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**Snowline Academy** · 05-02-2017, 04:35 AM

Congrats on being in the market!! That's a huge step! I have a 2006 20V and love it. We are in the market in the next year for a new boat. So here are a few things I've learned: ballast is everything. Buying a boat without a ballast system is like buying a sports car with the smallest engine possible. Great body but no guts. You can spend $150-200 per fat sack and $100 on a ballast pump to fill bags in the ballastless boat. Our boat came with ballast but we replaced all the stock tanks with Eight.3 plug n play bags. 800# in each of the rear lockers and 400# in each of the front compartments. We also put an 800# bag in the walkway and have the Eight.3 wakeshaper on the side of the boat. The wave is awesome for what our boat is. Lengthnof wave is improved by length of boat. So the 23 LSV AND 24ve are your best bets for a long wave. Malibu is an awesome manufacturer. The wake plate is something people either love or hate for surfing but for wakeboarding it's awesome. The malibu's boat will have more bells and whistles out the gate. In the malibu scenario you'll still want to add more weight to the boat, but you'll at least be starting with something. You'll also want to look into a wake shaper. Delta or Swell have great suction cup options. If you were looking at say a 2010 or newer I'd go for the z1 or Z3 but between the year and price point I'd have to point you towards the malibu. Just not real impressed with the turn key ability of the older Tige' boats. The new ones are epic and I wouldn't get anything else. But the older ones, there's lots of good stuff out there. Be sure to checkout www.onlyinboards.com hope that helps!

**dukesofhazzard** · 05-02-2017, 05:51 AM

Maybe I can shed some light on this, as I was in the same boat as you per se. I didn't want a 24' boat so that ruled that out. Malibus are very flat across the back and take alot of weight to get there but it'll surf. Wakeboard wake pretty hard to beat. Now I wanted a boat that could do everything too. Researched like crazy and the 22ve or 22 rz2 were at the top of my list for what I could afford. Having it without ballast is prob. almost best case scenario as you can design it from the hull up and have the best system. You will need custom sacs for that, contact Mikes Liquid Audio for all that. bags pumps etc. We do everything behind our boat and love it. It makes a pretty mackin surf wake and looks good doing it. atleast I think. If you are looking newer I wouldn't go z1 until the newer hull came out, I believe 2013 for that. some z3 in 2012. with the 22ve you can list it and have a super clean wave with a reasonable amount on either side of boat. or you can load it up fairly level stick a suc gate on it, still working on best wave for this yet but it is still really good. You will def want a vdrive to say the least. good luck.

**CarFanatic** · 05-02-2017, 03:12 PM

go tige if you want to surf!! malibus don't surf well unless they have surf gate.

**sandm** · 05-02-2017, 03:14 PM

2012 22ve will be for sale in 2 weeks once I get it back from green bay to slc utah. hit me up if you're interested... it'll be a good deal.
garage kept, only spent a total of 4 nights on the water. 125-ish hours and pretty loaded up with big stereo and regular side chpthrl ballast and pump upgrades.

**IDBoating** · 05-02-2017, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by Snowline Academy View Post

Buying a boat without a ballast system is like buying a sports car with the smallest engine possible.

With all due respect, I offer a different opinion. I think you're actually better off buying a boat with no built-in or "factory" ballast because it gives you maximum flexibility to optimize the ballast system for your own needs.

For example, a close friend trailers to local lakes and has three small children. That means they're doing day trips and they have to be completely self-contained with boards, tubes, food, water, towels, clothing, etc. They need storage space for all that stuff, so the ballast system he installed takes that into account. On the other hand, we live on waterfront property right on a lake and have a dock and boathouse. We don't need any storage space at all because we just pop back to the house to switch between activities, people, grab a snack, go to the bathroom, whatever. So OUR ballast system is totally slammed and maxed out to give us the largest and best wave possible at the expense of storage space that we don't need anyway.

If your future boat has a factory system, you're either stuck with that or working around it (sacs over hard tanks is common) or ripping it out to replace it. If your future boat is totally empty and open, then the sky's the limit and you can design a system that gives you max ballast, max storage room, or anything in between.

Just my alternative viewpoint. I wouldn't shy away from a boat without a ballast system... in fact, I'd prefer it. You can use that fact to negotiate a lower price, knowing all the while that you're better off anyway!

**akdoc** · 05-02-2017, 03:38 PM

I have a 2006 24ve and its been a great boat. Buying a boat without ballast would be fine if you are willing to put the work in and money to plumb your own system. There are so many great build threads on here it will be easy for you. Chpthrl will be a great person to get in contact with if you end up with a boat without ballast. The only thing I don't like on my 24ve is the Tige SpeedSet, it works but can be tricky to get to catch at surf speeds. The wakeboard wake and surf wake behind a 24ve can be exceptional. If you are local to Kansas City I would be willing to help with ballast install if you need it. Good luck with your search!

**BCRider** · 05-02-2017, 03:41 PM

I agree with both Dukesofhazzard and IDBoating.

It's not a sports car with a small engine. It's the difference of a base model to a loaded with options. In this case ballast wasn't an option back then and if it was it wasn't adequate to begin with. My 09 and Dukes 10 22ve both came with ballast and we still replaced with bigger and better.

**BCRider** · 05-02-2017, 03:42 PM

I agree with both Dukesofhazzard and IDBoating.

It's not a sports car with a small engine. It's the difference of a base model to a loaded with options. In this case ballast wasn't an option back then and if it was it wasn't adequate to begin with. My 09 and Dukes 10 22ve both came with ballast and we still replaced with bigger and better.

**GzeroX5** · 05-02-2017, 04:20 PM

My 2 cents...go with the 24Ve. I love the room in our boat! I've got 3 kids too (7, 12, 16) and they're now in the phase of brining friends when we go out. Add them to another family we usually go with (sister-in-law), and we're easily 4 adults and 7 kids but its never too cramped. We trailer, so as ID mentioned we bring lots of stuff too.

As for sports, our boat didn't have any factory ballast, and I'm sooooo glad it didn't! We started with wakeboarding and tubing, but as we've gotten older we're definitely surfing more. Lucky for us it turns out that the 24Ve has a fantastic hull for surfing. With lots of people in the boat I wasn't thinking about ballast, and since we were all pretty much learning how to surf, going rope-less wasn't really happening. Last year I invested ~$400 in a surfside fat sack and a pump over the side to see what the fuss was about. What a difference! Now I go rope-less every time and my wife and daughters are just about to (probably this year). Also, the ballast obviously compensates for when it's just my family, and still allows a good enough wake. This year, I'm installing custom sacks from Mike and automating the system. I would bet that at least half of my surf crew will be rope-less by the end of summer! As mentioned before, not having a ballast system allowed me to incrementally build it up. Plus, a 10 year old ballast system would likely need some renovation anyway.

Good luck!

**akdoc** · 05-02-2017, 10:26 PM

A little older but with low hours and a decent price. https://loz.craigslist.org/boa/6109692545.html

**kcfandjc** · 05-03-2017, 02:37 AM

Thanks everyone for the feedback! Getting something without a ballast and adding a custom system later is certainly an option. I added a MonsterTower and tower speakers to my current boat, so I'm pretty confident that I could do it given enough free time. Although it would be nice to get it all at once and not have to argue with the wife about spending more money on the boat later on. :-)

@sandm - I appreciate the info, but that's a little farther than I want to drive. I'm in the northwest corner of Arkansas.

@akdoc - I really appreciate the offer to help with a custom install. Unfortunately, I'm about 3 1/2 hours from KC. Although I am up there every once in a while (big Royals fan and have brother-in-law up there.) I did notice that 2004 24V the other day. I was hoping to maybe go take a look at it this weekend, but my oldest is playing in a baseball tournament, so that probably won't happen.

If anyone has anything else to add I would love to hear it. Just trying to gather as much information as I can. I just posted a similar question on the Malibu forum, so I'm curious to see how the opinions differ between the forums (if they do).

Thanks again!

**skiguy** · 05-03-2017, 02:40 AM

Another perspective. Malibu makes a good boat for sure but the taps system makes a huge difference with ride comfort. I have a good friend who has a 22ft Nautique and while at the lake together under breezy conditions with choppy water we had a 3 mile run to our surf spot and he simply couldn't keep up with me. I was able to adjust my hull angle to increase our comfort and maintain a good pace. My friend on the other hand could only go about 75% of my speed and they still were a bit roughed up when they arrived at our destination.

23ft or bigger would be my recommendation. They take more ballast to get the surf right but the extra 'move around' room for friends and family and the extra storage is totally worth it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**NICKYPOO** · 05-03-2017, 04:54 PM

My $.02 On that Malibu. It's very pretty and very comfortable and the wakeboard wake is just about unbeatable. That's where it ends for me. The surf wake is atrocious in stock configuration (stock ballast + wedge). It's almost unsurfable. Terrible shape (no transition and near zero push). I've seen them be great but, not without some serious ballast and some kind of gate. It just was never designed to surf well. You gotta remember that wake surfing was fairly new at that time. A good surfboat of the day was an accident. Enter Tige. Accidentally great surf boats. Back to the 'Bu. One the most important factors for me is construction. If I'm going to out on a lake, especially any big lake, I want the boat to be tougher than nails. I've seen first hand the way those Malibus were made at that time and I would classify them as disturbingly thin. My boss at the time had just bought a brand new 23' LSV. His third time out, his wife drifted into the corner of the dock and it shoved the side of the hull in and separated a good two feet of the seam. You could give it a little push and the side of the boat would flex in a good 3-4" but only a small scratch on it. He didn't even realize anything was wrong until he was washing it when he got home and it "fell in". In comparison, a friend had just bought a brand new '06 22Ve. His third time out (I know, it just so happened this way) his wife hit the corner of a dock, albeit a different dock, and hit it hard. It punched a softball size hole in the side. No seam damage, no flexing. Just a big hole. The same shop fixed both boats. I asked him (the shop owner) about both boats and how they were constructed. He said he would never own a Malibu after what he saw and the Tige was a tank. Given thickness of the hull and the size of the hole in it, the same hit would have sunk that Malibu. The boss got sick of trying to surf that Malibu and sold it a year later and my buddy still has his Tige.

**Chugh2o** · 05-03-2017, 07:55 PM

I say go with the little bit newer 2006-07 24ve because a great wave and a little more updated then add a ballast system so it is the way you want it

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Tige 22ve vs. 24ve vs. Wakesetter 23 LSV

Tige 22ve vs. 24ve vs. Wakesetter 23 LSV

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