ZR2 vs 210 Air Nautique

[chpthril]

That's good to know as I have never owned a CC so I can't personally compare.

I just notice a lot of the little things that make the CC appear more upscale. For example - gas struts to hold up the storage hatch vs. nothing in my Tige, better hardware especially the latches; snap out carpets etc.

What a difference a year model will make: In 06 Tige offered a SS hardware upgrade option. It included SS windshield supports, hatch lift supports, and SS latches on the rear lockers. Also offered a SS rubrail.

The lack of snap out carpets was really disappointing to me as we traded in a boat with that option when we bought the Tige.

I dont see how the lack of snap-out carpet makes a boat seem cheap. I've had both and prefer the permanent as it is less maintenance but, you'll be happy to know that the 2010 v-drive (Ve and RZ, and Z1) models now have.

As an accountant, I am also aware that you do get what you pay for and if Tige were to upgrade their components they would need to charge more. To me Tige was a good balance of performance, content and price.

And they did, but people now say they are way over priced. Seems many want a Ferrari at a Hyundai price. We want Tige to compete in options and performance with CC, MCand Bu, but be priced along side of a Moomba

Up here in the great white north our season is very short and I only get to put 30hrs on the boat each season so it was really hard to justify spending a lot on a boat.

[ImaPigDog]

No disrepect to Forte's (I've heard nothing but good) or any other dealer, before buying either, I would strongly urge to test drive it as much as possible, pouring over every single feature and function to insure it is everything you should expect from a brand new boat.

While there are many on this forum who have had great experiences, it would have been better for us to spend the extra money to purchase a better quality boat as it has cost us more in the long run from downtime and trips to & from the dealer. We have friends and neighbors who own Mailibu, Supra, Mastercraft & Nautique. None of them have had near the problems that we have and some are several years old.

We ordered a 2009 Tigé 22Vé and have had a lot of quality issues with it. I am not convinced that our boat was water tested as advertised. There is clearly a lack of quality control. We have had problems with several "fit & finish" problems (vinyl, finish, etc.); noisy Alpha Z tower; ballast leaking & auto-filling; windshield doesn't close; raw water pump bolts (same PCM engine as the SAN 210) breaking and serpentine belt getting chewed apart; SpeedSet (cruise control) disengaging and over-throttling and our hull lists to the starboard side. I could go on but you get the point.

The irony is that if it weren't for the quality issues, we would absolutely love our boat for many of the reasons that previous posts listed. Instead, we cannot wait to replace it. We have made repeated attempts to contact Tigé to no avail. Due to the lack of response and support from Tigé, we will be looking to replace it with a more trustworthy brand.

Good luck!
Tim

[da.bell]

Many of your problems Ima is the dealer from what is sounds like. The window should have been finished off by the dealer, the dealer also makes sure that it's also water tested and should take you and your family out to do these tests, and so on and so on. Blaming Tige for their attention to details can be done but they are not the blunt of the problem. It's the dealer IMO.

[Timmy!]

But in retrospect of Ima's issues, most of our members haven't had those issues. You could go to the MC/BU/CC forums and find members that have the same complaints about their boats.

[turbonine]

No disrepect to Forte's (I've heard nothing but good) or any other dealer, before buying either, I would strongly urge to test drive it as much as possible, pouring over every single feature and function to insure it is everything you should expect from a brand new boat.

While there are many on this forum who have had great experiences, it would have been better for us to spend the extra money to purchase a better quality boat as it has cost us more in the long run from downtime and trips to & from the dealer. We have friends and neighbors who own Mailibu, Supra, Mastercraft & Nautique. None of them have had near the problems that we have and some are several years old.

We ordered a 2009 Tigé 22Vé and have had a lot of quality issues with it. I am not convinced that our boat was water tested as advertised. There is clearly a lack of quality control. We have had problems with several "fit & finish" problems (vinyl, finish, etc.); noisy Alpha Z tower; ballast leaking & auto-filling; windshield doesn't close; raw water pump bolts (same PCM engine as the SAN 210) breaking and serpentine belt getting chewed apart; SpeedSet (cruise control) disengaging and over-throttling and our hull lists to the starboard side. I could go on but you get the point.

The irony is that if it weren't for the quality issues, we would absolutely love our boat for many of the reasons that previous posts listed. Instead, we cannot wait to replace it. We have made repeated attempts to contact Tigé to no avail. Due to the lack of response and support from Tigé, we will be looking to replace it with a more trustworthy brand.

Good luck!
Tim

Sounds like its time for a 23LSV solution!

[ImaPigDog]

Spacecoast - Sorry - didn't mean to hijack the thread.

Many of your problems Ima is the dealer from what is sounds like. The window should have been finished off by the dealer, the dealer also makes sure that it's also water tested and should take you and your family out to do these tests, and so on and so on. Blaming Tige for their attention to details can be done but they are not the blunt of the problem. It's the dealer IMO.

David,

Your point is valid for some of the items but I respectfully disagree as a whole. The point here is lack of quality from the factory when comparing Tige with different brands. All of our quality problems originated at the factory. That is the source of the problem. I know that your default response is to put the onus on the dealer. But, how does the manufacturer get a free pass when it is the builder of the boat? Yes, some of the problems could have been caught by the dealer and/or manufacturer with more review and/or testing. In fact, there were a couple of fit & finish problems we didn't even notice until we brought the boat home. Some of that is going to happen with boats. I get it. I have been around boats all my life. We have purchased new boats before this one. When ordering this boat, we even planned accordingly by ordering early in the year so that we could take delivery in April and try to get any issues worked out before Memorial Day weekend.

We had a water delivery scheduled with our dealer but a storm rolled in and we opted for a dry delivery instead so we wouldn't have to take another day off work. Some of the problems were compounding other problems and took time to even figure the root cause. For example, the rear starboard ballast tank was auto-filling due to the pump/intake being below the water line. This design flaw has been documented on this forum by several other 2009 owners. This is not something that may get noticed, much less figured out when going out with the dealer for an hour or two, especially while focusing on learning the systems of a new boat. It took us a couple times out to troubleshoot what was going on. At first, I thought I may have accidentally bumped the ballast button to fill since there is not much motion in the 3-way switch and the light is hard to see in daylight. It was only after we had the boat sitting still in the water that I could figure it out by draining the ballast, waiting a few minutes, draining it again, etc. After getting that resolved, we realized that the hull lists to the starboard side. We couldn't uncover this problem until we had the ballast problem resolved. These are not issues that will necessarily be flushed out with the introductory dealer ride.

The first time we took the boat out, the SpeedSet screen locked up and we couldn't get any response from the SpeedSet pad. We couldn't even reset it after shutting the engine off and removing the key (even sitting on the trailer in the parking lot by the ramp). Of course, by the time we get the boat to our dealer, the screen had reset. Our dealer checked and we have the latest updates. We have problems with it nearly every time out. It will randomly disengage and since the throttle needs to be past the locked-in speed, the boat will accelerate without warning. We have accidentally had surfers over 20 mph and boarders at 30 mph! This is dangerous and clearly has not been tested enough before putting it into production.

Our dealer has been very responsive and some of the items have been fixed. However, this has cost me a lot of time off work and money, much less non-boating time, that more than offset any savings realized with buying a Tige. The big problems such as the hull listing and the SpeedSet randomly disengaging (common on 2009 with PCM) are certainly not something that the dealer cannot be blamed for.

Overall, the quantity and severity of problems we have experienced with our brand new boat is simply unacceptable. Furthermore, the manufacturer refusing to even respond to letters, emails and phone calls is inexcusable. Not that I expected anything from it other than a fun boating weekend, but we even hosted a reunion at Norris Lake, TN in August in an effort to help promote the Tige brand right in the heart of Malibu, Skier's Choice & Mastercraft country! Even though we were having these problems, we held our tongue and continued to promote the brand. Honestly, a response (phone call/email/letter) telling me to "buzz off" would have at least earned a little respect.

We have been very, very patient. I would be amazed if any reasonable customer that had as many quality issues as we have had would not agree. Again, if we took away all the major problems, we would love our boat. It is truly a shame.

[dom w. forte]

I can assure you that your case is unique, and that Tige will step up and address your issues , they have been outstanding with any problem we have ever had .
No manufacturer can win 5 years in a row for customer satisfaction without backing their product, and the NMMA CSI award is far more valuable then a JD Powers .
As to PCM they make an exellent power plant and I am sure they took care of your issue, and if it was an issue with Tige it would be the same for CC who use the same power.
As to ballast in my oppinion , nobody has a perfect system ,that is the bulk of our work on every brand that comes to our shop, from pumps not priming to pump failure esspecially on much higher priced boats.
If I can be of any assistance please feel free to call me at 1 888 517 3178.

[da.bell]

Ima, have your dealer call Dom and get this corrected. I am sure Dom will be able to contact Tige and they might respond a little quicker. Just an idea.

[Nobody]

The best part about Dom aside from him being 5 minutes away and being an Ace in his profession is the guy talks staight. He doesn't beat around issues, shade the truth, pull fast punches, make light of your problems. Dom "knows" what he's talking about! Manufacturers have to cut cost today to survive. The first place to cut cost is labor which translates to less quality. It's not going to matter who the boat manufacturer is today, cause they're ALL in the same predicament....so beware! The others on this board will know better than I....but sounds like Nautique is in the worst shape of them all. The only complaint with my 2008 RZ4 (245 hours) is one hatch sticks (rear port side). I'm the only one that can open it. If we turn our bass all the up, it makes the hatch easier to open. No biggie IMO.

I can assure you that your case is unique, and that Tige will step up and address your issues , they have been outstanding with any problem we have ever had .
No manufacturer can win 5 years in a row for customer satisfaction without backing their product, and the NMMA CSI award is far more valuable then a JD Powers .
As to PCM they make an exellent power plant and I am sure they took care of your issue, and if it was an issue with Tige it would be the same for CC who use the same power.
As to ballast in my oppinion , nobody has a perfect system ,that is the bulk of our work on every brand that comes to our shop, from pumps not priming to pump failure esspecially on much higher priced boats.
If I can be of any assistance please feel free to call me at 1 888 517 3178.

[Tanner]

Eh, everyone has one. Sorry to hear about yours.

As to your listing problem.... make sure your weight is equal. Most people don't account for the weight of their stereo and batteries. Is the hull listing when you have other people on the port side? Don't forget, the driver is weight, and unless you have something to equal out the weight on the other side, it's gonna list!

I have a friend w/ an 09' SAN 210, that has already replaced one motor at 30 hours, and constant ballast pump issues.

Another buddies 08 VLX has massive cracks around his illusion tower, and his seats are beginning to move around in the boat, from the screws coming loose and getting stripped. And his maliview locks up solid all the damn time.

We can't figure out anothers 08 Supra SSV's perfect pass. Neither can the dealer. It shoots past the set speed and goes full throttle. Then about 40 it begins to back down to the set speed. Once there, it shoots full throttle again. Ever boarded at 40 mph?...it's eye opening...lol.

My point is, everybody has problem boats. I can't believe Harvey at Tige won't get back to you though. I've always got a call back from them the same day. Usually within 2 or 3 hours max!

You say a better quality boat... but I say show me one. I've looked them all over, and I don't think there is one. I can pick apart any brand, including Tige... but they all have their strengths and weaknesses. IMHO Tige's quality as of late is on par w/ anyone you wanna name from this market.

[ImaPigDog]

Eh, everyone has one. Sorry to hear about yours.

As to your listing problem.... make sure your weight is equal. Most people don't account for the weight of their stereo and batteries. Is the hull listing when you have other people on the port side? Don't forget, the driver is weight, and unless you have something to equal out the weight on the other side, it's gonna list!

I have a friend w/ an 09' SAN 210, that has already replaced one motor at 30 hours, and constant ballast pump issues.

Another buddies 08 VLX has massive cracks around his illusion tower, and his seats are beginning to move around in the boat, from the screws coming loose and getting stripped. And his maliview locks up solid all the damn time.

We can't figure out anothers 08 Supra SSV's perfect pass. Neither can the dealer. It shoots past the set speed and goes full throttle. Then about 40 it begins to back down to the set speed. Once there, it shoots full throttle again. Ever boarded at 40 mph?...it's eye opening...lol.

My point is, everybody has problem boats. I can't believe Harvey at Tige won't get back to you though. I've always got a call back from them the same day. Usually within 2 or 3 hours max!

You say a better quality boat... but I say show me one. I've looked them all over, and I don't think there is one. I can pick apart any brand, including Tige... but they all have their strengths and weaknesses. IMHO Tige's quality as of late is on par w/ anyone you wanna name from this market.

If anything the weight in the boat is more on the port side (e.g. both batteries, two anchors, etc.). And, yes, I am aware to account for the driver of the boat (especially when it is me because I am a big guy). I have to fill up the port ballast just to even it out. You can see it in the wake. The mechanic at our dealer even experienced it and described it as "it is like there is a dead body in the starboard corner" of the boat.

That concerns me that that your friend had to have his PCM engine replaced after 30 hours.

Like I stated in one of my prior posts, I have been around boats all my life. I know how they are built and the environments that they are exposed to. I have looked them all over also. I researched all the inboards brands before purchasing the Tigé. Prior to this, we had a brand new I/O and I researched a laundry list of those as well. I get it. I have bought used and new boats but have never had this many problems.

I realize that there is a lot of personal pride in boat brands and I'm sorry if there are those of you who don't like to hear anything negative about Tigé. I understand that all brands are going to experience problems. I am on other forums besides this one. However, I can only share my Tigé experience (Isn't that what this site is for?) and compare/contrast the experiences of my friends and neighbors with different brands of inboards.

[Tanner]

Actually you'll find alot of the tige owners will band together and stand behind the owner (you in this case) if needed. Usually Tige steps up before that's even warranted though.

Maybe there really is a dead body in there though. A Tige worker fell in and got glassed over! HAHA....j/k.

[ImaPigDog]

I can assure you that your case is unique, and that Tige will step up and address your issues , they have been outstanding with any problem we have ever had .
No manufacturer can win 5 years in a row for customer satisfaction without backing their product, and the NMMA CSI award is far more valuable then a JD Powers .
As to PCM they make an exellent power plant and I am sure they took care of your issue, and if it was an issue with Tige it would be the same for CC who use the same power.
As to ballast in my oppinion , nobody has a perfect system ,that is the bulk of our work on every brand that comes to our shop, from pumps not priming to pump failure esspecially on much higher priced boats.
If I can be of any assistance please feel free to call me at 1 888 517 3178.

Dom - Thanks for the response and offer of assistance. At this point, I don't want to get any more parties involved.

I have my NMMA survey still sitting here on my desk. I haven't filled it out yet because I knew my response would be skewed very negatively and was hoping that Tigé would step up.

I sent a letter on July 30, 2009. I have since followed up with emails and phone calls to no avail. When does the "step up" part begin?

I don't want to get the hair standing up on the back of the happy Tigé owners' necks. I will not be commenting on this any further after tonight.

Spacecoast => I apologize for sending your thread off on a tangent. I can attest that I have heard nothing but good things about Kevin, Dom & crew at Forte's from their customers and other dealers. I would investigate what quality controls are in place at both factories (e.g. - Six Sigma process) Good luck in your decision!

[thtrog]

Eh, everyone has one. Sorry to hear about yours.

As to your listing problem.... make sure your weight is equal. Most people don't account for the weight of their stereo and batteries. Is the hull listing when you have other people on the port side? Don't forget, the driver is weight, and unless you have something to equal out the weight on the other side, it's gonna list!

I have a friend w/ an 09' SAN 210, that has already replaced one motor at 30 hours, and constant ballast pump issues.

Another buddies 08 VLX has massive cracks around his illusion tower, and his seats are beginning to move around in the boat, from the screws coming loose and getting stripped. And his maliview locks up solid all the damn time.

We can't figure out anothers 08 Supra SSV's perfect pass. Neither can the dealer. It shoots past the set speed and goes full throttle. Then about 40 it begins to back down to the set speed. Once there, it shoots full throttle again. Ever boarded at 40 mph?...it's eye opening...lol.

My point is, everybody has problem boats. I can't believe Harvey at Tige won't get back to you though. I've always got a call back from them the same day. Usually within 2 or 3 hours max!

You say a better quality boat... but I say show me one. I've looked them all over, and I don't think there is one. I can pick apart any brand, including Tige... but they all have their strengths and weaknesses. IMHO Tige's quality as of late is on par w/ anyone you wanna name from this market.

I'll send you a pic Tanner 60 hours on a new '09 Malibu VLX...Not One Single Problem or even a punch list for the first service. Owned a great used Tige...once you got past the tower. Not a apple to apple comparison IMHO, so I'll leave it at that. No Maliview offered in '08 I'm sure something will come up here and there with my new boat, but I have confidence in my dealer to make it right.

Hope it all gets worked out IPD...I've had emails and phone calls returned from Harvey when I had questions on my Tige. Good Luck!

[majestic]

90 hours and not one single warranty issue.