2006 24Ve - Bad Alternator???

[Bobgammon]

Can a bad alternator / low voltage cause a 2006 24Ve to enter limp mode? Boat runs fine for about 1.5 hours and then starts entering limp mode. Voltage gauge flutters at idle and if it drops to about 11V the boat goes into limp mode. If I can throttle up before boat enters limp mode, boat runs fine and volt gauge on dash shows 14V.

I'm thinking I have an alternator problem but would appreciate your thoughts.

[14burrito]

Are you going based off gauge only or are you taking actual measurements at the battery?
Whats the static battery voltage?
Voltage drop between the alternator and battery?
Belt tension, belt condition OK?

I would imagine a low voltage would promote limp mode as the sensors/actuators/etc may not have the proper voltages provided to work properly.

Are all alternator/battery connections tight and corrosion free?

Could just be a voltage regulator going bad.

[Bobgammon]

I'm just going off of the gauge in the dash and really have limited info at this time (we have severe flooding in this part of the state so my time with the boat has been limited; I just bought the boat a couple of months ago). The batteries both show 12.6V with the boat shut off. Belt is good. I have not yet checked voltage drop between alternator and battery but will be able to this weekend.

I have the boat at the nearest Tige dealer and they say the alternator is putting out 12.6V at idle That seems kind of low to me but they said it is in spec. That combined with the gauge flutter and limp mode occurring when gauge drops to 11V made me question the alternator.

[14burrito]

Under what other conditions was the limp mode occurring?

May just be happenstance.

[Bobgammon]

The boat runs fine for about an hour and a half and then enters limp mode. I can shut off the boat and clear the alarm and then the boat works fine for a while. Over the next half hour or so the limp mode gets more frequent and sometimes takes multiple attempts to actually get going. I have to be pretty quick on the throttle to get the rpm and voltage readout on the dash up to get the boat moving.

The fact that the boat runs for a while before entering limp mode makes me think it is something other than the TPS/PPS/TAC, etc. that I read so much about here. The boat does show a code 81 fault but I understand that can occur with low voltage??????

[talltigeguy]

A bad battery could do this too. I would test the batteries with something other than just checking the resting voltage.

I agree that a running alternator should put out more than 12.6 volts, unless the battery is bad and sucking the voltage down. I would expect it to be over 14 if the battery is fully charged and in good shape.

[skiguy]

A bad battery could do this too. I would test the batteries with something other than just checking the resting voltage.

I agree that a running alternator should put out more than 12.6 volts, unless the battery is bad and sucking the voltage down. I would expect it to be over 14 if the battery is fully charged and in good shape.

I’ve been fighting a similar issue. Definitely check the batteries. Don’t just trust the voltage. Take them to a shop and have them load tested.

I learned something interesting today. I pulled my alternator out of my boat as I’m only getting about 12.2v at idle (600 rpm). Took it to an alternator shop and they spun it up on their test equipment and confirmed it was functioning normally. The guy there said it’s not unusual to see low output at idle. Bumping rpms up a couple hundred and output was over 13.7v, so alternator checks out. Then took one of my expensive Optima blue top batteries to Autozone and they load tested and it came back bad. I had a little warning as I would fully charge this battery and within 3 hours resting voltage was dropping to 12.25v. It’s a 19th month old battery - just snuck it in under the 2 year warranty and got a full refund. I unfortunately have another slightly older Optima blue top that’s doing the exact same thing and is out of warranty so I’m stuck with it. I’m not happy. One would think a battery costing close to $300, treated well, would last longer. Never buying Optima again. Bought a Duracell Marine AGM with almost the same specs from Sam’s Club for $119. I taped the receipt to the case in the event this one fails while under warranty.

OP, you definitely sound like a low voltage issue to your ECM. I would start with the testing the batteries as an easy first step. Testing voltage drop from your alternator to your battery would be step 2 just to make sure your cables and connectors are good. It’s easy and doesn’t take long. Lots of good YouTube videos to reference. Step 3 - alternator test. It sounds like it’s ok tho as it has good output when you raise the rpms. But to eliminate it as a problem you may need to pull it and have it checked. The last thing I can think of is some component is causing excessive draw on your electrical system. At idle the alternator output isn’t keeping up and the sustained low voltage messes with your ECM. I have no good advice for determining the source of load/draw on a circuit. I’m sure more seasoned professionals on the forum could assist there.

Good luck finding your problem.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[gumby]

Also don't forget to check the connection on the alternator it self. This is a pic of my buddy's 2004. The wire was so burnt/corrosion you could just pull it out of the connector. Just something to check.
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[boonecragun]

Bob, I have noticed my dash voltage gauge reflects about 1volt lower than what is coming off alt/batt. I have a voltage drop from the + helm bus to the back of voltage gauge. So trace the voltage down the line from alt/batt to voltage gauge with digital meter and see if you truly have low voltage as indicated on your dash gauge.

[Bobgammon]

Update - I had the batteries tested at the local auto parts store and the cranking battery is bad. I'll install the new battery this week but won't get a chance to test the boat until this weekend. I am hopeful this corrects my problem but it does raise a couple of questions I could use some help with.

I don't believe this 2006 24Ve came with a 2-battery set up originally. According to the previous owner the current battery set up was installed before the 2017 summer. Current set up has an Off/1/2/1-2 switch. Position 1 is wired to the cranking battery, Position 2 is wired to the Deep Cycle battery. The common terminal has the main cable going to the starter and also a smaller cable for accessories wired to an On/Off switch which then goes to the helm. The cranking battery is the one that tested bad.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that once the voltage gauge on the dash starts to flutter and the boat goes into limp mode, it doesn't matter which battery I select. The boat continues entering limp mode after each restart. Shouldn't switching to the good battery correct the limp mode?


I can get the boat to behave correctly for a while longer by shutting down, turning the battery selector switch and the On/Off switches to the Off position, and waiting about 30 seconds. The boat will then run fine for about another half hour. It's like something resets.


Any thoughts?

[chpthril]

Oh man, thats one FUBAR'd setup.

I would test the alternator output right at the alternator's main post. Next, id gut the entire battery switch setup and reinstall correctly. That ON/OFF needs to go. If the diode block is still there, it needs to go. Thats just the beginning.

[BrentP]

I have a 2007 22VE - There was an option for a Dual battery setup from the factory. Look in the engine compartment for a 3 terminal grey box with heat fins on it - Both batteries would go to it, and then to the alternator, it'll be mounded basically to the back seat. If that box is NOT there, then someone just added a classic 1/2/Both to the boat. If that's the case, then the way it's setup a 1/2/both system without an isolator would just be to give you a "backup" battery.

Knowing that combining them may not fix the limp issue as one bad battery can cause the whole system to go wonky. I've seen that before. If you switch to 2, does the boat still start? Or only on 1 or Both?

I swapped my EIDB system out for a Blue Sea electronic isolator.. That's a whole other story BUT the net result is the motor and built-in electrical bus are on 1 battery, and the stereo/lights are on a second, and they are electronically isolated. This means my battery switch is On/Off/Emergency (Hard combine all the batteries in an emergency) so everything is on and charging at the same time.

Get a pen and paper out and map the system - it'll help a lot in diagnosing 12V issues. If there is anything even kind of wrong with that, it can do all sorts of weird crap.

[Bobgammon]

As you guys can probably tell, I am new to this so go easy. I'm trying to get my feet under me and understand this.

The boat starts fine on 1, 2, or both. The boat also goes into limp mode on 1, 2, or both after about 1.5 hours of run time. The boat also starts if the On/Off is in the Off position but the accessories don't work (which makes sense - maybe not the ideal way to wire but I can make sense of how it works).

I will look for the 3 terminal gray box with heat fins (I don't know if that is there or not). Is this what you are calling the diode block or is that something different? I'll check the alternator voltage as well.

I've read a lot in the forum about the EIDB system but I don't know what that means and I don't know if that is what my boat has. How can I learn more about this?

I'll install the new battery this week. Also, I just ordered a new potentiometer to have on hand in case the new battery doesn't fix the problem. Finally, if neither of these fix it could the different voltage to the TAC and ECM problem that I have read about be causing this problem (given the battery setup I described)?

Thanks, I appreciate your help.

[chpthril]

If the ECM harness has not been modified, then yes, a voltage difference can cause a code 81 and limp mode.

I would move away from the EIDB, but more so, address the cobbled together system thats there.

The box with fins and 3 studs described above, is the diode isolator.

[BrentP]

So yah, if the boat starts without the switch being on, then the switch is pointless (Althought, it's good that the stereo stuff doesnt work at least). The Diode-Isolator (Lets just call it an Isolator) looks like the below picture with the 3 red cables going into it (This picture is from the back of the boat looking forward). If you have that, you have what Tige called an "EIDB" system. It works fine, but it causes a voltage drop under normal use. Shouldnt impact you but it annoyed the **** out of me so I replaced it (With Mike/CHPTHRILs help).

Basically, it sounds like your boat is only running on the Number 1 battery, so if it's bad (which it is), the voltage probably drops and cant be recharged, causing the boat electronics to not work correctly. That's definetly the first thing to try. Also, I'd probably run a hybrid deep cycle battery vs a starting battery. It'll hold charge longer and since you dont start your boat when it's freezing outside, shouldnt impact you from a cranking amp standpoint.

Also, for future reference, your battery switch is not working correctly, so dont assume the power is off when the switch is off.

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