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Thread: Question for those with Shapers

  1. #1

    Question for those with Shapers

    Do you still use the factory Taps 3, or do you just load the ballast and go shaper only?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Saginaw
    Posts
    33
    Boat
    2004 Tige 22v
    I’ve seen all of them used but the shaper has to be moved if you switch from regular to goofy

  3. I load the ballast and still use the taps even though I have a wake shaper. Like Matt said, it needs to be on the opposite side of the rider

  4. #4
    Yep, get the move for side switching. I currently run 4/4 surf settings and I have 500 lbs of lead on the way (2018 R23)

    Just wondering if I just slam it down with the shaper or if I have to use taps in addition.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    944
    Boat
    2007 22ve
    The surf system (TAPS3) is a great way to help shape the wave so just mess with it a bit.
    I saw some pretty good results playing with a shaper and TAPS 3 on my buddies 17’ Z3.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    179
    Boat
    2013 R20 with the VX
    so you guys are saying that even with Taps 3, a suck-gate type shaper is still beneficial? That seems ridiculous to me. What's the point of me upgrading to a newer boat if you still need to manually stick a shaper to the side before every session?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Murrieta, CA
    Age
    50
    Posts
    1,031
    Boat
    Previously 2004 22i, 2014 Z1, now 2015 Z3 with GSA
    This may be a controversial statement, but I am going to go out on a limb here and offer my unsolicited feedback... you should NEVER need a wakeshaper if you are using TAPS 3 CORRECTLY!. If you dial in the proper pitch and roll degrees, and weight it correctly to get there, the wave on a TAPS 3 boat will far surpass any wave with any wake shaper. The problem as I see it, is many people do not know how or don't spend the time to dial in a wave. Review the posts from elevatedconcepts and thegerman618 in here on dialing in a Z3, follow their recommended settings, and I promise you - you will love the wave WITHOUT a shaper. If it's not a Z3 or R23 with TAPS 3, in other words, another model with TAPS 3, you just need to spend the time to get the right settings, weight distribution, pitch and roll, and you will be golden. Before someone flame sprays me with the "I spent all kinds of money, I shouldnt have to dial it in" comment, I get it. You can still get a good wave without spending the time... but if you want the best wave you can get out of your boat, spend some time learning what your boat can do and how to dial it in. Some might disagree with this feedback, and I respect that. However, I stand by this entire statement with 100% certainty. Wakeshapers are great for pre-TAPS 3 boats. If you are using it WITH TAPS3, you are not getting the best wave you can out of your boat. My opinion folks. I have my kevlar vest on, so I am prepared for the responses, LOL.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Saginaw
    Posts
    33
    Boat
    2004 Tige 22v
    I agree that you shouldn’t need a wake shaper while having taps 3 but if you’re not switching sides or jumping the wake then it won’t hurt having it there but as stated before that boat displaces a lot and shouldn’t have an issue. I personally hate having the wake shaper on but I don’t have the luxury of taps 3

  9. You won’t need the shaper with 500 lbs lead. That’s exactly what I have in same boat and wave is awesome

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Murrieta, CA
    Age
    50
    Posts
    1,031
    Boat
    Previously 2004 22i, 2014 Z1, now 2015 Z3 with GSA
    Quote Originally Posted by bmbendele View Post
    You won’t need the shaper with 500 lbs lead. That’s exactly what I have in same boat and wave is awesome
    500 is good, 1000 is great, 1400 is GOLD... ask me how I know - We won't load 1400 though on a rough day. Conditions have to be right, cause it SLAMS the boat. Right prop, right conditions, right pitch and roll... GOOD LORD is that a beautiful wave!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by bmbendele View Post
    You won’t need the shaper with 500 lbs lead. That’s exactly what I have in same boat and wave is awesome
    Sweet! You running it all in the rear lockers?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    944
    Boat
    2007 22ve
    I’ll add my two cents and this isn’t meant to come off argumentative at all so please take it as one simple mans opinion.
    D&P, I agree you definitely don’t need a shaper with TAPS 3 (or want, I kinda thought that’d be obvious as TAPS 3 is a stand-alone surf system).
    The major difference is function. A shaper delays convergence from the side and creates drag causing the boat to yaw. TAPS 3 promotes very controllable angles of list by deploying under the boat allowing for fine tuning of the shape of the wave while also delaying convergence albeit from a different part of the boat and in a different manner. The end result is totally different because of how the boat ends up traveling through the water.
    Have you ever tried a shaper on a TAPS 3 boat? Is it conceivable that it your wave could get even better? I’m not saying that it’s a game changer, we were just messing with it for sh$ts and giggles. I’m only saying I did mess with it briefly and was actually surprised how well it worked. I think you may be as well. All these systems come along from trial and error, if people weren’t constantly trying new things out and tweaking designs we’d all still be listing with no devices.
    One of the things I’ve noticed about TAPS 3 boats is you need a lot of weight to get a really quality wave, case in point, needing to load an additional 1400 lbs of lead in a boat that already has 3000 lbs of ballast. I get the end goal and trust me, I’m with you, but I think comparing the TAPS 2 boats with a shaper to a TAPS 3 boat is like comparing apples to oranges.
    I get that you guys with the TAPS 3 boats are stoked on them and many think it’s the pinnacle of surfing but saying that they far surpass ANY boat with a shaper is just plain wrong IMO. I personally prefer the wave my 07’ 22VE puts out over my buddies 17’ Z3 and before you say it’s not dialed correctly I’ll admit I’m sure it could be better but I have followed the progress elevated and the German made in tweaking their waves and I do do have quite a bit of time playing with his boat. I’m also not a rookie to operating and tweaking all sorts of machinery to maximize potential. He only has 500 lbs of lead on top of the surf XL ballast but we also typically have 6-10 adults on board when out rallying so at any given time there is around 4700-5000 pounds in the boat. That’s about 1k more than mine and the boat is bigger and heavier as well.
    Bottom line is automated systems are awesome (surfgates, TAPS3, GSA, Infinity, whatever..) but if you’re not into transfers and don’t mind taking the :45 seconds it takes to install a suck gate, I just don’t think there’s that much advantage to having one.
    It’s really all about how the individual boat is dialed in. Blanket statements when talking about this stuff just don’t work and aren’t accurate.
    Last edited by Jetdriver; 08-13-2019 at 08:14 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Murrieta, CA
    Age
    50
    Posts
    1,031
    Boat
    Previously 2004 22i, 2014 Z1, now 2015 Z3 with GSA
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetdriver View Post
    Have you ever tried a shaper on a TAPS 3 boat? Is it conceivable that it your wave could get even better? I’m not saying that it’s a game changer, we were just messing with it for sh$ts and giggles. I’m only saying I did mess with it briefly and was actually surprised how well it worked. I think you may be as well.
    I have. I agree, it creates a LARGE wave, with tons of push, but it lacks in length and in shape in my opinion. Fun? Absolutely. Worth doing every time, I personally don't think so. No argument though that it makes a difference in that the wave gets very tall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetdriver View Post
    One of the things I’ve noticed about TAPS 3 boats is you need a lot of weight to get a really quality wave, case in point, needing to load an additional 1400 lbs of lead in a boat that already has 3000 lbs of ballast. I get the end goal and trust me, I’m with you, but I think comparing the TAPS 2 boats with a shaper to a TAPS 3 boat is like comparing apples to oranges.
    Totally agree here. I was commenting that you don't need a wake shaper with TAPS 3. A wake shaper with 2014 boats and older... would definitely recommend it. Which one is another argument, but I am a firm believer that different types of wake shapers are better than others on different boats. I tried just about every one on our 2014, and considered wakesurf edge to be the best. A friend tried just about every one on his 1990s era boat, and the Delta worked best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetdriver View Post
    I get that you guys with the TAPS 3 boats are stoked on them and many think it’s the pinnacle of surfing but saying that they far surpass ANY boat with a shaper is just plain wrong IMO.
    Stoked on TAPS 3, yes, pinnacle... No, not in my opinion. I have GSA, it's much better than the TAPS 3 plates in my opinion (and apparently Tiges as well). I may have miscommunicated. I was trying to say if someone had a wakeshaper and was using it WITH TAPS3, a correctly dialed wave WITHOUT the shaper would surpass any added shaper to that same boat. I stand by my opinion on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetdriver View Post
    Blanket statements when talking about this stuff just don’t work and aren’t accurate.
    I re-read my statement, twice. I was expecting return on my opinions, and welcome them, but I never expected something like this. I don't think my recommendation to lose a wakeshaper if you own a TAPS 3 boat, and dial that TAPS 3 boat in is a blanket statement. Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree on the term "blanket statement"?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,108
    Boat
    2015 Z3, 1999 2100i
    I won a shaper at the reunion last year and have had a blast messing with it. We run 1400lbs at times but usually around 1200 and throw the wedge on there because it takes 5 seconds and we are still constantly playing with it.
    Fixing everyone elses boat just so I can use mine...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    944
    Boat
    2007 22ve
    D&P, the blanket statement I was referring to that you made was this, “If you dial in the proper pitch and roll degrees, and weight it correctly to get there, the wave on a TAPS 3 boat will far surpass any wave with any wake shaper.”
    I wasn’t attacking you man, I also wasn’t blasting your opinion out of the water, simply disagreeing with it and stating mine. My apologies if my post came off that way.
    I agree that adding a shaper onto a TAPS3 boat (especially with GSA plates, although I’ve yet to get to see them in action) is unnecessary.
    Obviously TAPS 3 has areas to be improved hence Tige’ deciding to move to GSA plates, yet another example of tweaking in the continued pursuit of a better wave.
    I completely agree that not all shapers work are the same, I have a Nauticurl I bought and a Mission Delta that was given to me by a friend through a lake find. I like to tinker and I decided to try my hand at fabricating my own as they both leave much to be desired. After several prototypes (I made 5 using different angles, shapes, and sizes of faceplates) I settled on a design and have ran it head to head against the other two. I believe, as did all my unbiased company (at least those that wanted a ride back to shore) that mine performed better than the Nauticurl and the Delta. My Nauticurl and Delta both collect dust in my garage.
    I always liked the wakesurf edge, very similar in size and angle as the design I settled on. Only drawback is the width of the faceplate (particularly on the bottom) doesn’t allow it to fit well on certain hulls. The Nauticurl has the same issues because of its cumbersome length.

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    Last edited by Jetdriver; 08-14-2019 at 01:42 AM.

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