Automatic Ballast for a 2100v Ltd [Archive]

dogbert

06-01-2008, 01:58 PM

First off, I want to thank you guys for getting me inspired to do this and then answering all of my questions. I also wanted to thank my son Ryan for coming up with the absolutely brilliant idea for my below-the-waterline thru hulls.

I went with a Fly High integrated bow sack up front and two Fly High V-Drive sacks for each storage locker. The pumps are the JABSCO Ballast puppies and I have 3 of them. Aside from the hose clamps, wire, wire connects, screws and 1" ID hose (see pictures in subsequent posts, here's the parts list

3 x 1" Attwood Stainless Thru Hull

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/woeimages/Plumbing/15097.jpg

3 x 1" Groco Bronze Thru Hull

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/woeimages/Plumbing/629.jpg

3 x 1" 90 degree bronze elbow

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/woeimages/00001460.jpg

3 x 1" brass ball valves

http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE1-964258reg.jpg

3 x Nylon 1" NPT to 1" hose adapter

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImage/2d1fc687-74c1-4f2a-86b4-b81153236996_100.jpg

3 x JABSCO Ballast Puppies

http://www.jabsco.com/images/resized/18220_ballast_pumpw180.jpg

1 Fly High Integrated Bow Sac

http://www.m2sports.com/assets/images/dt_fly_high_integrated_bow_sac_w711_thumbnail.jpg

1 Pair Fly High V-Drive Sac

http://www.m2sports.com/assets/images/fatv_drive_sac_w701_thumbnail.jpg

6 Fly High Quick Disconnect Fittings.

http://www.m2sports.com/assets/images/dt_fly_high_pro_x_fitting_w743_thumbnail.jpg

5 Fly High Quick Disconnect Elbow Hose fittings

http://www.m2sports.com/assets/images/dt_fly_high_pro_x_fitting_w746_thumbnail.jpg

1 Fly High Quick Disconnect Hose fitting

http://www.m2sports.com/assets/images/dt_fly_high_pro_x_fitting_w741_thumbnail.jpg

dogbert

06-01-2008, 02:07 PM

You'll also need 1 tube of 3M 5200 sealant and some pipe joint compound.

You'll need to drill 6 holes in your boat, 3 in the transom and 3 in the sides of the hull above the waterline for the vents. You'll want to drill all six holes at the same time and secure the thru hulls at the same time because the 3M 5200 sets up and once you open the tube, you might as well throw it away (it's nasty stuff so have plenty of rags you're willing to part with to clean up the excess.

Here's where the thru holes for the transom are located. Keep in mind that my swim platform is right at the waterline empty, so these are definitely submerged while the boat is at rest.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8912.jpg

I located a vent in each V-Drive locker, pretty much at the rear of the locker so it would be out of the way.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8917.jpg
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8918.jpg

Then, I put the vent for the bow sac just in front of the fuel vent because I was able to get a clear line from the bow sack up to it without many kinks. You can't really get a thru hull vent in the bow area because there's not much room up there and, if you read my other thread about my cushions, I have deck screws poking through the seatbacks up there as well (not a good combination with water hoses).

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8925.jpg

I found the transom on my boat was a total of 1" thick, 1/2" fiberglass and 1/2" marine grade plywood encased in fiberglass. The side hull was almost a 1/2" thick. I feel pretty good that my boat is built like a tank. That's probably why it is so heavy.

dogbert

06-01-2008, 02:19 PM

Now onto the interior. The fittings in the transom were a real pain. You actually want to put the elbows on before you secure the thru hulls with the 3M 5200 sealant so you can get the elbow positioned just the way you want it. I put mine on an approximate 45 upward angle.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8923.jpg

You'll need the pipe thread compound for the brass/bronze fittings and teflon tape for the nylon hose adapter. This part of the job takes 2 people and I had to buy a special plumbers tool for that would allow me to secure the thru hull from the outside while we were tightening it. The transom thru hulls does take 2 people, so you'll need a buddy to complete this part of the job.

After the elbow, I connected the 3 ball valves and then the nylon hose adapter.

I put 2 of the ballast puppies in the V-Drive lockers in the back and connected the hoses from the transom. You'll notice I also used 2 90 degree hose adapters to get around the corner.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8915.jpg
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8920.jpg

I located the ballast puppy for the bow sack in the front of the V-Drive locker (sorry, no pics) and ran the hose for it up on the side of this locker.

Here's the rest of the pics I have of the install.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8926.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8927.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8928.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8916.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8921.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/IMG_8922.jpg

dogbert

06-01-2008, 02:20 PM

BTW, the duct tape is not because that fitting leaks, but rather to protect the bow sac from getting punctured by the hose clamp.

dogbert

06-01-2008, 04:23 PM

Pray for me, I'm going to the lake to see if my boat still floats :eek:

NICKYPOO

06-01-2008, 04:47 PM

Right on Dog! Hope she floats.

xpjim1

06-01-2008, 05:59 PM

Looking good dog. Hope it all works good for you

dogbert

06-01-2008, 10:27 PM

Well, got to the lake. Nothing leaks, but my impeller is toast. I sucked up something on my last trip out. It did clear itself out, but it seems like the impeller is no longer with me. :(

da.bell

06-01-2008, 11:56 PM

That sucks but at least you were able to test the ballast system. ;)

Carter13

06-02-2008, 12:16 AM

Well done Mr Bert,

Looks great and also awesome idea about covering the clamps with duct tape. I'm sure you are going to throw a nice wake with that setup.

samw

06-02-2008, 02:36 AM

Nice right up....
Thanks

NICKYPOO

06-02-2008, 04:30 AM

Well, got to the lake. Nothing leaks, but my impeller is toast. I sucked up something on my last trip out. It did clear itself out, but it seems like the impeller is no longer with me. :(

Sweet!

Doh!

dogbert

06-16-2008, 05:28 PM

Well, so far so good. I get no leakage through the ballast puppies. I do need to order some replacement impellers for them just so I have them on hand when they do finally go.

I did discover that my quick connects in the bow area leak where the fitting connects, so I may have to rethink that a bit or add a second vent for the starboard side to take the pressure off the port side vent.

It's so easy to set up for surfing. I may have to look into a custom sack for the port side that holds more. I have plenty of room under the ski locker there because we never store our skis. I do have a long ski locker sack from LaunchPad...I wonder if I can plumb it to work with my fly high sack.

All I have to say is why the heck did I wait so long to do this? :confused: I can fill the rears in 3 minutes and the front in a little over 5.

G-MONEY

06-16-2008, 05:52 PM

NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jason B

06-16-2008, 06:10 PM

Nice write up!

SPBFAN

06-19-2008, 10:03 PM

Nice job Dogebert call me on the impellers.

dogbert

06-20-2008, 04:51 AM

Nice job Dogebert call me on the impellers.

Will do. So far so good. We were out again surfing. It was soooo cool just to switch ballast in about 3 minutes. We had about half the crew riding goofy and half riding regular. We switched back and forth a few times.

Thanks again for getting me motivated to do this myself! :ro:

KonaKing

06-20-2008, 11:53 AM

:ro: :ro: :ro: :ro:

eks

06-21-2008, 05:25 PM

Great job! I like how you did your intake.

samw

07-08-2008, 12:57 AM

Dog,
Sometime when your out and you have the ballast filled could you take a pics?? I would like to see how it fills the space.
When filled what do you do with all your stuff, cooler, towels, etc.

Thanks

Thomas

07-09-2008, 02:30 AM

about that leak you detected in the bow I heard from one of the guys at wakeside to use pvc apoxy I'm in the works of putting a system in my 21v throught the raw water hose anybody had any luck with this

dogbert

07-09-2008, 04:07 AM

I tried this and was not happy with it. I had issues with air getting in the water intake to my impeller. It caused my temp gauge to do weird things.

You're better off doing what I did. It's really not that hard and you have plenty of room back there. You will need a buddy to help, tho.

jwanck11

07-09-2008, 02:00 PM

Wow. Cool! How long did the project take??

SPBFAN

07-09-2008, 04:13 PM

Wow. Cool! How long did the project take??

I just sent you a PM about this.

dogbert

07-09-2008, 05:50 PM

All-in-all, it probably took me twice as long as it should have, but I was being anal about having all the right stuff on hand. Way too many trips to Home Depot and the aborted raw-water intake option.

I would say you could get it all done in a weekend pretty easily. There's a fair amount of dry time for the thru hulls. I used the fast drying 3M 5200 adhesive, but it still takes 24-48 hrs to cure. If you have a helper, it goes much faster. The installation of the fittings was relatively easy, it took longer to wire everything and run all the hoses.

My situation was somewhat unique because my boat couldn't handle the 2" intake SPBFAN and others have used, there just wasn't room for it anywhere. :ot: That reminds me, I have a 2" thru hull, scoop and shut-off valve that I never used if anyone needs one. These parts are kinda expensive, so I'll just include the shipping to wherever you are in the price.

The vents were easy to install and didn't take a lot of thought. The bigger dilemma for me was the intake. The idea for the 1" intakes came from my son Ryan. SPBFAN validated that it would work when he told me that Mastercraft used the Ballast Puppies in their boats and had individual intakes in the bottom of their hulls.

The system is really nice and I've not experienced the leakage the others reported...perhaps because there's no vacuum created at the transom like there would be with the scoop. It fills and empties really fast and I can dump ballast while underway. I do have to be either in lock forward or idle to fill, but that's not a big issue.

As for the other issues mentioned in other threads about not knowing when you're empty, it's pretty easy to tell by the bubbles coming up from the transom when I'm just floating.

Coach

07-09-2008, 06:31 PM

I used the fast drying 3M 5200 adhesive, but it still takes 24-48 hrs to cure. .

Did you use he 5200 on the vent though hulls as well or just a silicon sealant?

dogbert

07-09-2008, 08:08 PM

Did you use he 5200 on the vent though hulls as well or just a silicon sealant?

Yes. I suppose silicone would have been enough, but my rear vents are often bellow the waterline when we're surfing as we have water flowing over the rubrail :eek:

rogersbm82

07-10-2008, 11:43 AM

Nice thread and nice job on the install. Do you have any pictures of the switches you used for the pumps?

dogbert

07-10-2008, 11:47 AM

Ooops, I'll try and get some today.

Coach

07-10-2008, 01:31 PM

Yes. I suppose silicone would have been enough, but my rear vents are often bellow the waterline when we're surfing as we have water flowing over the rubrail :eek:

Good Point! Didn't think of that. 5200 it is. Did you have to put a check valve on your bilge pump line? Whould it even matter?

dogbert

07-10-2008, 01:40 PM

Good Point! Didn't think of that. 5200 it is. Did you have to put a check valve on your bilge pump line? Whould it even matter?

I haven't, but I'm thinking about it. What I'm seriously thinking about doing is installing a larger thru hull and adding a second bilge pump that's mounted at the lowest point in the bilge (right by the V-Drive). If I do this, I will need to install check valves on each of the bilge pump lines. I suppose I could always just tap into my vent line for my starboard rear sac and put a check valve on it.

More stuff to think about...

Coach

07-10-2008, 01:43 PM

I haven't, but I'm thinking about it. What I'm seriously thinking about doing is installing a larger thru hull and adding a second bilge pump that's mounted at the lowest point in the bilge (right by the V-Drive). If I do this, I will need to install check valves on each of the bilge pump lines. I suppose I could always just tap into my vent line for my starboard rear sac and put a check valve on it.

More stuff to think about...

That is a great idea! I notice the water is always near the middle of the boat and when I take the boat out at the ramp there is a water to drain (esp if I take a roller over the front).

dogbert

07-10-2008, 02:24 PM

My stock bilge pump was actually where I was planning on putting a second one, but I had them move it because we take on so much water while surfing that I wanted it near the back of the boat so it would drain more frequently while surfing.

jake's02-22i

07-23-2008, 04:03 AM

dogbert were you able to get some more pictures?

dogbert

07-23-2008, 11:29 AM

dogbert were you able to get some more pictures?

Not yet.

TigeDuner

08-28-2008, 09:03 PM

Nice job on the install. Somehow I missed this entire project. On mine, I had a few leaks on the sac fittings and used the 3M 5200 and have now more leaks. I liked that idea better than using PVC glue.
I like the three drains in the hull idea, but it did look tough to install.
Again, nice job.

dogbert

08-28-2008, 09:12 PM

I liked that idea better than using PVC glue.
I like the three drains in the hull idea, but it did look tough to install.
Again, nice job.

It was actually easier than doing it through the bottom of the hull. After a season of use, I still have very little leakage, so I'm very happy. During this off-season, I plan to add one more vent for the front V-Drive sack on the starboard side (I have one for the port). This will allow the air built up on that side to drain more easily.

I would think plumber's putty or teflon tape would also work for the fly high drains.

TigeDuner

08-28-2008, 09:58 PM

I have one vent in the front V sac and the pump sucks a vaccuum on the entire sac due to the check valve in the vent line.

I tried teflon take with no luck. Rival uses glue, but I wanted the flexibility to remove it later. The 3M stuff worked great.

I did not notice any air in the front sac, but then my fill is in the middle so it flows both ways and sucks from both ends.

As far as hull leakage, I must be lucky because all I have in the well is dust.

Bottom line, the systems work great.

rustydust

12-03-2009, 06:21 PM

chpthril

12-03-2009, 07:14 PM

Amazing job Dogbert, you boat looks awesome. I just got my boat and it is pretty much bare right now and I am looking to put a stereo system and ballast in. I have a couple of questions on your systme.

In the pics I see the vent hose connected at the top of the bags but where is the pump hose? Were they just not connected in the pic?

Why could you not use the 2" thru on your boat? I have a 2000 would this be the same for me?

I see you have a dual batter switch, where do you store your other battery?

Where did you mount the pump switches?

About how much would I expect to fork out for a system like this?

Really awesome job. Looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me.

On many of my installs, i've used a single pickup and common manifold to feed the pumps. it's very effective as wells a single pickups are. It really comes down to each individual boat model and layout. Some boats have plenty of room for a single pickup, some it's easier to build with individual pickups for each sac. The diff between going through the transom and through the hull is the ability to fill on the fly. Once the boat is under way, there very little, if any water on the transom. This is really about personal preference, and not about one method being better then the other. For some people, it's not a big deal to wait and fill when they hit their riding spot and come off plan. For others, they want to be loaded up and ready to go when they get there. From my experience, a 1-1/4" thru-hull will supply 3 pumps just fine. 2" bronze is pretty $$$.

PM sent. Welcome to the Tige forum.

dogbert

12-04-2009, 03:05 AM

Amazing job Dogbert, you boat looks awesome. I just got my boat and it is pretty much bare right now and I am looking to put a stereo system and ballast in. I have a couple of questions on your systme.

In the pics I see the vent hose connected at the top of the bags but where is the pump hose? Were they just not connected in the pic?

Why could you not use the 2" thru on your boat? I have a 2000 would this be the same for me?

I see you have a dual batter switch, where do you store your other battery?

Where did you mount the pump switches?

About how much would I expect to fork out for a system like this?

Really awesome job. Looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me.

There's no room for a 2" thru hull so I had to go with 3 1" thru hulls thru the transom. The newer boats have more room to work with. The hoses are there, they are just coming from backs of the bags. The 2nd battery is on the opposite side of the primary battery. I had to move the TAPS reservoir to make it work. The pump switches are just below the Throttle by the driver's seat.

PM me if you have questions. Installing a system in a 21v is a bit different than the newer V-Drive because it's a much shallower boat.

dogbert

08-10-2010, 03:06 AM

Someone requested pictures of my switch placement. Here you go:

laserfish

08-10-2010, 03:45 PM

dogbert

08-11-2010, 11:26 PM

Thanks for the pics and write up. We just started surfing this summer so I Hope this is our winter project. Sure helps to follow someone who has already done it. Anything you would do differently now that you have used it for a while?

Actually, no. We did get to thinking about adding on to this:

connect another ballast bag to the front of the one in the port V-Drive locker to counterbalance the driver's weight when we don't have a lot of peeps in the boat
add another pump that does nothing but move water between the bags in the V-Drive lockers (makes switching surf sides go faster)

lohe

08-11-2010, 11:32 PM

on my to do list for the winter...

dogbert

08-14-2010, 09:01 PM

Here's a couple of shots of what the wake looks like. Just me and one other kid riding in the boat. It's big enough to get Ryan across the wake and into the flats at 75'. We're riding at 22.5 Mph.

Who says an older Tige can't throw a decent wake ;)

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/boatpics/IMG_9316.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee313/dogberttx/boatpics/IMG_9341.jpg