Stereo component opinions

[dogbert]

Originally posted by Moki
If the bass is causing your speakers to distort at loud volumes. You may want to consider adding a high pass filter to your tower speakers and let the sub provide the bass. Also, add a low pass filter to your bass, so the sub is not trying to reproduce the high frequencies. This will take a strain off both your tower speakers and sub.

Make sense?

Yes it does, but that's not the issue. It's not really distortion that's the problem. I have high-low pass filters already. It's more a matter of not taxing the speakers as much when we have it cranked up. Don't get me wrong, I can crank them and turn up the bass if I want to and it all sounds great, but I know it's hard on the speakers. When I'm out boarding with my kids, I'll be driving around for several hours. With an additional pair, I can get equal or more volume without taxing each speaker as much. Hopefully it will last longer and it gives the rider a better listening experience.

[Moki]

I understand. I think you are heading down the right direction with your original plan. The additional speakers should do a better job of projecting your music. I would imagine that your speakers will handle being ran in parallel with your current amp, but if you want to be safe you may want to check with either Monster or MB Quart to be sure.

E-mail: info@mbquart.de

[Graham Morris]

decibels

Remember decibels is log scale
You need to double your output to move up one log scale notice a differance. Ie the ear can hear the differance between 400w and 800w not 400 and 600 at max out put. The normal reason for a lot more grunt is you can use the grunt with out 5% distortion. Remember when you parallel speakers you double the current from the amp and not all can handle it. Feel a real hi fi amp and feel the weight of an amp to handle the current developed, to not only handle the initial push which gives you the watts but the return current which gives you the crisp clear note ( holds the cone firm on its return journey). My 700 watt per channel boat amp iss 10kg but my 500 watt per channel home stereo amp weighs 45kg.

[spharis]

Originally posted by Moki I saw this last night, but was scared away due to the non functioning condition. So, are you saying that Rockford Fosgate will refurbish it for free or for a low price? Did you see the Marine Radio with 6 disc changer for $155? What do you think of that unit?

I am interested in seeing some pics where you cut your holes for your tweeter when you do it.

If it is a common problem sometimes they repair for free. They will usually charge though, but they will quote you a price over the phone. Call them to get an estimate before you bid. I sent a T212 driver in with a broken spider, and they fixed free and paid the return shipping 65lbs.

Originally posted by dogbert Ok, so I considered myself an audiophile, but you guys clearly take the definition to a whole new level.

So, currently my tower speakers are from Monster (single barrel w/ Tantrum drivers...ok, so they're really an MB Quart private label). They're rated at 60W RMS (180W Peak) at 4Ohms. The amp driving them is a Kenwood KAC-7202 2 channel amp rated at 150W RMS per channel @ 4Ohm and 230W per channel @ 2 Ohm.

So if I add a second set of speakers on the tower, will that essentially double the decibels that what I currently have (assuming I wire them in parallel)?

If you short positive to positive and negative to negative, you are providing 2 paths for the signal to travel across. Both paths are 4 ohm, the source only sees 2 paths, and splits the impedence, or makig the amp more efficient. An amp can be made as efficient as you want however the internals are only stable at certain impedance.....indicated by the manufacturer.

Since that amp is stable at 2 ohm, you would be fine doing this as far as the amp, however the total power is splt between the available drivers. So each channel has 230W....each driver gets half. This would be over the recommended RMS for your drivers. Turning down the gain does not solve this either. An amp always put out the rated power.....it the amount of signal that makes the music louder.

You are currently overdriving those. Is that rating on the amp RMS or peak? If it is RMS then you are way overpowering them. You want to try to match the RMS as close as possible. Peak only happens when you get hits like snare drums or poppy bass. Most drivers can handle brief exposure to peaks, but constantly peaking them will wear them out.....

Originally posted by Moki If the bass is causing your speakers to distort at loud volumes. You may want to consider adding a high pass filter to your tower speakers and let the sub provide the bass. Also, add a low pass filter to your bass, so the sub is not trying to reproduce the high frequencies. This will take a strain off both your tower speakers and sub.

I can post a tutorial on how to properly set gains if anyone is interested. This will prevent any problems of clipping, which is what you are describing. This is unrelated to overdriving a driver.

[Jeff T]

[i]
I can post a tutorial on how to properly set gains if anyone is interested. This will prevent any problems of clipping, which is what you are describing. This is unrelated to overdriving a driver. [/B]

I would be interested.

[spharis]

Gain setting tutorial:
First a brief explanation of gain adjustment. One problem many people make with a gain is that it is a "volume" knob. It of course is not. It is a way to match the head unit output RCA output power to an acceptable level for the amplifier, so that signal is at an opimum level when passing through the driver. Many radios have 3+, 5+, 1.5+ etc voltage. The gain sets this for the amp.

Tools you need......
1. A multimeter that can display AC voltage

2. A tone cd with tones in the ranges you play....
I usually use 40Hz for sub channels and 800Hz - 1400Hz or so for my mids and highs. If you have your highs on a channel, you can use 18000Hz+ for them. I can make tones for anyone who needs them. Just ask

Figure out what voltage you need to have on each channel using the manf. specs:
Ohms law regarding voltage
volts = sq.root of watts x ohms

So if your amp is rated to 200 watts @ 2 ohms, then you want to have 20 volts leaving the speaker terminals.
200x2=400.....sq root of 400 = 20 volts......

To setup......
1a. Turn the amp gain all the way down.

1. Put the tone cd in and set it to loop on the track, unless you have a length track.

2. Unplug at least one side of your speaker output.

3. Turn the headunit up to about 3/4 volume, this is a safe zone for most head units.....higher will result in the HU clipping the signal before it even gets to the amp.

4. Take a reading on the amp terminals in volts.....

5. Adjust the gain until it falls into the previously configured formula.

Repeat for the other inputs.

Once it is all done, hook all the speakers back up , and then adjust the levels for the speakers playing to loudly by turning them down....you do not want to turn up any gains as they are already at max.

[spharis]

A poor mans way of setting the gains is to turn the head unit 3/4.......then start turning up the gain from 0......when the music starts to distort, turn the gain down a little until it stops. The 3/4 is the mac volume you want to go to here as well.

[Moki]

Spharis,
I have decided to go with all Eclipse amps on my boat due them being based on the icepower technology that gives great audio quality at less energy--meaning less heat in the amp and longer battery life on the boat. I believe the Alpine amps are using this as well. Bought my wired remote, still bidding on a rockford fosgate head unit.

http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/sw1773.asp

Dogbert,
The answer to getting loud music out to the rider while only running at 1/2 volume is to put your MB quarts in your boat and get a tower speaker that is based on HCLD. Currently, only NVS, Wetsounds, and Rubicon use this setup. There is an exhaustive and I do mean exhaustive discusson on wakeworld about it.

[dogbert]

BTW, I was talking to the guys at Monster Tower and they hooked me up with an extra set of speakers with the Tantrum drivers. I'm cranking it up way less and there's a ton more sound. My kids are actually telling me it's too loud (not sure that's possible, but there's no whining about volume levels any more)!

Thanks for all the advice guys!

BTW, I added a Monster Surfboard rack as well. It holds some of the bigger boards really well and seems to work for our kneeboard as well.

[Moki]

Sounds like your Tige is pretty much "pimped out"! Just need a Monster calendar girl to complete her. Of course, this means that you are going to have to bring your boat the Lake Mead Reunion to join in the stereo sound off with Dom and I.

[dogbert]

No luck getting one of the Monster girls in my boat, but my boys were pretty excited about the calendars they sent with my speakers

[Ruune]

The only Polk speakers that are rated for Marine are the DB series.

I beg to differ- the MOMO series are marine rated. The will require more power than the DB series, and they'll cost a bit more.

Stay away from visonik... like spharis said, you get what you pay for.
I'd also stay away from Sony's Xplod series. I wish they never had cut out there "Mobile ES" series. IMHO Xplod is all "show" and no "go."

As far as subs and components, I only use Alpine, JL audio, or Polk. The polk Momo Subs are good for SQL, but you want a lot of SPL in a boat. A single 12w3 from JL will do nicely. Kicker Solobaric also push a lot of air and will give you a good thump.

Amps- Again Alpine or JL. I use some older fosgate amps, but I've found that Alpine and JL are the most efficient. There are others, and as stated before, you get what you pay for.

Just ask Bam-Bam!

[Razzman]

How in the he!! did this one come back alive? This thread is dead man!

[Moki]

How in the he!! did this one come back alive? This thread is dead man!

Oh contraire, this thread has been updated!

[talltigeguy]

and as stated before, you get what you pay for.

Just ask Bam-Bam!

She must have paid her plastic surgeon a LOT!