Ballast Pump Flow Comparison

[IDBoating]

No joke, the concept is a great idea. I have looked at having someone mold one for me, I just cant swing the cost of the mold plus the initial order. Too much upfront right now.

Check their website - they have a TON of ready-to-ship manifolds. Some are truly bizarre, like these one inch to multiple 3/4's:




You probably don't need to tool up anything, just buy off the shelf!

[IDBoating]

Why can't Fly high just upsize the inlet to meet customer demand?

Speaking for Fly High... I don't know, you'll have to ask them! {grin}

[chpthril]

Mike, thanks for doing that. Did you post this on WW yet? I would like to see it.

The best thing I see is that the T800 is not 2/3 the speed of the T1200.

A poor man's math suggests that a 400 pound sac = 50 gallons of water. If you push that in 5 minutes, then they are all pretty close to 10 GPM, give or take. I really want to see what the Jabsco ballast puppy does. The newer ones are supposed to be 11 GPM. Be sure to let us know what model you are using when you do it. This says 11 GPM: http://www.ittflowcontrol.com/marine...last-puppy.htm

OK, I'm looking at the Ballast Puppy box, and it clearly states: 9.0 flow rate! There are now shipping with the green impellers, i believe, I wonder if that has contributed to the drop in flow, and the PDF on line was out dated and represented the black impellers?

When I get some time next week, I will flow test the Jabsco along with WA's "Y" connector. I'll do the "Y" on both the jabsco and an aerator just to see how it effects the flow rate of each.

Also, I measured the ID's of the sac and both the 1" and 3/4" Fly High fittings.

Sac threads ID = 1.025
1" W743 = .735
3/4" W736 .525

In the original test, I tested the T800 with both 1" hose and 3/4" (without the supplied 3/4" fitting). In the 1" hose test, I had the 1" quick-conns on the sac, and for the 3/4 hose, I had the 3/4" quick-conn fittings. IMO, it's the 3/4" fittings that slow the water flow, not really the 3/4 hose, but I also feel it's too much trouble to try and stretch 3/4 hose over the 1" quick-conns.

Conclusion: No matter what pumps you choose, go with 1" hose and sac fittings if fill time is at or near the top of your ballast needs. If you want a bear-bones but functional 3-beer system (you can drink 3 beers while it fills) , then 3/4 hose will work just fine and save some $$$ on the hose and fittings.

[IDBoating]

When I get some time next week, I will flow test the Jabsco along with WA's "Y" connector. I'll do the "Y" on both the jabsco and an aerator just to see how it effects the flow rate of each.

Excellent, thank you!

Sac threads ID = 1.025

Is that the ID of the threads on the sac's female fitting? If so, what really matters is the ID of a male fitting that screws into it. That's the real ID that the water will see as it flows into or out of the sac. Since these are considered 3/4 inch fittings, I suspect it will be nearer 0.75 than 1.0 inch. What is THAT measurement?

[IDBoating]

IMO, it's the 3/4" fittings that slow the water flow, not really the 3/4 hose

I share that opinion. As stated earlier, I believe the restriction presented by the fittings is both severe and abrupt. Severe is bad enough, but an abrupt (shoulder wall) restriction causes enormous turbulence that makes the already bad situation worse.

I agree: (At least) one inch hoses and fittings everywhere. That leaves the problem of the sac's fittings. I suspect the actual water passage through them is narrower than the 1.025 you measured at the threads. Y'ing two hoses to two fittings should remove that obstruction. Your tests next week will determine any benefit to that trick.

Thanks!

[chpthril]

Excellent, thank you!



Is that the ID of the threads on the sac's female fitting? If so, what really matters is the ID of a male fitting that screws into it. That's the real ID that the water will see as it flows into or out of the sac. Since these are considered 3/4 inch fittings, I suspect it will be nearer 0.75 than 1.0 inch. What is THAT measurement?

That's the W743 Fly High fitting noted above, it's ID = .735 It's the 1" male quick-conn sac-valve thread fitting. In a 1" system, it will be the true bottle-neck.

[chpthril]

I share that opinion. As stated earlier, I believe the restriction presented by the fittings is both severe and abrupt. Severe is bad enough, but an abrupt (shoulder wall) restriction causes enormous turbulence that makes the already bad situation worse.

I agree: (At least) one inch hoses and fittings everywhere. That leaves the problem of the sac's fittings. I suspect the actual water passage through them is narrower than the 1.025 you measured at the threads. Y'ing two hoses to two fittings should remove that obstruction. Your tests next week will determine any benefit to that trick.

Thanks!

I cant remember which thread it was here lately, but I noted in one that extra ports can be added to an existing sac, but it's tricky. What Fly High calls their standard sacs, called the Pro-X series, all have at least 3 fittings and a couple of the non-std sacs have more. For a custom, they can have as many as is needed and the placement is where ever they need to be.

[jbort]

Mike:

Sent PM on custom sac. Jbort

[chpthril]

Update!

Ok, I got the Jabsco Ballast Puppy tested and wanted to update the results:

Rule 405FC 1100 GPH pump. 3/4" threaded inlet and a 1-1/8" outlet and 1" hose: 4:29 avg fill time.

Attwood Tsunami T1200 pump. 1-1/8 inlet and 1-1/8 outlet and 1" hose: 4:37 avg fill time.

Attwood Tsunami T1200 pump. 1-1/8 inlet and 1-1/8 outlet and 1" hose and W747 adapter: 4:44 avg fill time.

Attwood Tsunami T800 pump. 3/4" inlet and outlet with 1" hose. 4:57 avg fill time.

Attwood Tsunami T800 pump. 3/4" inlet and outlet with 3/4' hose and 3/4 Fly High quick-connects. 5:11 avg fill time

Attwood Tsunami T800 pump. 3/4" inlet and outlet with 3/4' hose and 3/4 Fly High quick-connects and the supplied 3/4 hose-barb connection on the outlet of the pump. 5:25 avg fill time

Jabsco Ballast Puppy reversible impeller type pump
1" hose and 1" Fly High Fittings filling at the bottom of the sac - Avg fill time = 5:20

1" hose and fittings filling at the top of the sac - Avg fill time 5:15

3/4" hose and fittings - Avg fill time = 5:42

[IDBoating]

Ok, I got the Jabsco Ballast Puppy tested and wanted to update the results

Did you get a chance to try the Y fitting to two sac inputs?

[talltigeguy]

Which jabsco model is it? The old ones were quoting 9 gpm, IIRC, but the new one says 11GPM. Please double check.

[chpthril]

Which jabsco model is it? The old ones were quoting 9 gpm, IIRC, but the new one says 11GPM. Please double check.

It's a brand new Jabsco 18220-1127 series Ballast Puppy pump with a green impeller.

[IDBoating]

Hey chpthril, did you get a chance to try the Y fitting to two sac inputs?

Thanks!

[chpthril]

Hey chpthril, did you get a chance to try the Y fitting to two sac inputs?

Thanks!

Net yet, and here is why: Ran cut me short the other day, and I just haven't had the time to set it all back up. But, here is a minor dilemma that I thought about.......The standard Fly High sacs come with 3 ports. For a typical aerator pump setup, you need a port on the bottom for the drain, a port on the top for filling, and one for a vent. This doesn't leave a port open for Y'd fill setup. Now, I have seen/read that some people do not do a vent, but IMO, the sac will collect air from the lines. The other reason I dont like going without a vent, is that the sacs will blow up like a balloon once full.

I can do this test with a std sac using the ballast puppy and use the bottom port and one top port to fill and the third port to vent. This will work with the ballast puppy because it showed little difference in fill time between filling through the bottom port or the top post. The aerators on the other hand, falling through the bottom will reduce the flow as the sac fills due to head pressure. IMP, this will lead to skewed data.

[IDBoating]

I have seen/read that some people do not do a vent, but IMO, the sac will collect air from the lines. The other reason I dont like going without a vent, is that the sacs will blow up like a balloon once full.

If you completely flattened the bag ahead of time (as little trapped air as possible), that would permit a reasonable test. The incoming water would not have to displace air, so no vent would be required. You might have to estimate when "full" occurs but it would be only a few seconds of uncertainty during a several minute test - not bad at all.