2009 Z1 ballast pumps

[ShoreS]

I am having issues filling the hard tanks and bags (on all three hard tanks and three bags). The dealer said they fill fine at the shop and will take ~8min, but when I try at the lake the hard tanks seem to fill a little bit (can empty a little water out, only takes 20 secs) and the bag never start filling. I can hear (all) the pumps running. Any ideas/help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[lee]

Could be something inline causing back pressure for the pumps. At the "shop" they maybe using a fake-a-lake and forcing water into and through the pumps allowing all to fill.

[chpthril]

Did you recently purchase this boat and with this ballast configuration? Reason I ask. IIRC, the 09 model would not have only had a single soft sac in the bow and hard tanks in the rear. Any rear soft sac would have been added later, UNLESS, your 09 was a very late 09 and was built with the Surf Ballast option that was rolled out for the 2010 models.

So knowing exactly what you have is going to help in determining how its supposed to fill and how long it should take. That boat likely has 750 GPH pumps, so it will take about 4 minutes to fill the rear hard tanks. The front sac has 2 pumps feeding it, so about 3 minutes to fill it. Beyond that, we need to know was sacs and how the plumbing is.

[ShoreS]

Thanks for the replys. I was thinking the same thing with the fake a lake forcing water. As far as the bags, when i purchased the boat (used in November) they installed the three bags as part of the deal. They say the hard tanks will fill first and when the they are full it will start filling the bags. So I guess the bags are inline with the hard tanks? im also assuming the pumps are stock, is there any know issues with the stock pumps?

Thanks again for the help.

[chpthril]

No known pump issues. They are Johnson (i think) aerator pumps and are typically bullet proof. If I was to speculate, I would say that the sacs are done in a piggyback manor. Tank fills and purges through its vent outlet. This flow then goes to the sac. Once the sac is filled, then the overflow finally makes its way to the overflow thru-hull. This adds a ton of head pressure to the pump and really slows its flow rate.

[ShoreS]

Thanks for the info. What would be the best way to fix this issue?

[lee]

First check your hoses for kinks or blockage. You could upgrade to the Jabsco Ballast pumps to fill and empty also.

[empty_boat]

Some of those boats had check valves to keep water from flowing back out the fill pumps. If the check valves are too close to the pumps water will "stand" above the check valve and make an air trap in the pump (like you finger over the end of a straw) then the pumps wont prime because there is an air "lock". This can also happen if the hoses have a belly or sag in them that holds water. May not be your problem but something to check. Also make sure someone didn't close the valves under the pumps. Hoses need to slope up the whole way to the bag or tank if possible. Also make sure the elbows on the pumps don't point down (if there are elbows on the pumps) any of these type of things can cause an air lock and the pumps wont prime and pump. Back in the day I was pretty good at using one hand to pop the cartridge out of the mayfair pumps to get the air out and get them to prime.

[ShoreS]

Thanks for all the tips. I will take a look at everything today. Hopefully I can find the problem.
I also sent a message to wakemakers and they pretty much said the same things (read below)

aerator style pumps are known to be vulnerable to air lock lock and be difficult to prime. Normally it can be fixed by simply check your fill hose route. If the hose is kinked or dips and loops at all it can be acceptable to air lock. There are impeller pumps that self prime and this issue is eliminated but it is not just a straight swap. Hopefully that helps, I would check your ballast system hoses and make sure everything is correct. Just keep in mind aerator pumps do not push or pull water so the hose route is crucial to allow air to escape and allow water into the pump.


If I unable to make this setup reliable and switched to an impeller pumps would I have to re plum/wire the whole thing?


Thanks again for all the help!

[lee]

Your intake hoses would have to be routed to the new pumps then to the tank/bag but you could use the same wires just move to the new pumps.

[chpthril]

hard tanks seem to fill a little bit (can empty a little water out, only takes 20 secs) and the bag never start filling

This doesnt indicate an air lock problem with the pump.

[ShoreS]

After looking over things the 1/2 turn valves are open, no sag in lines and don't see any check valves inline. All pumps were turned on and work. I did find out the one of the pumps are capped off (fwd stbd) leaving the fwd port, aft port, aft stbd. Hoping to head to the lake Friday and try removing the heads while in the water. To see if that will work If that don't work I believe I will install impeller pumps for filling only (run them one direction) and use the aerator pumps to drain for now.

[Stingreye]

After looking over things the 1/2 turn valves are open, no sag in lines and don't see any check valves inline. All pumps were turned on and work. I did find out the one of the pumps are capped off (fwd stbd) leaving the fwd port, aft port, aft stbd. Hoping to head to the lake Friday and try removing the heads while in the water. To see if that will work If that don't work I believe I will install impeller pumps for filling only (run them one direction) and use the aerator pumps to drain for now.

Take a picture of your fill pumps and where they are located. I am betting there is something going on at the pumps. Its really hard to prime an aerator on the trailer with a fake a lake if you have a manifold, so I am a little suspect of that diagnosis. In the water, I have never had problems with my aerators priming but then again Chpthrl did help design my pump and manifold placement

[ShoreS]

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[chpthril]

After looking over things the 1/2 turn valves are open, no sag in lines and don't see any check valves inline. All pumps were turned on and work. I did find out the one of the pumps are capped off (fwd stbd) leaving the fwd port, aft port, aft stbd. Hoping to head to the lake Friday and try removing the heads while in the water. To see if that will work If that don't work I believe I will install impeller pumps for filling only (run them one direction) and use the aerator pumps to drain for now.

Was this a Tige dealer that did the ballast sac install?

If the hard tanks are filling as you indicated, there is not a priming issue with the pumps. So if the tanks are filling and the sacs are not, its a plumbing problem. Changing to $800 dollars worth of impeller pumps to fix a poorly piggy backed sac system, is throwing good money after bad, as you would likely sill be left with the same or similar issue.

If the sac is not filling now, it wont drain later, if you switch to an impeller fill setup and retain the factory drain system. The two overlap. The way the water needs to get into the sac from the tank when filling, and isnt, is the same way it would need to exit out of the sac back into the tank to drain.