ATX Photo Leaked

[Zackdogg]

Zackdog, one major benefit of bags over tanks is replacement. Tanks occasionally fail. When tanks fail that are subfloor you have to split the boat. Just ask some MC x46 owners about. Dont tell anyone be we figured out how to do it without splitting the boat but you have to pull the engine, damn near everything in the bilge, and trim some glass. It sucks. If it was a bag with an access hatch subfloor it would have been a couple hours instead of 16 hours.

BTW the x46 tank fails were manufacturing process errors. They were trimming the excess carpet after it was glued to the tank and it would score the rotocast plastic. After a few flex cycles the score line opens up. It's one of my least favorite warranty jobs I've done in a while.

I can on imagine that is an absolute nightmare. And I’ve thought, about what happens if a tank fails, in the past. I’m guessing I wouldn’t be on my 3rd set of tanks in a year, either way. You would think a company that manufactures tanks would know better, but I run across people that totally suck at their job on a daily basis. The answer at Zack Boats would be exactly that. Hard tanks that are accessible. I personally don’t see waterbed mattresses as the ultimate answer, but I also don’t have any R&D budget, so maybe there is something I’m not seeing. And that’s exactly why I ask these things, I truly want to know. I walk around, all day, every day, re-designing things. I’m right about some stuff, and I’m wrong about some, not really tallying which percentage is higher than the other, and maybe that’s for my ego. Just the way this ole brain functions. And me getting answers on some of this stuff helps with the re-design of whatever product I’m going to overthink next.


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[freeheel4life]

Zackdog, one major benefit of bags over tanks is replacement. Tanks occasionally fail. When tanks fail that are subfloor you have to split the boat. Just ask some MC x46 owners about. Dont tell anyone be we figured out how to do it without splitting the boat but you have to pull the engine, damn near everything in the bilge, and trim some glass. It sucks. If it was a bag with an access hatch subfloor it would have been a couple hours instead of 16 hours.

BTW the x46 tank fails were manufacturing process errors. They were trimming the excess carpet after it was glued to the tank and it would score the rotocast plastic. After a few flex cycles the score line opens up. It's one of my least favorite warranty jobs I've done in a while.

[Zackdogg]

Don't discount it just yet. If the under seat storage is knee deep, that is significant. That's where we store everything. One U shaped bow bag is fine with me. As for the 400... have you compared the HP/torque charts on the 400 and 440? They are almost identical until like 4500 RPM's when the 440 pulls away on HP. The only time my boat see's 4500 is empty cruising. No problem there. Put the 2:1 transmission behind the 400 and it just might work. Don't forget this boat is 1000 pounds lighter than the RZX. That will help more than anything. If the surf pictures I've seen so far are true to life stock ballast, this is good news. I could add 1000 in lead and it would probably be killer, all at the same weight I'm running now. The 440 is a $2000 upgrade if you feel you'll need it.

I agree, I was picturing a subfloor with ballast in the storage, not no subfloor, and ballast filling the bottom of the storage, that makes far more sense to me, than what I was picturing.

I haven’t looked at the Hp/Torque curves between those 2, and I’ll freely admit I’m wrong if someone shows me different with a 400 or 440 on that 2:1. As it stands today, I don’t know that I would consider a boat that moves this kind of weight, without a supercharger, but that’s just because of my experience, I haven’t been in a 2:1 boat. I run with a couple of G23s that are both supercharged, and they straight murder me. If the 2:1 really solves that, I’ll happily eat my words to save $15k, but it would have to be a legit demonstration of the capabilities of the smaller motors to change my mind..

I’ll happily go on an ATX demo, it sounds like they thought about the majority of my concerns. I’ve been on Axis’ I like ok, but not nearly as much as my boat, overall, and I’ve never seen one loaded up with what we carry on ours.

The only reason I said that about the 400 is I thought the 360(or whatever) and 400 were the only 2 engines available.. If I could get a budget boat, with a 575, and a killer wave, that’s probably speaking my language, even if I’m the minority. I’ve also never owned anything with a ford motor in my life, so I’ve probably wanted this motor to fail me since day one!! I almost didn’t buy a Tige because that’s how they are equipped. The Nautiques that slay me are all GMC, obviously!!



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[Zackdogg]

Well for one.. you have a bad taste in your mouth for lack of power. Cant say I blame you but you really should go drive something with the 2-1 before you axe it out of the equation. I have ran a 400 rzx2 at pine view full ballast and about 1000lbs in lead. I believe pineview is 6k feet. Again. No problems.

As for sub floor ballast? Yes that just means MFG are running a stepped floor in the rear to account for the bags. Want a floor in it? Expand your budget 25-30K and buy a tige. For me? Give me the crazy depth to the floor and let me make use of it how I want. Change to a crazy stupid rear bag? You can do that. Build a shelf on top of the bag? You can do that too. For me the stock weight was excellent, like more then excellent. Plenty of room to just toss jackets etc into the rear lockers and leave it.

You say the boat isn't for you, I would say make the quick trip down big dog and let me get you in one

I absolutely know that maybe I’m not being fair, and I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong when I am. I’m also pretty decent at keeping an open mind about things... I’m just throwing stuff out there, for us to debate, ultimately. I really wanted to know what the advantage is for giving up space, but it sounds like you aren’t giving up space, is the answer. I was picturing it wrong in my head, I thought it was empty under the ballast, and the ballast was eating space.. the explanation you guys give me answers my question.. if I have as much, or more storage with ballast full, that makes plenty of sense to me..

I don’t understand the manufacturers that use bags over hard tanks, either way.. maybe there’s an answer, but I’ve had my bags replaced 3 times in the last year, no to mention who knows how much extra corrosion that I’ll be dealing with due to the leaky bags filling my bilge with water... maybe water sloshing in partially full tanks?? The cost difference can’t be much, and there must be something I’m not seeing, as obviously I’m not the first guy to think of this.

I want to be proved wrong, on that 400. I don’t think I’d ever buy one, without someone completely blowing me out of the water, with power, at like 7000’. Power will absolutely be the first thing I look at, on my next boat, only because it’s been the source of all of my frustration. I could deal with all analog everything, wood seats, go back to a fly-high, and all the rest before I’d ever even think about a boat that’s under, or even slightly struggles with power.. which I fully realize part of the problem is me loading everything to the max, and I’m probably outside of the norm, there.

I’ll be by, when I’m down there, which should be the next few months, as a good buddy is having a baby, and I haven’t been down in a few months. Whether you sell me a boat, or some GSA plates, is kinda on you at this point!!


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[chpthril]

Sacs or hard tanks below floor is really splitting heirs and not the point of the questions.

[Germaine Marine]

At least that’s a decision each owner could make. Why wouldn’t you just put hard tanks in a deep hull boat, and let people opt for PnP, if they want. Or are we just going back to 2000 and filling bags all over our floor and seats? Why would you want to give up storage, for ballast when I have to assume there’s dead space under the floor anyways?? There has to be something I’m not realizing.


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But not even Tige is using hard tanks... Do you mean a floor? Tiges subfloor ballast is bags.

[Lucky275]

The 360, 400, 440, & 460 are on the ATXboats website.

[Germaine Marine]

Really not being a smartass here. Is there some advantage to the ballast being in storage, if you have to take all your crap out to fill ballast? The whole reason I spend 15 minutes an outing messing with lead is to retain my storage. How does that count as storage area, if you can’t really utilize it, at least I’d never be able to. I’ve bar hopped tahoe a few times without using my ballast, but have never not used it otherwise..

I think between that and the 400 being the big motor, this boat isn’t really geared towards me, I guess.


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Well for one.. you have a bad taste in your mouth for lack of power. Cant say I blame you but you really should go drive something with the 2-1 before you axe it out of the equation. I have ran a 400 rzx2 at pine view full ballast and about 1000lbs in lead. I believe pineview is 6k feet. Again. No problems.

As for sub floor ballast? Yes that just means MFG are running a stepped floor in the rear to account for the bags. Want a floor in it? Expand your budget 25-30K and buy a tige. For me? Give me the crazy depth to the floor and let me make use of it how I want. Change to a crazy stupid rear bag? You can do that. Build a shelf on top of the bag? You can do that too. For me the stock weight was excellent, like more then excellent. Plenty of room to just toss jackets etc into the rear lockers and leave it.

You say the boat isn't for you, I would say make the quick trip down big dog and let me get you in one

[Germaine Marine]

In the ATX lineup or Tige/ATX lineup...Cause if it's just the ATX lineup it doesnt count just pounding yourself

Tige and Atx. Stock for stock. I don't think its close either. Just an opinion.

[UNSTUCK]

Is subfloor better? What are cons? I know Supra runs a ton of subfloor. Seems better for storage, why is it not just the way?


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Sub floor just means that there is a floor. That means added cost. If the lockers are super deep, like I imagine they are, then the bags will be located in the same "subfloor" area, but without a floor over the top of them. I imagine there would be plenty of room to build a shelf over the top of them if one is so inclined due to lack of space.

[UNSTUCK]

Really not being a smartass here. Is there some advantage to the ballast being in storage, if you have to take all your crap out to fill ballast? The whole reason I spend 15 minutes an outing messing with lead is to retain my storage. How does that count as storage area, if you can’t really utilize it, at least I’d never be able to. I’ve bar hopped tahoe a few times without using my ballast, but have never not used it otherwise..

I think between that and the 400 being the big motor, this boat isn’t really geared towards me, I guess.

Don't discount it just yet. If the under seat storage is knee deep, that is significant. That's where we store everything. One U shaped bow bag is fine with me. As for the 400... have you compared the HP/torque charts on the 400 and 440? They are almost identical until like 4500 RPM's when the 440 pulls away on HP. The only time my boat see's 4500 is empty cruising. No problem there. Put the 2:1 transmission behind the 400 and it just might work. Don't forget this boat is 1000 pounds lighter than the RZX. That will help more than anything. If the surf pictures I've seen so far are true to life stock ballast, this is good news. I could add 1000 in lead and it would probably be killer, all at the same weight I'm running now. The 440 is a $2000 upgrade if you feel you'll need it.

[Zackdogg]

Totally agree, but even with the true sub-floor ballast boats, we are putting additional in the lockers anyway.

At least that’s a decision each owner could make. Why wouldn’t you just put hard tanks in a deep hull boat, and let people opt for PnP, if they want. Or are we just going back to 2000 and filling bags all over our floor and seats? Why would you want to give up storage, for ballast when I have to assume there’s dead space under the floor anyways?? There has to be something I’m not realizing.


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[Zackdogg]

They show a 460 in the engine options page. No supercharged but all the rest of the raptor line.


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That’s good to know, 460 with a 2:1 should be legit. I don’t think there is anything that could sell me on a 400, after where I’ve been with being underpowered. Maybe if you were strictly running close to sea level, which maybe that’s the majority of boats, but not me.


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[chpthril]

Is there some advantage to the ballast being in storage, if you have to take all your crap out to fill ballast?

Totally agree, but even with the true sub-floor ballast boats, we are putting additional in the lockers anyway.

[BrentP]

Thanks Mike. So no subfloor ballast? I wonder if the lockers are crazy deep like the Max. It would have to to have more storage than an RZX2. So ballast bags in the rear lockers and then I assume a bag on each side of the bow?

This is getting interesting.

Is subfloor better? What are cons? I know Supra runs a ton of subfloor. Seems better for storage, why is it not just the way?


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