FLIP OR FLOP!

[MTtigekid]

No offense meant here Zad but maybe as you get a bit older you'll see the bigger picture because right now you're still missing it, and trying to wage a war of book smart words over common sense won't get you there.

yo dog.. umm were the ones the will end up dealing with the "bigger picture" in the future, i think zad has the right idea IMO

go young guns!!

[Razzman]

Whatever, i'm just glad i won't be around when this "new and progressive" thinking youngest generation totally hoses everything. It won't be pretty that's for sure.

[MTtigekid]

Whatever, i'm just glad i won't be around when this "new and progressive" thinking youngest generation totally hoses everything. It won't be pretty that's for sure.

hahaha, who then got us into the situation that we are currently in?

[zad0030]

Whatever, i'm just glad i won't be around when this "new and progressive" thinking youngest generation totally hoses everything. It won't be pretty that's for sure.

I really dont want to turn this into another arguement, we have enough of those going around lately.

Obviously I still fail to see this BIG PICTURE. So please enlighten me.

I feel I covered every aspect in depth in my last post.

As far as the future I don't think things can get too much worse then they are now. The saddest part is that we fell into the same trap that we did back in the 1920s. Shouldn't that teach us something. Obviously the young generation of that era learned something becuase they were able to recover and turn the country around. Now the next generation seemed to fall back in the same trap. Now its my generations job to recover.

Let me ask you something. When you were my age, were you thinking about your future? Were you thinking about what you were going to do with your life? Were you thinking about what state this country is going to be in when you grow up and become a part of it? Were you thinking about how you can impact the world? Because let me tell you what, I am. And It scares the hell out of me. Because I dont know what its going to be like, but I can prepare the best I can. So that when the time comes I am ready. So is that what you did at age 17 or were you more worried about getting laid next weekend or where you wake up tomorrow?

As for oil goes, this country should have starting moving away from its dependence on it in the 70s. Its been stated in this thread before that the technology used in cars, and now this boat, have been around for decades in Diesel trains.

[MoneyPity]

Well spoken Zad

[MTtigekid]

bravo my man!!

[chpthril]

Last year when we replaced a tow vehicle I was really serious about the Tahoe Hybrid. It had the ability to tow my 20V and when on batteries performance was ok and when needed the v-8 would kick in.

The vehicle was a step in the right direction to deal with the hydrocarbons issues. Putting that aside, the price of the hybrid was in the upper $50k range and even with gas prices were they were at last year the payback of the Cost delta between the hybrid and an E85 version was a long pay back period with hybrid vs ethanol or gas. The 08 LT I bought was almost $20k less than the Hybrid. I agree with the need to do what we can to save the environment but the cost has to be affordable. Even in the economy models of vehicles the the time it takes to make up the price difference between hybrid and conventional/E85 is still too wide a gap IMO. E85 is a great idea. problem with it is between where I live and where we vacation I could only find 2 stations on the route that sell E85. I am sure they are more but not as a quick fuel stop on a long trip.

I'm all for reducing emissions, but the problem with hybrid tow vehicles, is that they will never be off the gas while towing.

[Razzman]

I really dont want to turn this into another arguement, we have enough of those going around lately.

Obviously I still fail to see this BIG PICTURE. So please enlighten me.

I feel I covered every aspect in depth in my last post.

As far as the future I don't think things can get too much worse then they are now. The saddest part is that we fell into the same trap that we did back in the 1920s. Shouldn't that teach us something. Obviously the young generation of that era learned something becuase they were able to recover and turn the country around. Now the next generation seemed to fall back in the same trap. Now its my generations job to recover.

Let me ask you something. When you were my age, were you thinking about your future? Were you thinking about what you were going to do with your life? Were you thinking about what state this country is going to be in when you grow up and become a part of it? Were you thinking about how you can impact the world? Because let me tell you what, I am. And It scares the hell out of me. Because I dont know what its going to be like, but I can prepare the best I can. So that when the time comes I am ready. So is that what you did at age 17 or were you more worried about getting laid next weekend or where you wake up tomorrow?

As for oil goes, this country should have starting moving away from its dependence on it in the 70s. Its been stated in this thread before that the technology used in cars, and now this boat, have been around for decades in Diesel trains.

Zad, i don't want to turn it into an arguement either. I've had 52 years on this earth, some good, some bad watching everything turn to ****. You and your 17 years qualified to go head to head with me?

At 17 I didn't have TIME to get laid, i worked full time for the family biz and went to school full time. At 21 i was helping running & managing the same family biz, going to school and had started a family. At 29 I joined the ARMY because the family biz collapsed due to the '74 recession and i had a family to feed. Would you do that? So in essence, yes i was thinking about my future because i didn't have a choice, i was being responsible! I was raised with morals of what was right and wrong, I sure as **** didn't spout off spewing crap out my mouth thinking i had all the worlds answers or repeating what i read off of the internet.

The gist here, does your generation have that kind of enthusiasm? Dedication or determination? Hell no they don't and you know it. Look around you, your comment of your generation getting the country out of this mess is a joke acknowledged by many. Many of the top Universities have stated the dismal outlook going forward. They were talking about your generation. Overweight, lazy, unenthused, stoned and unfortunately under educated without a clue where they are going for the most part. I'm not lumping you in that category as we've never met, but the statistics show a good portion of your generation is just that.

The BIG picture if you haven't figured it out is that MAN has ruined this planet and it WILL only get worse and while yes it MAY heal itself long, long after we are gone there is no way to correct the wrongs due to unwise decisions made long ago and the IGNORANCE of people to accept that and try to help ANYWAY we can. Now ever increasing over population, shortages of food, shrinking agricultural lands, dissapearing fossil fuels will eventually lead to mans downfall. Talking about what the country should have done is just an excuse for ignoring the future and not having an answer.

Third world countries either too ignorant or greedy, having just attained either the status or technologies we had 30 years ago are speeding up the process. Mexico is about to implode literally from the inside out and pouring more drugs into this country than we can begin to stop or you'll hear on the news. How will your generation fix all of this siiting on their fat asses eating twinkies playing video games while texting their BFF and using those same drugs?

Your only kidding yourself if you think any of this can be reversed before this planet, sick of the parasite called man, closes the final chapter. And while some scientists will state it's a cycle the earth is going through, man has only made it much worse. So let's keep thinking that way, "it's only saving 5% emmissions" or "I don't contribute that much", that way you can help speed things up for your generation. Did you know the technology existed in the 1940's to more than double the current mpg of a vehicle? It never saw the light, It wasn't financially sound for the oil companies and was squashed.

You stated your scared, son you damn well better be because it's only going to get a hell of alot worse and as it does society will just keep on collapsing. But your twinky eating, video gaming buddies won't care, they'll be too stoned to notice anyway.

And BTW i wasn't stupid enough i guess to contribute the current economic mess. I bought my home 18 years ago on a 30 year fixed and only re'fied to gain a lower rate. I wasn't one of those dumbasses stupid enough or ignorant enough to buy into an arm mortgage. I didn't have to have everything and help lead this country to excess.

Remember all of this mess, everything that's happened to this 4.55 billion year old planet & this once hopefull society, has been done so in slightly over 100 years. So tell me Zad, what exactly are you going to be ready for?

Still think the future can't get any worse?

I'm not attacking you Zad, i just think you and your gen better get wise and get their **** together fast if your going to be of any help at all. I know a lot of us "old" guys think the same, as did our fathers too. The problem is each generation degenerates more and more. If you want to banter more on this then we'll take it offline...

[MoneyPity]

I'm all for reducing emissions, but the problem with hybrid tow vehicles, is that they will never be off the gas while towing.

The mpg of the vehicle in mixed driving and highway was only 2mpg better if I remember the specs correctly. Putting that into $$$$.cccc it would take the life of the vehicle or longer to pay off the difference in purchase price.

In small econo boxes hybrids may be worth it only of the prices of the hybrids become competitive. When you look at the improved mpg vs the added cost the payback for hybrids will not be realized by the original buyer who trades off every 5-6 years.

There are alternative fuels and technology that can make a difference but it is blocked by big business, oil companies etc. We have much of the technology to produce cleaner running vehicles without fossil fuel but like other ideas that woud have helped the auto industry improve performance without fossil fuel the technology gets bought out and buried.

[Razzman]

hahaha, who then got us into the situation that we are currently in?

Young guns huh junior? Can't come up with anything better than that? That was a rally cry for many corporations ten years ago, think up your own ****.

So you think the plight of millions of unemployed, un-housed americans is funny do you? I see your riding Zad's coattails throughout all of this vigorous discussion. Got anything intelligent to add or you just going to do a Spicoli and nod your head?

Geez, this is our future?

[Razzman]

The mpg of the vehicle in mixed driving and highway was only 2mpg better if I remember the specs correctly. Putting that into $$$$.cccc it would take the life of the vehicle or longer to pay off the difference in purchase price.

In small econo boxes hybrids may be worth it only of the prices of the hybrids become competitive. When you look at the improved mpg vs the added cost the payback for hybrids will not be realized by the original buyer who trades off every 5-6 years.

Never said it was easy. If Americans, corporations and the government wanted it to happen it could.

[chpthril]

The mpg of the vehicle in mixed driving and highway was only 2mpg better if I remember the specs correctly. Putting that into $$$$.cccc it would take the life of the vehicle or longer to pay off the difference in purchase price.

In small econo boxes hybrids may be worth it only of the prices of the hybrids become competitive. When you look at the improved mpg vs the added cost the payback for hybrids will not be realized by the original buyer who trades off every 5-6 years.

exactly, and here's another way to look at it......if the diff in MPG's is that tight that it takes that long to recoup the cost, then the diff in pollution will be just as close. So, in the end the only benefit was to Al Gores pocket

[chpthril]

Young guns huh junior? Can't come up with anything better than that? That was a rally cry for many corporations ten years ago, think up your own ****.

So you think the plight of millions of unemployed, un-housed americans is funny do you? I see your riding Zad's coattails throughout all of this vigorous discussion. Got anything intelligent to add or you just going to do a Spicoli and nod your head?

Geez, this is our future?

I'll bet that's what old people (us now) said about us when we were that age

[chpthril]

Bottom line, our biggest pollution problem is not fossil fuel, but the liberal richard gobblers spewing scare tactics and getting ritch off it.

[MoneyPity]

Never said it was easy. If Americans, corporations and the government wanted it to happen it could.

I agree. If enough consumer pressure was focused many of todays energy issues could be improved upon. I remember a dirty jobs episode where a farmer produced his own energy sources from manure. There are alternatives but we the consumers again are the ones who have the power to influence and expedite change.