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Thread: Another won't start issue!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    29
    Boat
    2005 22v

    Another won't start issue!

    Hello All,
    My 2005 22v won't start. Here is what led up to today.

    End of last season starter was acting like it was ready to fail.
    Charged and tested both batteries last month.
    Replaced starter yesterday, turn key on get alarm and fuel pump. Click- no start.
    Bypass 90amp fuse lead at starter. Click- no start
    Jump at starter, engine turns over fine.
    Replace starter slave solenoid, Click- no start!
    Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
    Max

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
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    1,599
    Boat
    2017 RZX3, 2013 MB F24, 2000 21V
    If it turns over fine when you jump it at the starter that tells me the starter is ok, battery cables and battery’s are good. I would have some one hold the key in the crank position while you check the voltage at the solinoid terminal on the starter. My guess is that you have low voltage there and it’s not fully actuating the soliniod.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    Seattle
    Posts
    29
    Boat
    2005 22v
    Thanks Unstuck,
    I will give it a try. Do you think I may have a bad starter solenoid even though its new? What would cause the voltage drop between the slave and the starter?
    The slave is clicking.
    Thanks, Max

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    2,067
    Or you could just buy a starter and be done with it. If its painted black and hasnt had a block swap I'd bet its the starter that came on that engine. 14 years isnt a bad run.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    29
    Boat
    2005 22v
    freeheel4life,
    I replaced the starter yesterday figuring the same thing. I then replaced the starter slave solenoid today still just a click at the slave
    Thanks, Max

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    2,067
    Sorry missed that. Sounds like a voltage drop issue then. Time to pull out the meter and have fun then.

    Theres a forum member names Lil Red that had a similar issue on an 05-06 last year that ended being ECM was them problem. I also just realized you probably have an MP painted silver. Getting tipsy on a Friday..
    Last edited by freeheel4life; 05-11-2019 at 04:08 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    Seattle
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    2005 22v
    Thanks, That is definitely my next step. I'm wondering what could cause a voltage drop on the short path from the slave at the top of engine to the starter?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
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    1,599
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    2017 RZX3, 2013 MB F24, 2000 21V
    Test the solinoid wire with the wire connected to it and note the voltage. Then remove the wire from the solinoid and run the same test on just the wire. Don’t waste time doing these tests. If the wire proves to have a restriction it could start getting hot.

    If you have low voltage with the wire attached and full voltage with it disconnected your solinoid is likely shorting out.

    If you have low voltage with the wire attached and disconnected you have a problem upstream and the starter is fine. Check the connection at the ignition switch. Is the wire loose there? If not remove the wire and check voltage at the switch terminal. If you have full voltage there you must have either a bad wire in the loom somewhere or maybe that wire connects to something else between the switch and starter. Perhaps a relay that is pulling voltage.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
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    44
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    1,108
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    2015 Z3, 1999 2100i
    One of two issues: neutral safety switch or starter relay. Look for the yellow with red stripe wires connected to the two terminal neutral switch on top of the transmission. Jump the terminals using alligator clips or remove both wires and connect together. If the engine starts when you turn the key to start while connecting the two wires, the problem is the neutral safety switch. You can also use a multi meter here touch one yellow with red stripe wire with the red multimeter terminal and put the black to ground. Turn the key to start and see if voltage is present. If so, test the other yellow with red stripe and do the same thing. If you have voltage on both terminals when you turn the key to start, the switch is fine. If you have voltage on only one side when you turn the key to start, the switch is bad (or its not in neutral all the way). If you have no voltage on either side when you turn the key to start, the start relay is bad.

    The start relay is located on top of the engine, engine aft of the flame arrestor. Thats boat forward on the v-drive models and boat aft on direct drives. The relay is in a group of 3 and looks like a 1" cube with wires coming out the bottom. All three relays are the same but provide different functionality on the engine. Look for the relay with the yellow with red stripe wire, thats the start relay. Tap on it while holding the key in the start position. If the boat starts, replace the relay.
    Last edited by boatwakes; 05-13-2019 at 02:58 PM.
    Fixing everyone elses boat just so I can use mine...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Seattle
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    29
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    2005 22v
    Quote Originally Posted by boatwakes View Post
    One of two issues: neutral safety switch or starter relay. Look for the yellow with red stripe wires connected to the two terminal neutral switch on top of the transmission. Jump the terminals using alligator clips or remove both wires and connect together. If the engine starts when you turn the key to start while connecting the two wires, the problem is the neutral safety switch. You can also use a multi meter here touch one yellow with red stripe wire with the red multimeter terminal and put the black to ground. Turn the key to start and see if voltage is present. If so, test the other yellow with red stripe and do the same thing. If you have voltage on both terminals when you turn the key to start, the switch is fine. If you have voltage on only one side when you turn the key to start, the switch is bad (or its not in neutral all the way). If you have no voltage on either side when you turn the key to start, the start relay is bad.

    The start relay is located on top of the engine, engine aft of the flame arrestor. Thats boat forward on the v-drive models and boat aft on direct drives. The relay is in a group of 3 and looks like a 1" cube with wires coming out the bottom. All three relays are the same but provide different functionality on the engine. Look for the relay with the yellow with red stripe wire, thats the start relay. Tap on it while holding the key in the start position. If the boat starts, replace the relay.
    Thank you boatwakes
    I have 12v at the red lead on starter relay and also have 12v on yellow/red side when key is on.
    I have 12v at circuit breaker button.
    I think I found the neutral safety switch on the side of the transmission. I attached both leads(on my boat they are yellow/black and black) to the neutral safety switch at transmission to 1 post ,still just get a click.
    Just to restate, it is my circuit reset terminal that is clicking, not my starter relay.
    also, when i jump the starter terminals the engine cranks.
    I'm attaching a photo of the starter relay, I'm hoping someone can take a look and confirm it is wired correctly.
    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Max
    starter relay2.jpgstarter relay1.jpg
    Last edited by 22vmax; 05-14-2019 at 02:59 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Long Beach, CA
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    2015 Z3, 1999 2100i
    Sorry, life happened. Send of pic of what you think is the neutral safety switch, both leads on it should be yellow with red, the same color that attaches to the starter. Also, try holding the key in the start position while moving the shifter from forward to reverse. If you hear it try to start, neutral safety switch problem.
    Fixing everyone elses boat just so I can use mine...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Seattle
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    29
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    2005 22v
    Quote Originally Posted by boatwakes View Post
    Sorry, life happened. Send of pic of what you think is the neutral safety switch, both leads on it should be yellow with red, the same color that attaches to the starter. Also, try holding the key in the start position while moving the shifter from forward to reverse. If you hear it try to start, neutral safety switch problem.
    No problem, I appreciate the help. I'm going to spend time on it Sunday. It's going to be nice on Monday so I'm determined to get on the water! I'm really starting to think my problem is "operator error" I just can't make sense of it. It started at the end of the season when I winterized it. Put a new starter in it, won't start. New solenoid, breaker reset, charged and load tested batteries. Still just a click at the 50amp breaker reset when I turn the ignition. I checked and have continuity at the starter fuse as well as trigger wire from starter to solenoid. Here is the picture of what I believe to be the neutral safety lead off the transmission. I don't see an other wires attached to the transmission.Transmission.jpg

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Long Beach, CA
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    2015 Z3, 1999 2100i
    Thats the neutral safety switch. Wire colors are odd but thats it.

    If you connect the two terminal posts on the top of the start solenoid (we use a wrench or something larger than wire), does it turn over? If yes, then go to the back of the key switch and connect the red wire with the yellow with red wire. If that bumps the starter too, your key switch is bad.
    Fixing everyone elses boat just so I can use mine...

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