bigger Gauge Wire?

[zad0030]

My Ground setup:
Main ground goes to the battery.
Additional ground wire to reduce buzzing from taps and blower goes from amp to HU.
The fan is grounded to the amp.

With all additional grounds off (noise and fan) blower noise came through, taps, and when i turn the nav lights on theres a click. If I add the noise ground, all of that goes away. If i take it off and then add the fan directly to the amp ground, the fan comes through very loudly. Then If i put on both additional grounds, blower, taps, and nav lights go away but the fan is minimized quite a bit but I can still hear it.

Before I run a wire all the way to the battery, I have another thought. Im thinking that If I run a bigger gauge wire to reduce the noise it will take care of the fan completely. Will that work or is my common sense lying to me?

[dogbert]

Your amp/HU needs it's own ground to the battery. All those other devices will just add to your noise level.

[zad0030]

I know its hooked up to the Key switch but Im not sure where the ground is for the HU.

[dogbert]

The easiest solution is to go buy a ground isolator. Any electronics store that carries car audio equipment will have one. It'll fix your problem.

[zad0030]

So all I need is something like this and I can do away with that extra ground and my noise problems will be gone forever?

[dogbert]

At least the buzzing sound.

[philwsailz]

Guys, I have to share...

Simple answer first: grounding the fan to the amp is not ideal. I assume you are speaking of an amp cooling fan, right? Regardless, it is a motor, and therefore really needs its own wire all the way to the battery, IMHO I do not THINK a larger wire will eliminate the problem, as the source of the noise is still right there.

This is a common problem in most every boat being built today. I have noise in my boat, and I can share that there are three different boat builders out there today that I know of that are fighting the same issues.

It all comes down to pops from switches and buzzing from motors, (fans and pumps). This noise almost always is finding its way into the stereo through the power wire. Sometimes it is radiated through the air, like little lightning static pops, but most of the time it is in the wire.

Despite the fact that ultimately all of the juice comes from one place, i.e. the battery, there are some fundamentals that will help.

* Radio and amplifier(s) on their own dedicated wiring. most radios get their power in the harness. Use a relay in the harness to keep keyed accessory switching, but run all radio power and ground straight to the battery.

* If you are experiencing noise after replacing the radio wiring, move the radio ground to the amp to take advantage of the power supply filtering that is going on right inside.

* I have had good luck with adding extra capacitors to the radio power wire right at the back of the radio. These are placed in parallel to the power source, i.e. one cap lead to the positive wire, and one cap lead to ground.

* Ground Loop Isolators on the RCA cables are somewhat a bandaid in my opinion, but they are a very easy and relatively inexpensive way to get rid of the noise.

* Do not use the stereo power wiring for anything else; no blowers, no switched accessories, no NOTHING. Yeah, it is easy to ground the amp cooling fan there, but more often than not, you will put fan noise into the stereo.

* Gains... High-voltage radio outputs allow for lower gain settings at the amplifier(s). Lower gain means a quieter system. The old joke about turning the car radio up to mask the noise of something wrong is somewhat true in this case. Follow me...
The noise we are fighting has no volume control; the H/U does. IF we can use the H/U at higher settings, we can turn the gain at the amps down for the same output at the speaker. Turning the gains down means less amplification of the bad noise, and it will be less noticeable.


Unfortunately, there is no universal fix, as there is enough variability from boat to boat and stereo to stereo...

[spharis]

And you will never have a noise free system. It might not be audible, but there is always noise.

[dogbert]

Great summary, Phil! Unfortunately, almost every one of our boats comes from the factory with the HU wired to the accessory switch and the harness.

[philwsailz]

Great summary, Phil! Unfortunately, almost every one of our boats comes from the factory with the HU wired to the accessory switch and the harness.

I know; have been unsuccessful making the case for moving the wiring.


OH, one other thing to make sure, and it has been sort of touched on, but not pointed to: A fully charged battery will make the system quieter, as the entire electrical system is less susceptible to the little voltage sags/pops that show up as noise in the audio system...

[philwsailz]

In case anyone is wondering about my suggestion about using a relay to keep switched accessory working, while installing a dedicated power and ground for the radio, here is a quick crude schematic.

Please note the radio ground suggestion has two options, one straight to the battery, and the other to the amp ground, use one or the other but not both.

[zad0030]

Thank you Phil for your lengthy explination. You have convinced me to run it to the battery.

And you will never have a noise free system. It might not be audible, but there is always noise.

As long as I can't hear it I'll be ok.

[talltigeguy]

I like Phil's idea. I have considered going straight to the battery, but I know that the stereo is just one more thing to turn off and it always gets forgotten, so if a relay can be placed to the key, that would be nice.

I think chpthrill has his directly to the battery, the bonus would be no stoppage of music when you start the boat.

[zad0030]

In case anyone is wondering about my suggestion about using a relay to keep switched accessory working, while installing a dedicated power and ground for the radio, here is a quick crude schematic.

Please note the radio ground suggestion has two options, one straight to the battery, and the other to the amp ground, use one or the other but not both.

That is similar to what my setup is. Only my yellow wire is attached to one of the 12v outlets.

[chpthril]

I like Phil's idea. I have considered going straight to the battery, but I know that the stereo is just one more thing to turn off and it always gets forgotten, so if a relay can be placed to the key, that would be nice.

I think chpthrill has his directly to the battery, the bonus would be no stoppage of music when you start the boat.

I did move mine from the switch to a Batt. because I hate having the radio turn of when I turn the key from RUN to ACC. Sirius take about 10 secs to re-aquire after the radio comes back on

Downside: The Clarion CMD4 H/U has a yellow "memory" wire which is actually the load carrying wire and a red "power" wire that is nothing more than a trigger to power up the H/U. The CMD4 has a cooling fan that runs anytime there is 12v's on the red wire, whether or not the H/U is turned or off by the ON/OFF power button on the face.

Solution: Run the red trigger through a toggle switch on the dash so I can kill the H/U at the end of the day when we come off the water.

Sorry to get Zad. One thing, I dont know has been mentioned, but check the ground from your battery(s) to the engine block. Should be clean a tight.