2004 GM vortec information?

[Ruune]

I was looking at GM's vortec marine applications site, and they've still got the specs for the 2003s up. For 2004, Tigé is offering vortech options including 2 5.7L's (315 and 335hp) and a 6.0L (375hp). I figured that since this is a Tigé-sponsored site, that this would be a place to look for the .pdf documents for the '04 Vortech engines. We're specifically ordering the 335hp 5.7L, and I figured that they could post the 2004 .pdf spec and owners manual docs in the downloads area. If anyone at Tigé or any of the administrators here are watching, could you look into this?
Thanks!

[Matt Garcia]

Sure, I will see what I can do. Thanks.

[Ruune]

awesome man... thanks! The Merc and PCM docs would be beneficial as well, although PCM already has their current specs on their website.

[Paublo]

The "GM Vortec" that Tige is offering in their '04 boats are being put together by Marine Power. GM sells the blocks to Merc, PCM, Indmar, Marine Power and others. I understand that the powerplants going to Tige may be an exclusive, for awhile at least.

For a little more info, try their website: http://www.marinepowerusa.com/

[Ruune]

um no... the marine power engine is the carbureted base engine. I went over this with the dealer. I know that GM sells their short blocks to Merc, PCM, marine power, volvo penta, and others. From what I've read GM has their own marine-prepped longblock to compete w/ merc and PCM.

[Paublo]

I could be wrong, but was told that Marine Power was shipping all of the engine models that Tige sells under the GM Vortec label. This includes carburated, MPFI, and the 6L. If you look at the engines themselves, they look like and have the features shown on Marine Power's website- like dual oil filter, top mounted starter, etc. GM has not gone into competition with all of the companies that they supply to.

[Ruune]

sorry... I came off as a prick in my last post. I didnt mean to sound like that. My apologies.

[Paublo]

No problem....it wasn't taken that way.

I have seen "GM Vortec" stickers on different mfgrs promo boats. It is a generic designation.
It is very confusing how GM builds the engine and sells it to everyone. They are finshed off by various mfgrs with the biggest difference being the plastic hood over the air intake. Granted they all put on their own water pumps, exhaust manifolds, and program the control module. But you see drastic differences in hp ratings. Indmar for example doesn't list any ratings, they leave it up to the boat mfgr to decide what hp to call it. And is there any real premium justified for a PCM?

[Ruune]

PCM actually makes a lot of the modules that companies like mercruiser put in... specifically the ECM in merc inboards. They also have a lot of premium features like huge water separators/ fuel filters. Still, its 6 in one hand and 1/2 dozen in the other...

[Domsz06]

i hate how no one has a base hp listing. I mean this one says it has this, that one says it has that, its so confusing!!

[Ruune]

they're all tuned differently... different timing maps, plus diff headers/manifolds.

oh yeah... I confirmed w/ my dealer. Paublo is right about marine power/vortec. After hearing about corrosion problems w/ marine power, I'm going w/ the 315 merc and synchrotech. I'm quite a bit more confident with mercruiser, and I know that 315 is a strong engine... I've driven 22v's with that powerplant w/ and w/o synchrotech. Should be fun!

[Paublo]

Do you have additonal information about the corosion issues with Marine Power? From what I have seen it looks like a good unit w/ some nice features such as top mounted starter, dual alt belts, dual oil filters, 3 yr warrantee, and higher hp.
The merc has the advantage of more dealers, but I always carry an extra pump impeller- which is the only real part that I could think of needing unexpectedly. My dealer should be able to take care of anything. The Merc has a 1 yr warr. on everything and 3 yr corosion.

[Ruune]

not sure about what the specifics are, as I believe that may be part of an non-disclosure type thing... from the way they were hinting at it. It was strongly suggested that I go with mercruiser.

[Shaz]

Originally posted by Ruune
I was looking at GM's vortec marine applications site, and they've still got the specs for the 2003s up. For 2004, Tigé is offering vortech options including 2 5.7L's (315 and 335hp) and a 6.0L (375hp).
Why would I have a 5.7L,325hp in my manual if I have a 335hp engine in my boat. Is it a misprint in my manual or is my engine not really a 335hp? :confused:

[OldSkier]

Re Vortec specs: Over on the MBO website, there has been lots of talk about folks wanting the "torque curves" from Malibu or Indmar.

Why? It seems that some of the optional upgrades for Indmar power plants that COST more, may offer more HP, but LESS torque.... or marginallky better torque. So, the folks are frustrated with not being able to see the actual torque curves for themselves.... to decide if holeshot and midrange "power" (= torque) in the lower priced motors are actually better than the higher priced "higher HP" upgrades.

Lots of HP sounds cool, but if it's only around at the high rpm's, it's only good for a few more mph at the top end... which most of us don't really care about.

NET: Are Tige owners interested in.... and getting access to the torque curves for the power plants avail for Tige boats ???

[Ruune]

absolutely. I cut through all the BS and ran some numbers, which is why I stuck w/ the MAG MPI. To me, it was a choice between the 6.0L and the 315 horse 5.7L. As it was too hard to make a direct comparison with the possible exception of the PCM Excalibur, which boasts 430ft-lbs- I couldnt get any numbers on the torque for comparison between the MAG MPI and the black scorpion or the Tigé/Vortech 5.7L. I thought about getting the PCM, but the price tag on that was pretty steep.

[Tige M.D.]

Horse power, torque bla, bla, bla.
Look guys, it's a numbers game. If you have 315hp then I have to have 325hp and so on...
All of these engines come out of the same door at GM, just get into different trucks. Yes, they do have different bolt on's but how much is 5-10hp gonna change a boats performance? NMMA requires a 10% + or - in advertised hp. GM advertises the 5.7 crate motor they sell to Indmar at 295hp. Pretty hard to bolt on 40hp with out a blower, turbo or nitrous. As for torque, I have yet to find someone at Merc to put a number in writing.
If I were to buy a Tige today it would have a vortec 335mpi (Marine Power) pushing it. Eddie(owner of Marine Power) and his son Walter will do whatever it takes to keep you happy with their motor package.
The corrosion problem stated earlier, I have yet to see.

[Ruune]

how come the PCM excalibur is rated at 435 ft-lbs of torque, vs the merc black scorpion 350 is rated at 365 ft-lbs?
http://www.pleasurecraft.com/57.html

http://www.mercurymarine.com/black_scorpion_-_330_hp

I'm assuming they've both got a 1.23:1 transmission, and are rated at the prop.

(the merc website appears to be having trouble right now, but I believe the torque rating is at the bottom of the page, under "specs.")

[Tige M.D.]

Mercury Marine rates everything at the prop. As far as I know they are the only ones that actually do this. From what I've heard this last fall at Mercury school they are about to change that. They want to sound more competetive.
The gear ratio would depend on the model of boat v-drive vs. direct drive.

[Tige M.D.]

I just looked at both of the links you provided and I am suprised to see PCM rating hp and torque at the prop. Too bad neither tells the power band. Gobs of Hp and torque at 4800rpm doesn't do use much good.
If I sound negative towards Merc and
PCM it's becauseI truely believe Marine Power is the all around better package. I personally would'nt put a Mercruiser in my boat if it was free. Too many problems on too many boats.

[Ruune]

something else I just noticed... the PCM is rated w/ a 1.23:1 transmission, and the merc is rated w/ a 1.0:1 tranny. I wonder if both are on a direct drive or V-drive, and if V-drive- what tranny is on there?

[OldSkier]

I think there's a bit of smoke and mirrors with the rating of torque at the prop AFTER going thru a 1.23:1 reduction gear. HP is simply a function of torque X RPM.

My bet is that the real engine torque is 435 ft-lbs divided by 1.23 = 354 ft-lbs. at the crank at motor rpm. This is more in line with the blackscorpion at 365 ft-lbs.

Regardless, I agree with Tige MD. You/we need to understand the torque through the ENTIRE motor RPM range to make an informed decision. AND, to compare apples to apples.... we can't add confusion with comparing different gear ratios.

But.....the mfg's just won't release that kind of info to the marine world like they do in the auto world. Too bad. So, we have to sift through the confusion...

[blr]

ruune - i sure hope the corrosion thing is a rumor or a single incident that got on the grape vine highway. based on my dealers comments which were identical to Tige MD's, I went with the 6.0 375HP Marine power. my dealer also said that they drove both the PCM and MP side by side and the only way that they could tell the difference is by pulling up the "lid" and looking at them. i guess i'll know in a couple of weeks how it perfroms, but time will only tell me on the corrosion and reliability. i'll keep you posted. btw- i too thought the pcm price was quite steep for ?????