Where do you put the intakes and pumps on a 24Ve?

[majestic]

Wow... And I thought I big dealed my install! Seems like a lot of waisted energy for thru-hull placement

[IDBoating]

Drilling big holes in a brand new hull IS a big deal!

[Ewok]

That's my current thought, yes. There is an open space opposite the muffler/exhaust that is clear of the swing space needed by the rudder. Between the centerline of the hull and the first stringer there is a space at least 12 inches wide running from the transom forward to under the engine near the oil intercooler.

There is enough open area here, and enough vertical clearance if kept aft of the engine, to mount the pumps vertically with dedicated intake thru hulls.

This area is also aft of the triducer so the intakes will not create turbulence for its sensors.

Of the various options, this one looks the best so far. But you seem surprised... is there something I haven't thought about?

Even if you mount the pumps through the hull and not through the transom you still won't be able to fill above idle speeds unless you have a scooper intake for the pumps, and that invites it's own problems such as filling when you don't want to be filling the sacs. And the lowest point in the boat is not the transom so if you want the best head pressure for the pumps it's better to put them through the hull a little closer to the front.

[IDBoating]

Even if you mount the pumps through the hull and not through the transom you still won't be able to fill above idle speeds unless you have a scooper intake for the pumps, and that invites it's own problems such as filling when you don't want to be filling the sacs.

Haven't heard that before. These guys on a Centurion on my lake were filling while surfing, so I'm not sure what they use. I do know that the guys on this board who sell ballast systems recommend against mounting intakes on the transom for the specific reason that you cannot fill while moving at speed, which strongly suggests it is possible if the intakes are mounted on the hull.

And the lowest point in the boat is not the transom so if you want the best head pressure for the pumps it's better to put them through the hull a little closer to the front.

You're absolutely correct on the ConvexV hull. When sitting still in the water or on the trailer, any bilge water settles toward the low point which seems to be directly under the v-drive. But when underway, the bow is (or should be!) elevated. I haven't owned my boat long enough to confirm this, but I suspect that when underway and not decelerating any water in the bilge settles toward the transom. Note that Tige mounts the bilge pump aft, not toward the center.

[dom w. forte]

That's my current thought, yes. There is an open space opposite the muffler/exhaust that is clear of the swing space needed by the rudder. Between the centerline of the hull and the first stringer there is a space at least 12 inches wide running from the transom forward to under the engine near the oil intercooler.

There is enough open area here, and enough vertical clearance if kept aft of the engine, to mount the pumps vertically with dedicated intake thru hulls.

This area is also aft of the triducer so the intakes will not create turbulence for its sensors.

Of the various options, this one looks the best so far. But you seem surprised... is there something I haven't thought about?

I wouldnt mount anything on the delta pad, this will effect coffiecnt of drag and disturb the flow to the trim plate, which can also effect wake shape, also anything in the range of the prop could also have adverse affects.

[Timmy!]

Honestly, look to what the mfr does. They have already thought about it way more than you ever will because they have to worry about x number of boats out in the hands of the consumer and the failure rate associated to the cost of repairs, how much time would be needed by a dealer to fix something wrong with it, the boat sinking, drag, etc. They didn't just randomly pick a spot to put the pumps.

[IDBoating]

Honestly, look to what the mfr does. They have already thought about it way more than you ever will because they have to worry about x number of boats out in the hands of the consumer and the failure rate associated to the cost of repairs, how much time would be needed by a dealer to fix something wrong with it, the boat sinking, drag, etc. They didn't just randomly pick a spot to put the pumps.

True enough, but they also have had problems with self-priming. Review the ballast discussions here and read for yourself. I am a huge Tige fan, but that doesn't mean they get everything correct every time. That's why I'm doing lots of research - to help make sure I do it properly.

I will say that I'm giving more consideration to Tige's own location, now that vertically mounted pumps are possible. While I was working with a horizontal configuration there just wasn't room in that little space for a manifold, but vertical pumps consume far less real estate. The downside of vertical mounting is problems with self-priming, as noted above. That is made worse the more forward you mount the pumps because the draft is reduced, so moving to Tige's spot just makes it more likely I'll have problems - and may explain why THEY have had problems there.

I also don't know if there is adequate vertical clearance in that area to mount my choice of thru hull, valve, and pump in a vertical configuration. The space between the floor and hull gets tighter the farther forward you go. Behind the engine, it's open all the way to the top of the hatch.

Finally, perturbations of the hull in that area can cause turbulence in front of the triducer, which is just aft of that area and starboard of the keel. That can mess with the ability to accurately read speed and temperature.

Hence all my research. I don't want to regret drilling holes in the wrong place in my hull.

[IDBoating]

I wouldnt mount anything on the delta pad, this will effect coffiecnt of drag and disturb the flow to the trim plate, which can also effect wake shape, also anything in the range of the prop could also have adverse affects.

Excellent points. I was going to avoid the pad anyway. As for the prop, I believe I'll be at or aft of the rudder pivot so that puts me well aft of the prop.

So far, my examination of this area behind the engine has been limited by the relative darkness of the inside storage area. I won't make any concrete decisions until I have the boat out of storage and in the sunshine, where I can look inside and outside of the hull. I sincerely appreciate your comments and cautions, please keep them coming.

[Timmy!]

The priming issue is inherent with an aerator pump. Go with the jabsco's and a scoop intake and you will be good to go and it's a much easier install.

[IDBoating]

The priming issue is inherent with an aerator pump. Go with the jabsco's and a scoop intake and you will be good to go and it's a much easier install.

I agree the impeller pumps solve several problems, but they bring others. Substantially higher current draw, additional winter maintenance (which makes access all the more important), impeller replacement, longer fill/drain times, less convenient mounting, FAR more interconnection components since they must use hoses... the list goes on.

This is Engineering. Everything is a tradeoff. The key is to understand your options, then make an informed decision. I'm convinced the centrifugal pumps are the proper approach, now the question is how to best install them!

[dom w. forte]

True enough, but they also have had problems with self-priming. Review the ballast discussions here and read for yourself. I am a huge Tige fan, but that doesn't mean they get everything correct every time. That's why I'm doing lots of research - to help make sure I do it properly.

I will say that I'm giving more consideration to Tige's own location, now that vertically mounted pumps are possible. While I was working with a horizontal configuration there just wasn't room in that little space for a manifold, but vertical pumps consume far less real estate. The downside of vertical mounting is problems with self-priming, as noted above. That is made worse the more forward you mount the pumps because the draft is reduced, so moving to Tige's spot just makes it more likely I'll have problems - and may explain why THEY have had problems there.

I also don't know if there is adequate vertical clearance in that area to mount my choice of thru hull, valve, and pump in a vertical configuration. The space between the floor and hull gets tighter the farther forward you go. Behind the engine, it's open all the way to the top of the hatch.

Finally, perturbations of the hull in that area can cause turbulence in front of the triducer, which is just aft of that area and starboard of the keel. That can mess with the ability to accurately read speed and temperature.

Hence all my research. I don't want to regret drilling holes in the wrong place in my hull.

On a tige hull the farther forward the pumps are mounted the deeper the draft due to convex v, the ballast issues of priming wasnt due to the pump location but due to the exit hoses running down into the bildge and back up to the tanks, this created an air pocket much like a sink drain and the pumps wouldnt prime, we relocated every hose on our boats making a continues up run and never had any issues, also we made every vent hose level to improve fill time, they would also droop and create a water trap and slow flow.

[dom w. forte]

Have you decided on a location yet?

[IDBoating]

Your comments have made me reconsider the area between the fuel tank and the v-drive. I need to take some measurements there (boat is in storage so it's a bit less convenient right now) to confirm there is sufficient vertical clearance to vertically mount the pumps.

I visited TO user "Ewok", a local 2009 RZ2 owner, a couple of days ago and checked out his factory pump install which is in that area of the hull. At least one of his pumps is right up against the deck - virtually zero clearance. I didn't like that arrangement because of the potential stress on the pump and thru hull, particularly if someone were to stand in that area and deflect the deck down even a little bit. The factory uses different pumps than I'd use, so the dimensions need to be confirmed.

Furthermore, I'm still worried about mounting anything on the hull in front of the triducer. I've mounted transducers on hulls before and had horrible problems with turbulence; right now the one on the 24Ve is working great at all speeds and I don't want to do anything to jeapordize that.

At the moment, I still think the area behind the engine is the better option. But I trust your opinions and so I am reconsidering the factory's area. I need to confirm adequate vertical clearance, and the ability to place three pumps without being in front of the triducer, to make that area a viable option.

Thanks!

[Timmy!]

a guy on WW is selling off a bunch of ballast parts in case you are interested or need anything:
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/phall925/m.html

[IDBoating]

Ok, heres what I got using a virgin (not cut down) thru-hull and Rule 405C pump.
T-hull/ball-valve/pump = 11" from the t-hull outer flange.

Chpthril, what if this assembly used the T1200 pump? I have nine inches of vertical clearance where the factory mounts their pumps. Your measurements show the 405 pump consuming 11 inches, but it has that extra port on the bottom. I believe the T1200's don't have that, which might save some height. I've looked but cannot find specs on T1200 heights. Are the T1200's shorter than the 405's?

Thanks!