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Z3 with TAPS3 Review and TAPS3 vs AVX

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    #16
    First, I am going to preface that you should only do what you feel safe doing and be aware of whatever local laws are that govern that stuff. Also, we only surf when the water is calm and we are lucky to be able to go out in little traffic. Under heavy conditions you should be careful adding too much weight to the bow.

    Our RZX was the first one ever made, and I think it has more than 800 up front, pretty sure, but not positive. My answer to this is quite long, I am actually doing a new video on weighting listed and unlisted, some general rules I have learned.

    I will tell you that my thought on front weight is VERY different than a few years ago. There are some things you hear when asking about weighting, that I think are not completely true.

    1. Always start in a rear corner. (find my old weighting video, I say this as well)
    2. Some boats don't like too much weight up front.
    3. If you add too much weight up front, you lose push.

    What I have learned is that if you have to take weight out to make your wake better, its not because you have too much up front, its because you don't have enough in the back, or positioned far enough back. Every boat has a sweet spot, and that sweet spot is almost universally with a good amount of weight up front. Maybe 25-33% of total ballast, just a rough estimate. The solution to a good wake is to displace the most water possible and over as large an area as possible. If you don't weight the front, you get short steep, and a hole for a transition.

    Now don't get me wrong, you can't get the right weight on a bad hull and get a great wake. Some hulls just don't make good wakes.

    So if you start with the most weight you feel safe with for your conditions, and weight the rear to that, most likely you will get your boats best wake. And also put as much opposite weight as you can while still having a clean wake with a good lip. So as little list due to opposite weight as possible. This will displace the most water, which is just about the entire equation to getting maximum "push". Also, spreading the weight out is safer because the boat won't be tipping over and close to the water in some corner. Making sure the bow is sufficiently displaced also gives you a longer wake and a better transition with most hulls. The front of the boat helps SPREAD the water out which makes for less of a hole or trough behind the swim deck.

    This is especially true with the RZX, look at that CRAZY keel and front hull. Its so FLAT and WIDE. It becomes a plow spending the water out and allows for a more massive wave but yet has a super silky transition.

    That said, I feel like the 1100 lbs in the front of the Z3 was safe in most conditions and if I had a new one, if it was my boat, I would put 1100 in the front and make that my starting point. I have weighted more than 1100 in the Z3 a few times in the front, and I didn't like it, it didn't feel safe to me.

    I should add one thing, partly cuz I don't know when to shut up. ;-) The 24Ve was a big lesson with this. I always just figured the boat didn't like that much weight up front. Until I figured out how to get more weight far back, removing batteries and rear panels to get sacks that go ALL the way to the rear hull. Once I did that I was able to fill up the 700 lb front bag and that wake was old school listed heaven. ;-)

    Note to Dads: Test this stuff on a calm day, preferably a week day with a buddy or teenage kid and be safe. You don't want to do something that is going to spook your family (wife) and make it hard to get people on the boat the next time. Be patient. If you just got your 1000 lbs of lead and can't wait to try it but its busy and windy, save it for another day. Make smaller changes and enjoy each step.
    http://wake9.com/

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      #17
      Thanks for the ratio.

      So here's is what I'm going to do, given your numbers that you have had success with, the lead I bought is probably better utilized up front.... 3000lbs total, 990 needs to be up front. I'll disperse that in the bow, and then add the remaining 100 in the rear and see where that gets me...

      I guess the next question is, what total ballast number have you run safely with your family?
      Germaine Marine
      "A proud dealer of Tige, Supra, Moomba and ATX performance boats"

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        #18
        Thanks for the info on that.

        We have a 2015 Tige Z3 with AVX and really enjoy the wave...Just wish it was a bit longer

        Custom rear ballast bags (1500-1600 lbs) 250 lbs of lead in rear corner. 200 lbs of lead in observer, 50 lbs of lead up front. Speed 11.2-11.3 Taps 3, AVX 7

        I know you guys have shifted to a Taps 3 RZX but I was curious if you remember your AVX/weighting settings on your Z3

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          #19
          @elevated well, somewhere around 3200-3500 of water ballast with full up front, I think the Z3 was 1100 up front. I can't say for sure with level weight, but I would say maybe 1000 up front and 1000 in each corner would be something I would feel safe trying weighted level in a Z3.

          Be very careful using more than 200 lbs of lead up front, just a recommendation. But if you have 800 up there, 4 bags up there would be great. I sell those good lead wake bags by the way now, they are a sponsor for the West Coast Open, the money helps pay for the events, let me know if you need any.

          @greeko How is it going man? We made special sacks that filled up to the top of the lockers, had to be 14-1500 on each side. It also put the weight right where you want it. We had to seriously strengthen the walls. We just left taps 2 at 3 or 4 and started AVX around 4. Filled up surf side all the way and then the other so that when you start to see the cut in the wake, you take some opposite out and the moment it cleans, thats money. I think it was about 5 or 6 degrees of list on regular and maybe 8 on goofy. I don't remember what it was at rest. I may have it in an old post somewhere. The key is getting as much opposite weight as possible for lots of push. we had skim riders that wanted AVX at one, and then Thomas and RJ with AVX at 6 or so.
          http://wake9.com/

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by ragboy View Post
            @elevated well, somewhere around 3200-3500 of water ballast with full up front, I think the Z3 was 1100 up front. I can't say for sure with level weight, but I would say maybe 1000 up front and 1000 in each corner would be something I would feel safe trying weighted level in a Z3.

            Be very careful using more than 200 lbs of lead up front, just a recommendation. But if you have 800 up there, 4 bags up there would be great. I sell those good lead wake bags by the way now, they are a sponsor for the West Coast Open, the money helps pay for the events, let me know if you need any.

            @greeko How is it going man? We made special sacks that filled up to the top of the lockers, had to be 14-1500 on each side. It also put the weight right where you want it. We had to seriously strengthen the walls. We just left taps 2 at 3 or 4 and started AVX around 4. Filled up surf side all the way and then the other so that when you start to see the cut in the wake, you take some opposite out and the moment it cleans, thats money. I think it was about 5 or 6 degrees of list on regular and maybe 8 on goofy. I don't remember what it was at rest. I may have it in an old post somewhere. The key is getting as much opposite weight as possible for lots of push. we had skim riders that wanted AVX at one, and then Thomas and RJ with AVX at 6 or so.
            @Ragboy- The guy who makes them is right down the block.... But heck if the price is the same and its going to a good cause why not.

            Im going out on Sat morning early on glass to spend some more time getting it Dialed and Ill let you know how much more I need.

            So to recap, my boat comes with 1100s in each corner and 800 up front. With the 300lbs of lead I have, I am going to run 150 up front evenly spread out as that will take me to around 32% of the overall ballast. Where would you put the remaining 150 rag? Evenly dispersed between both sides or vary it according to crew size?

            Ps- How do I get into the bow lockers? I havent even looked yet but are the cushions locked into place or are they movable?
            Last edited by Germaine Marine; 05-25-2016, 04:03 AM.
            Germaine Marine
            "A proud dealer of Tige, Supra, Moomba and ATX performance boats"

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              #21
              I would take the 150 and put it like not just in the bow, but in the nose. I am willing to bet that 150 in the nose is equivalent to the extra 250 or so in the front sacs, because the front sacs are NOT in the front, they are between the driver and the front, not quite up there. So the extra leverage in the nose would be great. If it works, worry how to get them under the seat later. ;-)
              http://wake9.com/

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                #22
                Ok, I'll run 150 in the nose and run the remaining 150 in the rear corners.
                Germaine Marine
                "A proud dealer of Tige, Supra, Moomba and ATX performance boats"

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by ragboy View Post
                  @elevated well, somewhere around 3200-3500 of water ballast with full up front, I think the Z3 was 1100 up front. I can't say for sure with level weight, but I would say maybe 1000 up front and 1000 in each corner would be something I would feel safe trying weighted level in a Z3.

                  Be very careful using more than 200 lbs of lead up front, just a recommendation. But if you have 800 up there, 4 bags up there would be great. I sell those good lead wake bags by the way now, they are a sponsor for the West Coast Open, the money helps pay for the events, let me know if you need any.

                  @greeko How is it going man? We made special sacks that filled up to the top of the lockers, had to be 14-1500 on each side. It also put the weight right where you want it. We had to seriously strengthen the walls. We just left taps 2 at 3 or 4 and started AVX around 4. Filled up surf side all the way and then the other so that when you start to see the cut in the wake, you take some opposite out and the moment it cleans, thats money. I think it was about 5 or 6 degrees of list on regular and maybe 8 on goofy. I don't remember what it was at rest. I may have it in an old post somewhere. The key is getting as much opposite weight as possible for lots of push. we had skim riders that wanted AVX at one, and then Thomas and RJ with AVX at 6 or so.
                  Its going well, the school is in full swing. We are just trying to tune up the wave again, been over 8 months since we've used it. We have custom bags and around 2-300 of lead as well. I will try to get more like 5-6 degrees in there for list rather than 7-8.. i have this issue of the wave prematurely crashing on your back leg... I was trying to increase bow weight to lengthen it but it just made the wave smaller and didn't lengthen it much.

                  We were thinking about upgrading to an RZX this year... working with Kris Killick to make something happen.

                  Hope all is well down in norcal!

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                    #24
                    It is good, lakes are full!

                    Try speeding up, that helps the crash on your leg a lot. 11.4-11.8. If you like it real steep and so you adjust steep and it brings that curl again, speed up some more. The thing is, the AVX creates a lot of suction, if you speed up the wave will not get smaller, usually even bigger and get hard. Its a bit tougher to do some tricks, but when you get it, your airs will be huge and everything you do will be more dynamic.
                    http://wake9.com/

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by ragboy View Post
                      It is good, lakes are full!

                      Try speeding up, that helps the crash on your leg a lot. 11.4-11.8. If you like it real steep and so you adjust steep and it brings that curl again, speed up some more. The thing is, the AVX creates a lot of suction, if you speed up the wave will not get smaller, usually even bigger and get hard. Its a bit tougher to do some tricks, but when you get it, your airs will be huge and everything you do will be more dynamic.
                      Thanks Robert!
                      Appreciate the feedback. Will speed up from our usual 11.2/.3

                      When I speed up, where is the AVX suction force most effective?

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                        #26
                        greeko even in my 22ve in never run slower that 11.4 for me, usually 11.6-12, so you should get a mackin wave with that vx, take some pics when you get it dialed in.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by dukesofhazzard View Post
                          greeko even in my 22ve in never run slower that 11.4 for me, usually 11.6-12, so you should get a mackin wave with that vx, take some pics when you get it dialed in.
                          Hey man,

                          I used to run faster, i started slowing it down to help landing tricks. I run 11.1-11.2 on my buddy's Centurion FS33 and the wave is sooooo long and fun!

                          I will take pics of the wave for sure. I am content with it..I guess I got super spoiled after riding behind a loaded centurion FS33 and FS44... The wave has a really sick profile!!!

                          How is your wave turning out with the 22ve? Did you grab yourself a board yet? I may have a spare Soulcraft Fang Tail for sale...

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                            #28
                            yes I bought the js pro, only been out a couple of times, like it better already but def have to get used to it but more fun already. Is the centurion wave that much better you feel. I like the look of the new ri237 but I will never be able to afford a new boat, so in 10 yrs when you guys have these z3 dialed in I will be ready, maybe I should try a little slower too. Hmmmmm

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by dukesofhazzard View Post
                              yes I bought the js pro, only been out a couple of times, like it better already but def have to get used to it but more fun already. Is the centurion wave that much better you feel. I like the look of the new ri237 but I will never be able to afford a new boat, so in 10 yrs when you guys have these z3 dialed in I will be ready, maybe I should try a little slower too. Hmmmmm
                              I roll with the JS pro as well, great board. Very fast down the line and nice snap! Yeah, if you want to try tricks, slow her down...mellow the wave out.

                              The centurion has so much power behind the wave. You can mellow the wave and slow her down...she is still super long and tons of push...I find if i mellow out the Z3 and slow her down my pocket gets shorter and weaker.

                              The RI237 is a sick looking boat but I would go for an FS33/44. I ride behind a buddies 33 and it throws a STOMPER with no lead, extra wake and 2-3 people in the boat.... Let me know if you come up to Osoyoos .

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                                #30
                                double post

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