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Thread: No Kneelers in NASCAR

  1. #16
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    So Josh, as you try to warp my words into a contradiction, do you not see the double standard I was trying to point out? And to be honest - to answer your loaded questions - NO and NO. But I think you missed the point I was making in those statements...

    Again, my actual point and what angers me is about the disrespect for our country and military.

  2. #17
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    Oh boy, here we go... doing something I said I'd never do... posting on a divisive topic.....

    1. The PCU reference / clip is hysterical. “we’re not gunna protest!”

    2. Considering the “off topic” location of Mike’s thread, I find it a perfectly acceptable place for a topic like this to be posted. Like most, I certainly don’t navigate to this forum to read about anything political, but no one is obligated to click on the link to read / participate. Furthermore, I find Mike’s diplomatic tone about as moderate as you will find on a topic as divisive as this appears to be. In my opinion, that’s refreshing when you contrast his approach to all the screaming, yelling, and unsubstantiated claims – on both sides of the debate. I also enjoy reading a variety of viewpoints and find it interesting to learn more about my fellow boaters’ opinions on a topic like this.

    3. While I respect anyone’s right to protest, including kneeling during the national anthem, that right does not exempt them from criticism from those that respectfully disagree. Furthermore, it doesn’t relieve them of any consequences that may result from their actions (see: Kaepernick, Colin and his inability to convince an NFL GM or owner that his talents as a quarterback do not fully compensate for the likely blowback that would occur as a result of his signing).

    4. I would find the kneeling protest a little more palatable if after grabbing the collective attention of the nation that someone respectfully and honestly explained the intent of the protest. And I’m not talking about a bunch of screaming and yelling about police brutality and systemic racism. I need someone to go beyond anecdotal evidence (which in many cases is debunked) and provide me legitimate research and hard data that illustrates exactly what they are claiming (rather than cramming what appears to be a false narrative down everyone’s throats and leveraging a complicit media to perpetuate the claim). Newsflash… athletes have had the opportunity to broadcast your message loud and clear for quite some time now… without making a legitimate point, the approach seems to be superficial and appears to be nothing more than grandstanding.

    5. By no means am I suggesting that our society is devoid of racism. Furthermore, I’m not claiming that police brutality doesn’t exist. However, I’m still waiting for legitimate research that suggests this is an epidemic. That doesn’t make police brutality insignificant or something that we should ignore. But, claiming that it is a systemic problem is unfair to the large majority of faithful law enforcement officers. That is a lazy approach and it has helped create this toxic, divisive, and combative environment. If all parents taught their children to obey the law and respect police officers, violent encounters with law enforcement would plummet. If there is support for their claim, by all means let's roll up our sleeves and figure out how to address the problem.

    6. For those that continue to explain that their kneeling is not meant as disrespect to the flag, our nation, military service members, vets, or Fallen Heroes, I absolutely believe you. I honestly do. But, please understand that there are those that do feel that your actions are disrespectful. You simply cannot control how others feel. I’m not saying you shouldn’t kneel or that you should be fired for your actions (it’s up to the team owner to make a business decision and weigh taking PC approach against possible ramifications of upsetting the majority of your fan base… it really will be interesting to see if those that oppose the kneeling will be galvanized enough to turn their outrage into a movement that forces the NFL to adjust their calculus). And, yes, I recognize that “kneelers” have found active service members, veterans, and Gold Star families (https://www.army.mil/goldstar/) that have expressed that they are not offended by the “take a knee” protest. That is helpful to their cause and makes for a great sound bite, but let’s not confuse an isolated statement with overwhelming sentiment. To the contrary, I would place a large wager that these folks represent an extreme minority and that the large majority of vets, active military, and Gold Star families believe the “kneelers” are being disrespectful and hurtful. That doesn’t make them right – I just think it would be extremely short-sighted for the protesters to not recognize this high probability.

    7. If we could just channel the time and effort displayed by those protesting into something positive – i.e. actually accomplish something and tackle some of the real and almost unending issues that face our country today rather than mindlessly shouting and protesting – wow, would we be so much better off as a country.

    8. I think my favorite part of being at the lake this summer was avoiding / ignoring all of this nonsense!

    9. Man, social media sucks… I’m not sure why I included this… for some reason it seemed appropriate!

    10. Stepping off of soapbox now


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #18
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    Back in the good ol' days a 2006 22ve
    Well, thanks to Lindsey Vonn, politics has made its way to the US Olympics team. Girl, if I want to know which way you lean, ill tune you in on SNL, The View or Steven Colbert's show. Where I dont want to see your politics, if on the tax payer funded US Olympic team!

    Pretty sad when this story gets more lame-stream media covered then the US gymnastics Dr "digitally penetrating" underage female team members for like 15 years. I guys hating on trump, trumps all else?
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  4. #19
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    The US Olympic team receives no federal financial assistance.

  5. #20
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    My local and state tax money funded the building of, and covers their short fall, of the National Whitewater center as a training center for the US Kayak team.

    There is also a county aquatic center here that us used by many US Olympic swimmers.

    There may not be a line item in the US budget for the US olympic team, but Im willing to bet if one digs down deep enough, you will find there is more US tax dollar support then may believe. I have no issue with this and feel we should as a country, support our representing athletes. What I dont like, is to have your hand out for help at the same time you are making a political stance against the president. Can you imagine if an athlete leading up to the 2010 and 2014 winter olympics or the 2012 or 2016 summer games, made the same statements about the previous president? They would have booted off the team and given all kinds of negative labels. Vonn is labeled a hero and praised by the lamestream media.

    It would just be nice to not have everything and everyone not be a political activist. Just tired of the NFL being CNN and Vonn is going to do the same with the winter Olympics. I guarantee we will see some sort of anthem/US racist protest/statement by a couple US athletes. Someone is going to take a knee during the playing of the US Anthem and someone is going to raise the fist in solute to the black panther movement.

    Oh, as to Vonn, looks like Karma was watching her run on Saturday.
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  6. #1 Why are they taking a knee? That's what we should be talking about.

    #2 Why are we playing a national anthem at a sporting event to begin with when we don't at so many other events? Possibly because of all our military tax dollars paid to them.

    #3 The only lamestream media I have seen is on the right. But I call that propaganda media.
    Last edited by rcoates2; 12-12-2017 at 02:14 PM.

  7. #22
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    1) Crapperneck knew is job was in jeopardy and thought playing the race card over a hot-button topic would save said career. The rest jumped on the bandwagon without really knowing why. Personally, these guys have done nothing to address the issue they so proudly advocate against, but have now blackmailed the NFL to spend money on it.

    2) good question, but the anthem has been played prior to sporting events long before the military began its marketing and ad campaign. Do you feel the playing of the anthem is the issue? Does the playing of the anthem offend you?

    3) this one, you seam to hint at your political alignment. Sorry, but this thread is not about politics, but about getting politics out of MY sports. Any so called news outlet or journalist that clearly and proudly displays their political alignment in their news stories, is not journalism or a journalist, but rather a political talk show or commentator. This now includes ESPN. Most of their shows and personalities cant make it through the highlights without putting their political spin on things. They are all part of the lamestream media, regardless of which way they lean politically.
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  8. #2 No doesn’t offend me but why is it necessary? Uber Nationalism is one of the parts of fascism which is a road we’ve been heading down for a while.

    #3 Journalism is truth in reporting no matter what side you are on. When it’s not then it’s propaganda.

  9. #24
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    #3 Journalism is truth in reporting no matter what side you are on. When it’s not then it’s propaganda.
    True, but when one only sees the "propaganda" on one side, like the "right" as stated, reminds me of an old saying that a fish does not know he's in water.
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  10. #25
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    landlubber for now :(
    it's pretty sad what's going on in the country today and knealing during the national anthem is just one part of it. guess I believe that you should respect the country that gives you the rights you so flagrantly toss around but some do not see it that way.
    our society has really begun to evolve into a "what's in it for me" society that is sad....
    I try not to get sucked into the tv/news/media drama that is going on but another example has me really shaking my head just like the national anthem..

    the guy that was shot and killed last weekend as he dragged a cop around on the ground and the daughter crying on the news. respect the law and if treated wrongly or perceived to be treated wrongly, let a jury of your peers decide but if you choose to ignore an officers requests and drag him around, you get what you get... I got $5 that she has a lawyer engaged and lawsuit against the city forthcoming. sad..... and the news will continue to show her. I feel worse for the cop that is going to be dragged through the mud/media circus for doing his job and being placed in a compromising situation thanks to a guy that clearly wanted to do harm to him and no respect for a guy doing his job.

    jornalism is truth in reporting if you report all sides and not a single slanted side.
    2012 22ve.. sold..
    waiting for that next tige deal...

  11. Quote Originally Posted by sandm View Post
    it's pretty sad what's going on in the country today and knealing during the national anthem is just one part of it. guess I believe that you should respect the country that gives you the rights you so flagrantly toss around but some do not see it that way.
    our society has really begun to evolve into a "what's in it for me" society that is sad....
    I try not to get sucked into the tv/news/media drama that is going on but another example has me really shaking my head just like the national anthem..

    the guy that was shot and killed last weekend as he dragged a cop around on the ground and the daughter crying on the news. respect the law and if treated wrongly or perceived to be treated wrongly, let a jury of your peers decide but if you choose to ignore an officers requests and drag him around, you get what you get... I got $5 that she has a lawyer engaged and lawsuit against the city forthcoming. sad..... and the news will continue to show her. I feel worse for the cop that is going to be dragged through the mud/media circus for doing his job and being placed in a compromising situation thanks to a guy that clearly wanted to do harm to him and no respect for a guy doing his job.

    jornalism is truth in reporting if you report all sides and not a single slanted side.

    If you’re saying whites and people of color are treated the same then I suggest you pay more attention. Can’t remember the last time I saw a unarmed white person getting killed. In my 60+ years I have never seen the level of cops killing unarmed blacks over last 10 years and it’s disgusting. Thanks to cell phones we’ve far more documentation of these interactions. I was beginning to wonder if we would ever convict a cop but they finally did and that video was disgusting. I’ve never had to have a talk with my son about dealing with cops like blacks do. Us white folk need to understand our white privilege before we can fix this problem.

  12. Don’t worry I pay a lot of attention to both sides media or at least as long as I can before my head explodes. That’s why I talk about propaganda the way I do, it’s extremely obvious.

  13. #28
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    it’s extremely obvious.
    But only on the right, right? You've never experience a left leaning new outlet or propaganda from CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, Huffington Post, New York Times, etc?

    If you’re saying whites and people of color are treated the same then I suggest you pay more attention. Can’t remember the last time I saw a unarmed white person getting killed. In my 60+ years I have never seen the level of cops killing unarmed blacks over last 10 years and it’s disgusting. Thanks to cell phones we’ve far more documentation of these interactions. I was beginning to wonder if we would ever convict a cop but they finally did and that video was disgusting. I’ve never had to have a talk with my son about dealing with cops like blacks do. Us white folk need to understand our white privilege before we can fix this problem.
    Lets ignore the "news" for a moment. Please seek out the police involved shootings by race, age and gender, then come back and we will talk. While at it, look up the crime numbers based on race age and gender as a percentage of the overall US population. I think you will find a different world then the one the "news" portrays.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcoates2 View Post
    If you’re saying whites and people of color are treated the same then I suggest you pay more attention. Can’t remember the last time I saw a unarmed white person getting killed. In my 60+ years I have never seen the level of cops killing unarmed blacks over last 10 years and it’s disgusting. Thanks to cell phones we’ve far more documentation of these interactions. I was beginning to wonder if we would ever convict a cop but they finally did and that video was disgusting. I’ve never had to have a talk with my son about dealing with cops like blacks do. Us white folk need to understand our white privilege before we can fix this problem.
    You can’t be serious! Take your blinders off and look around. The reason you haven’t seen this in your +60 years is because at no time in history have people had such complete access to news. Between having thousands of TV channels and the vast empire that is social media available at the click of a button there is unprecedented access to information, be it true or not. The problem is the demand for information has developed into a race to be first and it no longer matters what the truth is, only that the info is there as quick as possible. We can retract a statement later. We used to have much more responsible journalism kept in check by the rivalry between outlets to post actual news, pertinent things that were founded in truth with facts checked and sources cited. The news paper or stations reputation was on the line. This isn’t the case anymore and it’s degraded and bastardized our media to the unrecognizable crap it is today.
    White privilege?! That’s hilarious!! Being a cop is a hard job and I don’t blame most of these guys one bit for reacting the way they do to some of these interactions. It’s not a white, black, brown , yellow, or purple thing it’s a respect thing. People aren’t raising their kids with any. Be respectful and interactions with cops typically go pretty easy, act a fool, run your mouth, posture up, guess who’s getting a boot in the ***?! Cops will beat and kill anyone that threatens their ability to get back to their family at the end of their shift. I’d do the same thing and put in that place I’m guessing so would you. You’re living in the past man. Not sure what trade you’re in but white males are the last to get a call for a job in my line of work. We are also the last to get scholarship offers and financial aid for college. How’s that fair? I guarantee there are far more poor white folk in this country than any other race. These days if you’re not a minority or a women than you’re sitting at the back of the bus. It’s been that way for a while man. Our country caters to “victims” these days because of all the entitlement and endless whining regardless of whether or not the cause is legitimate. Love those liberals. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

  15. You obviously don't understand your white privilege and I could go on forever but i'm not so I will end this now. It 's easy to see which side of the isle you're on because of the talking points I hear on your media all the time so the propaganda is definitely working. The big thing that you must understand is that the 1% is laughing at you all the way to the bank because you bought what they're selling. Name the last bill your party passed that helped regular people MORE than corporations and the rich? Good luck.
    Last edited by rcoates2; 12-13-2017 at 02:12 PM.

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