Raptor 400 flash upgrade

[Mike88]

Hi guys,
Like we discuss yesterday we already know that the only difference between 360, 400 and 440 indmar raptor motors is tuning.
But does anyone ever flash his own raptor 400?
Would like to hear some comments about it and where you can have the software installed.
Or just a safe and well known place you can order it.
Thanks.

[UNSTUCK]

When I was researching it I was told the 400 to 440 tune was not available. At some point Indmar will have to make it available. Ecu's fail.

" hi Indmar, I was jump starting my boat out on the water and I guess I hooked something up wrong. Now it cranks but won't start. Can you send me a new computer? May as well make it a 440 tune while you're at it."

[Stingreye]

Not sure if they can do raptor engines but my guess is these guys are worth checking into:
http://www.azspeed-marine.com/peecuca.html



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[Mike88]

Thanks guys I will try to contact both!

[boardman74]

What I was told by the Indmar Rep when I worked for a dealership is there is no update available via Flash or updating the ECM. The only option is to replace the ECM and that has to be done thru Indmar. It is done only on a one for one swap. So if you send in a bad 400 ECM you are getting back a 400 ECM. Trust me we thought we were slick at the dealership and were going to get free 440 upgrades. They were totally ready for this.

They aren't dumb. They knew it wouldn't take long to figure out the only difference is the ECM tune. The only way you are getting the 440 ECM/ Tune is paying for it. I'm sure you can find someone to mess with it, but if they don't have the marine specific software you run the risk of screwing something up.

The 400/ 440 are the same minus the tune, but I believe the 360 is not. I think it has different injectors or intake or some other mechanical externals.

[Mike88]

Thanks boardman
I was not trying to get free upgrades haha just curious if anyone ever did it.
Ànyway tuning my 400 will void my warranty like my dealer told me.
And indmar just respond me few hours ago and said almost the same thing as you. It's possible to change the ECM, I just need to order a raptor 400 ECM and get it installed by an authorized dealer but they void my engine warranty.

But indmar confirmed me that the 360r is the same too. Just a different software.
It's crazy how a motor can be different just with electronic haha. It's kind of a huge difference between the 360 of 440 when you think about it.

[chpthril]

440 upgrade on USB thumbdrive $10K! Includes free engine assembly

Put together a group-buy and I bet we could get it down to $8,000.00

[Germaine Marine]

I would be panicked about a warranty claim if I launched a motor going through anyone that wasn't willing to give me Indmar approval. Logic says the price for the motor upgrade when purchasing isn't to pay for the time their engineers have to tune the motor differently rather to account for warranty claims in regards to motors that will fail for the simple fact of being tweaked for more performance.......

[UNSTUCK]

No, it's 100% a cash grab. Logic says that if they knowingly overpower a motor they will have claims costing them way more than the upcharge for the extra performance. At a minimum a raptor 360 long block can easily handle becoming a 440, and it can handle becoming the new 460 (or maybe it was a 480, cant remember). If it could not handle that they would have either not uped the performance or they would have swapped out the weak link (crank, rods, pistons, etc.) for a stronger one. They didn't even do that on the SC motor. Just slapped on the blower and another tune. I do question that decision. So I guess the upcharge for that one may have some insurance built in, but they also know they will sell way less of them so the risk of loss is minimized.

[freeheel4life]

Good discussion guys. Asked Larry Engelbert about warranty claims on new motors thus far, and he claimed most the engine failures they've seen have been from guys not running a 91 octane in 460 and 575 models (mandatory minimum fuel requirement). Claimed they will literally knock themselves to death. Other complete failure and cause is incorrect oil in the 575. Indmar calls for a full synthetic 5w-30 on the 460 and lower, but the 575 requires a thicker 15-50 full synthetic so the lower can handle the increased compression. We've been doing 25-50 in the 575.
Basic point being it sounds like most the failures they've experienced this far have either been owner or service provider related. We certainly haven't seen many issues besides little sensors (Wide band 02 sensors mostly) with the raptor.
Definitely seems like the upgrade option is quite the racket, but it's all about the bottom line. My question is what are boat manufacturers markup if any. I'm assuming Tige, MB, Malibu, Etc aren't just optioning out tunes at Indmar's price so what is their markup and who's offering 440s the cheapest. Or are they all the same across the board??

[UNSTUCK]

I can't believe they are having failures due to wrong fuel. The ecu should detect the knock and retard timing. Sure you may lose all your power, but your motor stays together.

I noticed that each mgf. had different pricing on engine upgrades. Moomba was the cheapest to get into a 440 as I recall.

[Germaine Marine]

I can't believe they are having failures due to wrong fuel. The ecu should detect the knock and retard timing. Sure you may lose all your power, but your motor stays together.

I noticed that each mgf. had different pricing on engine upgrades. Moomba was the cheapest to get into a 440 as I recall.

So lets revisit... the ecu change along with a minimum fuel requirement can cause some issues when they are flashed for more performance..... Makes sense to me. You only get more performance a few ways..... more fuel and more air.

Its been the same story for decades. I highly doubt the fuel rating on NA pretty mild motors is causing issue unless they are trying to squeeze every last bit of performance out of them via timing, fuel etc.

So again, ill stand by my logic which is that although its a minimal cost they are saving their *** for potential problems. The only rational explanation aside from saying they are money mongering monsters. Just don't think thats the case entirely.

You reflash any baseline motor for performance gains and their is some risk involved depending on who is behind the driver seat...... more risk then say a diesel platform which I will use for example. Detuned a ton from the factory across all brands, guys are reflashing them for big time gains...... doesent mean the motors were safe for that. Obviously Indmar isnt taking it to that extreme but I can imagine they know where the line is at in relation to power vs reliability and they run up to it.

Gas motors cant net nearly the safer gains diesels can via just some ECM calibrations....... Nothing new here