RZ2 Has No Push

[jbgp1200]

Would really appreciate any tips you could give me on weighting our 07 RZ2. I've done everything on here that people recommend and I'm just not getting our surf wave right.

We have 1100lb sacks in each locker and a 650 U shaped sack up in the bow. When I filled the surf side sacs, used bodies to get the boat down to almost the rub rail and the wave was ok. Steep, decent push but lacked length. We filled up my bow sac I pretty much lost ALL the push. Played with the taps between 2 and 7 and although I can get a really high and steep wave it just completely lacks push. Not sure what we are doing wrong.

I've been riding behind a much smaller 20.5 ft Natique that has a wave about half the height but it has great push. Our 2007 RZ2 has very little. Also the wave is so steep that even experienced riders can not keep the boards nose from plunging into the wave.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

JB

[rhoadsdj]

What speeds have you been trying?

[Ewok]

Pics or video might help too.

[jbgp1200]

Speed ranging from 10 to 11.5. Unfortunately the only pics I have right now are with no bow weight which isn't going to help much here. Ill have to take some this weekend.

[all2matt]

I would start with 100% rear surf side, 25% front, 15% offside, taps @ 4, and speed at 10.6, then from there slowlly add some 10% bow & 5% offside til u get what u want. The hardest part is knowing % but just run the pumps for a minute then go from there. One huge question youll need to check is your water depth, if its less than 15ft its going to alot harder to maximize your wake. if your over that you should be able to apply all these thoeries. if all else fails start with all full rear surf side and add 500-750#s to the surf side seat and have fun with the steep

[Ewok]

I addition to the pictures, how many people were on the boat with you? Do you have that 650 under the seats or on top of the seats? Also, what is your definition of "push" and where on the face of the wave do you feel there was no "push". What board are your surfing on and how long have you been wakesurfing? I ask these questions because some things are hard to quantify, some things are subjective and some times people need help with techniques of riding a surf board.

Big picture, to dial in your boat wave you need to try to adjust one variable at a time and observe how changing that one variable affected the wave. I think you are off to a good start but you need to be patient to find the setup that works for your load configuration.

1. Set TAPS to 0, Fill the rear surf locker only and have people sit on the surf side.

2. Without a rider on the wave, set speed at 10 mph and increase in very slow increments up to 12.5 mph. As you slowly increase the speed by increments of .2 mph, give it about 30 seconds to stabilize and see what the wave does for you. Note what speed the wave looked the best.

3. After you find that basic baseline wave, it's time to fine tune and adjust that wave. If you want a taller and steeper wave, you need to increase the TAPS. As you do this, bow will rise and the wave will start to become shorter. Again, make a small change to TAPS and wait 30 for the wave to stabilize and see what you get. You will eventually get to a point with too high a TAPS setting and the wave will wash out and become too short and unrideable. Bring the TAPS plate back to where you thought the wave looked it's best.

4. One final piece of adjustment is the bow weight. With the other two variables set, you can now use bow weight to lengthen the pocket a little. I would start off with 1/2 full bag for the bow and see what that does to the wave. It will make it a little shorter but it will make it longer and give you more space on the front of the wave to play with.

5. Now get out there and ride that wave. Remember it will be a little different since you are not on the boat anymore. When you ride the wave, keep a hold of the rope for a while and play around on the face. If you want to make more fine tune adjustments you can yell directions at the boat driver. For example, if you get to a nice long pocket but want the wave just a little higher, increase the taps just a smidge. Use the rope to cut away from the wave so you can get an outside perspective of the wave and give some more fine tune adjustments for the driver to make.

6. The settings you find should be stored in your memory bank, or at least a piece of paper that you keep in the glove box. Use this setting as a baseline for the next outing because conditions, people weight, fuel and other variables can change drastically from day to day.

Setting up a surf wave is not easy and no one has introduced an easy button for the consumer to dial in the wake for them, yet, but hang in there and have fun experimenting. Once you get the wave dialed in and you still have trouble, it might be your surf technique.

[Surf406]

do you have the standard 07 platform? if so id trim the edges off of it purely based on that platform is definatly to big and it cuts down the wave noticeably.

[retox1]

I also have a 07 RZ2 and sounds like I have almost the same setup as you. Im surprised to hear your having trouble with not enough push. I've found this boat to be extremely easy to get a surfable wave with even very minimal weight, and the more you add, it just keeps getting better. your best bet is going to be to just keep messing with it. Try some offside weight, play with your speed and Taps, and see what works for you. Maybe try adding another sac on your seat if you can. And cut your platform down or build a smaller one. I found that to make a big difference in mine.

[jbgp1200]

Thank you all for your advice and tips. Ewok, Thank you so much for the time it took to write this up. Great advice and I will be trying everything.

Here is a picture of the wave with no bow weight, about 950lbs on the surf side would be my guess and 2 190lb men. 1 driver and one in the corner. Not a ton of weight but its what we had that night. The push was not bad with no bow weight but the wave was short. I'm also on a new much shorter board here that im still getting used to. (Hyperlite Broadcast 4'8") the 5'4" is a bit easier to ride. Also tried a much faster Inland that I am used to riding behind a Natique 210. But even with all 3 boards adding the bow weight just killed the push.

no bow weight.jpg

The only reason I didn't have bow weight that night was because I discovered I need to break the fiberglass walls out of the bow for the U shaped sac to fit. If it wasnt for that hang up i may not even have tried without bow weight and would never know that the push seems better without it. (Maybe I should have gone with 2 sacs instead of a U shaped 650lb, I don't know.

In any case the next trip out we did add 100% 650lb bow weight with the bag sitting on the bow seats not under. We had 5 adults on the boat, the rub rail at the water line taps set between 3 and 5. Wave did get longer, very steep but just didnt have much push.

Retox1, What weight and taps settings have you found work? You seem to be really happy with the 07.

Not really related to my issue but something i did find interesting and thought others might too.

On the left we have a 110k 2014 23' Malubu with Surf Gate enabled. On the right my 07 RZ2 with about 950lbs on the surf side and 2 bodies in the boat and no bow weight. Very nice boat, surf gate at the touch of a button, a ton more money but I'm just not seeing much of a difference.

compare.jpg

[jbgp1200]

Yes I do have the factory swim deck. I know that it eventually needs to be trimmed.

[Timmy!]

My '07 RZ2 with no factory ballast doesn't like bow weight either. I run one of the custom sacs filled on the surf side and then a few hundred pounds on the opposite side and that gives the wave some length but keeps the push. What I try and do is fill the opposite side enough that it pulls the surf side's swim platform corner out of the water some, but the corner is still in the water (I have a newer platform though) and that's kind of how I gauge how much water I put in it. Once underway, I drain it down if the wave height is too short or the rider tells me that the push isn't there.

My boat is like yours, bow weight = no push and collapses the wave height in half. We usually run in the 10.6 to 11.2 range with taps between 3 and 4. Also, my wave is best when the gas tank is more than half full.
For an even better wave, we fill one of the v-drive sacs and set it on the floor of the surf side as far back as we can get it. With that setup, I can run high 11's, low 12's in the mph with taps at 5 or 6 and still have good push and probably 5'-6' more pocket length.

[Ewok]

Thanks for the pictures. Timmy! and I have found that our boats have different load configurations to get a good wave. My boat likes a little weight up front. My U-Shaped sac in the bow is the smaller 400# but it gets squished between the bow seat supports so it doesn't fill to capacity, I guess about 250-300 ish up there.

The starboard side wake is going to be a little different and require a slightly different load configuration than the port side due to the rotation of the prop. My wife rides goofy and when I set it up for her I usually have the surf side full, the bow sac full and a little weight on the non-surf side. The way to dial in the non-surf side is to fill up the non-surf side about half full and see how it affects the wave, then drain it as your are running to see the wave shape up and stop draining when it gets perfect for you. Then, look at the sac and try to guess how much is in there, and it gives you a close ball park for your next outing.

I also have to use a little less TAPS and .4mph faster than my port wave to get it to clean up nice without spray and with a long pocket for my wife.

Stick with it, it's a little time consuming to dial in a wave but that boat has great potential, you just have find the right combo to unlock it.

[tigeunrest]

Do you have the cooler removed? I removed mine and with the bag extended it made a big difference. I literally took a chisel and hammer one tap and the cooler popped out. It actually is so tall that I have to knock it down with people in the front. I also run counter weight usually I fill the arm of the bag when the boat is stationary. If I find I am getting prop splash on the starboard side I move bodies to that side or dump some ballast on the opposite side.
I do not have ballast installed in the front yet. I just picked them up though from MLA (intentional plug for MikeLiquidAudio) and will be installing them soon.
I also have my deck cut.

[jbgp1200]

No the cooler is still in place. Doesn't hold ice for long but it keeps hot food warm.

What sacs are you guys using in the front? I have a 650lb U shaped sac that Mike from MLA got for me but I'm now wondering if I should have gone with 2 smaller sacs so I could just fill up one side of the bow. when that 650 is full keeping the boat dry is near impossible. Have to be really careful not so swamp it. Also I am a little concerned about literally breaking the support walls out of the nose of the bow so U shaped sac will fit.

[Ewok]

I would have gone with a 200lb sac on each side but thats a slightly more complicated job of plumbing that in. My factory 400lb is too big for the space under the seats. I would be concerned about dunking the bow as well with that much weight up there. When you try adding bow weight again, try filling that thing up only half way. Also, when you drop a rider and need to turn around, slow the boat down to idle speed very slowly so you don't dip the bow and let the boat slowly turn around at idle speed so the rollers will pass you by before getting a chance to dunk the bow.