Kicker Amps on Wetsounds?

[rensink]

Anybody know how the kickers power 4 wetsounds? Did some searching but couldn't find anthing. Wondering if we'll have to change out amps.

[chpthril]

Anybody know how the kickers power 4 wetsounds? Did some searching but couldn't find anthing. Wondering if we'll have to change out amps.

Nothing wrong with Kicker amps, its about matching the amp out put to the speakers rated RMS.

What Kicker amp do you have? My guess is that you have the factory installed ZX350.4?

If so, you are trickling a mere 45 watts per speaker to 4 Wet Sounds that would be happy seeing, if my memory serves my right, about 180 watts.

Kicker makes a couple of amps that would throw plenty of juice at W/S's, just not what Tige has chosen to use @ this time. :02:

[Ks]

I don't want to hijack but are you saying the kicker amp is only giving 45 RMS to the interior speakers or to the tower speakers? what about the sub?

I have the factory kicker amp for the interior stuff and the sub and a dealer installed Alpine PDX4X100 running the 4 tower speakers.

I know the wet sounds/ and the focal in the samson cans are good, but I don't think i have enough power going to the sub and the interior stuff. am I right?

Would performance be improved dramatically if I added: ( since I already have one PDX I want to stay with Alpine)

the Alpine PDX 600X1 sub amp and another PDX 4X100 or 150 to run either the tower or the interior? what would be better for each? 150X4 or 100X4

Is there anying else I would have to upgrade or add to make the system pound hard?

[chpthril]

I don't want to hijack but are you saying the kicker amp is only giving 45 RMS to the interior speakers or to the tower speakers? what about the sub?

I have the factory kicker amp for the interior stuff and the sub and a dealer installed Alpine PDX4X100 running the 4 tower speakers.

I know the wet sounds/ and the focal in the samson cans are good, but I don't think i have enough power going to the sub and the interior stuff. am I right?

Would performance be improved dramatically if I added: ( since I already have one PDX I want to stay with Alpine)

the Alpine PDX 600X1 sub amp and another PDX 4X100 or 150 to run either the tower or the interior? what would be better for each? 150X4 or 100X4

Is there anything else I would have to upgrade or add to make the system pound hard?

I just assumed he was asking about tower speakers.

This is all hypothetical since I'm speculating on what components are installed.

Tige typical uses the Zx700.5 for the cabin spks and sub. As far as the W/S sub, I dont know if Tige is offering both the 10" and 12", but I installed a complete set up in a 20V for my dealer, and Tige sent the 10". If wired at 2ohm, the sub and amp are a great match IMO. The W/S cabin speakers could handle a little power based on specs, but I put 6 in the 20v with that amp and it was insanely loud. A whole lot louder then I typically like it so I tend to fade the cabin down and throw most of the volume out of the tower.

If you guys would post exactly what components you have, I'm sure somebody that knows far more then me will chime in with the answer you are looking for. :02:

*EDIT* I double checked and the W/S Pro 60's are rated @ 150rms, not 180 that I posted early.

[philwsailz]

CHP is right. Give us the exact details, and whether or not you are talking tower or interior. I know Kicker and Wet Sounds are both well represented on the forum, and between everyone I have no doubt we can get you dialed in.

Phil

[wetsounds1]

Correct, PRO 60's can take 150 watts RMS. They are using the 350.4 which is rated at 60x4 at 4 ohms.(at 14.4volts so chpthril is probably right at 12.5 volts)

Tige is using our 10 inch subwoofer only. Not offering the 12 inch.

So for the inboat speakers and 10 inch sub, the 5 ch has good power. For the tower speakers, they are getting less than they can handle but good power for most of the consumers looking at a Tige and a great stereo system.

Can our speakers take more power. YES. It is kinda like the ballast option. Is the stock ballast option good enough for a lot of consumers. Yes. Is there a select group of people that would prefer to get more out of their boats wake. Yes and they will add more weight on their end. Same goes with the amplifiers.

The system sounds great overall and is balanced in sound. Works great for those consumers and we have had many dealers call us just to tell us how blown away they were at this system and they are proud to say that Tige has the best sounding factory system out of any boat company. So no worries there, the system rocks:ro:

Now, for the hardcore stereo guys on here and those that like to tweak and go to the extreme. You can choose to up the output with some more power on the amp side. For instance Ks, If I was doing your system and wanted to get the most out of it and are using the pdx amps. I would think the 4.100 is too small for the towers. I would put that on the in-boats, and put a 4.150 on the towers and the 600.1 on the sub. Or another easy option for rensink would be to keep it as is from the factory, and add one more 350.4 and put both of them in 2 ch mode on the towers getting 175x2 per pair! Remember that more amps, means more current draw and more wiring etc...there are a lot of things to consider on a production side.

Just remember, for those who have seen my RZ4 and my truck. I don't do anything small. And overkill is the name of the game on everything.

But from an overall consumer end, finding a balance is the best option. Which is what the system has. Great sound and great balance.

Tim
Wet Sounds

[philwsailz]

Correct, PRO 60's can take 150 watts RMS. They are using the 350.4 which is rated at 60x4 at 4 ohms.(at 14.4volts so chpthril is probably right at 12.5 volts)

Tige is using our 10 inch subwoofer only. Not offering the 12 inch.

So for the inboat speakers and 10 inch sub, the 5 ch has good power. For the tower speakers, they are getting less than they can handle but good power for most of the consumers looking at a Tige and a great stereo system.

Can our speakers take more power. YES. It is kinda like the ballast option. Is the stock ballast option good enough for a lot of consumers. Yes. Is there a select group of people that would prefer to get more out of their boats wake. Yes and they will add more weight on their end. Same goes with the amplifiers.

The system sounds great overall and is balanced in sound. Works great for those consumers and we have had many dealers call us just to tell us how blown away they were at this system and they are proud to say that Tige has the best sounding factory system out of any boat company. So no worries there, the system rocks:ro:

Now, for the hardcore stereo guys on here and those that like to tweak and go to the extreme. You can choose to up the output with some more power on the amp side. For instance Ks, If I was doing your system and wanted to get the most out of it and are using the pdx amps. I would think the 4.100 is too small for the towers. I would put that on the in-boats, and put a 4.150 on the towers and the 600.1 on the sub. Or another easy option for rensink would be to keep it as is from the factory, and add one more 350.4 and put both of them in 2 ch mode on the towers getting 175x2 per pair! Remember that more amps, means more current draw and more wiring etc...there are a lot of things to consider on a production side.

Just remember, for those who have seen my RZ4 and my truck. I don't do anything small. And overkill is the name of the game on everything.

But from an overall consumer end, finding a balance is the best option. Which is what the system has. Great sound and great balance.

Tim
Wet Sounds

Tim brings a lot a good points up. I agree with his comments too regarding the stock system, and its relevance to the average consumer.

The Alpine amplification being discussed is appropriate from a power standpoint; the key to mazimizing everyting is to have the REAL RMS power output of any and all amps be AT LEAST equal to the stated power handling of the speaker(s), and a tiny bit more is not a bad thing.

From a Kicker standpoint, the ZX 450.2 is truly the best Kicker amplifier to get everything you can out of a pair of Pro 60's. It is extremely comfortable with the 4-ohm load, and will deliver 150 watts per channel into the 4-ohm loads all day very comfortably. It will do it easier and will last longer than when compared to a loaded down 4-channel amplifier from any manufacturer.

Beyond that max output is attained by very carefully maximizing every setting; crossovers, gains, etc. to truly massage the "fit" between speaker and amp. For example, (and not to step on your toes Tim if you would suggest otherwise) your tower speaker/amplifier system will be louder, more efficient and less prone to failure with the crosover on that amp section set to "HI-PASS" in order to limit low frequencies that the tower speakers are probably not designed to reproduce.

[wetsounds1]

Yup agree, there is no reason to have sub bass coming from a tower system when you are trying to reach the rider. A low frequency wave is a longer wave and will not reach the rider at the same time as a high frequency wave. We usually recommend running the PRO 60's at 80HZ and up. Anything more than that and you then limit the mid bass. Now on the 80's you can drop that a bit as they can handle it because of larger drivers. The 485 can play full range all day long if you set the system up properly and have the right amp power. Most however run all at 80HZ as well. When designing our speakers, we test and design at full range and build the internal crossovers from that stand point. Although we are using reference grade amplification. So power is never a problem. With the proper power, they can play full range all day long with no worries. But as mentioned for the rider it is not as neccesary, so most people prefer to squeeze a bit more out of them so a high pass at 80HZ is usually the safe way to go

[Moki]

This is why I love this forum because we have such knowledgeable members (Chpthrl /Spharis,and many others) and industry experts (WetSounds1 and Philwsailz) willing to help. It has made a difference on my boat and has helped me to maximize the value of my Tige boat.:ro:

[Ruune]

Yup agree, there is no reason to have sub bass coming from a tower system when you are trying to reach the rider.

...besides, I could hear your bass up in camperland at waketoberfest. Sick stuff! Any idea when the new 12"ers will be available? I also dug those cadence amps, but would like to have some matching wetsounds amps w/ the maltese cross on them. :ro: :ro: ;)

[wetsounds1]

Oh yeah :) New spl 12's the XS-XXX will be shipping end of Jan. The boys at Hydrotunes are working on the boat now. Changing it up a bit. Adding one more 12!:ro: It had 2 of the XS-XXX in it at waketoberfest, going to have 3 now. Plus I am pulling all the amps. Will have twice as much power in it now. Double the power on the tower, inboats and subs. Got some stuff working on the amp side. They are going to be very cool. I like the clean under stated look on the amps so won't have any cross or anything, sorry. I am leaving that as the signature on our PRO Series tower products and XS series in boats. Not sure on the amps yet. Still tweaking.

[Moki]

I have two 485s driven by an Eclipse XA4000 that delivers 350 watts RMS and 400 watts peak power. I have four XS-650 in the boat and a TC Sounds 12" subwoofer driven by an Eclipse XA5000 50 watts are going to the XS-650 and 300 watts are going to the TC Sounds sub.

Any recommendations on how my system should be set up?

[rensink]

Yes I was talking about the tower speakers. So I will just more then likely have to mess with my amps?

P.S. School sucks lol

[kscales]

[QUOTE=wetsounds1;108466Now, for the hardcore stereo guys on here and those that like to tweak and go to the extreme. You can choose to up the output with some more power on the amp side. For instance Ks, If I was doing your system and wanted to get the most out of it and are using the pdx amps. I would think the 4.100 is too small for the towers. I would put that on the in-boats, and put a 4.150 on the towers and the 600.1 on the sub. Remember that more amps, means more current draw and more wiring etc...there are a lot of things to consider on a production side.
Tim
Wet Sounds[/QUOTE]

Thanks Tim for the feedback. Phil as well:)

Can you post pics of your set up? we have all heard about it but I don't think pics have ever been posted:)

As for my system, you are suggesting buy the Alpine 600X1 for the 10' WS sub that comes stock in the boat and buy a PDX 150X4 to run the tower speakers and switch the PDX 100X4 to the cabin stuff is that correct?

As for upgrading the wires what should I do, and do I need to do this? I think the boat comes with 8ga and the Alpine say 4ga, what do you use? and what does the bigger wire really do? Also, what RCA's do you use? again I don't think the ones in the boat are anything special, would this be a good upgrade?

Is anything in the boat running off the deck power or is it all powered by the amp?

I am not really understanding the 2 vs 4 ohms and parallel vs series for speakers?

What are the cabin speakers running and how are they set up from the factory?

You mentioned the sub has a built in CrossX do all the speakers in your line have this?

The funny thing is, like 15 years ago I was into car stereos, I should know this but I cant remember all of it. ( old age LOL)

Thanks for your help.

[philwsailz]

Yes I was talking about the tower speakers. So I will just more then likely have to mess with my amps?

P.S. School sucks lol

Yeah, you have an opportunity to replace the amplification that came in the boat stock with something more in-line with the power handling capabilities of the speakers. Let the Wet Sounds guys make a solid recommendation based on their experience with their speakers. I trust them... :ro:


BTW, Tim...

For a given set of envorinmental situations, temp, humudity, elevation etc. the speed of sound is constant. Sound leaving any point source, regardless of frequency will arrive at any other point with all frequencies at the same time.

Now the fun... Amplitude, and therefore acoustic power dissipates differently and as a function of frequency, with the higher frequencies being attenuated more quickly as distance increases. Also, the higher the frequencies by nature have shorter wavelengths, and therefore are more easily absorbed by any non-reflective materials and/or walls or boundaries. That is why we can often hear the car next to us kicking the subs at a stop light, but more often than not we do not sense the HF in the same manner.

[Moki]

I have two 485s driven by an Eclipse XA4000 that delivers 350 watts RMS and 400 watts peak power. I have four XS-650 in the boat and a TC Sounds 12" subwoofer driven by an Eclipse XA5000 50 watts are going to the XS-650 and 300 watts are going to the TC Sounds sub.

Any recommendations on how my system should be set up?


I guess when your already a customer and a product advocate, you don't get a response?:confused:

[philwsailz]

I guess when your already a customer and a product advocate, you don't get a response?:confused:

huh?

BTW, you quoted yourself... :D

[Moki]

huh?

BTW, you quoted yourself... :D

Yeah, I asked Tim a question...no response

[philwsailz]

I have two 485s driven by an Eclipse XA4000 that delivers 350 watts RMS and 400 watts peak power. I have four XS-650 in the boat and a TC Sounds 12" subwoofer driven by an Eclipse XA5000 50 watts are going to the XS-650 and 300 watts are going to the TC Sounds sub.

Any recommendations on how my system should be set up?

In general, take advantage of all crossover function available on your amp(s).

For sub sections, turn the crossover to lo-pass and start with an initial setting of 80 Hz. If it is too boomy, lower the frequency. If not loud enough, try turning the crossover to a higher frequency. If the subwoofer amp section has a hi-pass filter turn it on to remove any frequencies too low for the sub to recreate. Use bass boost sparingly; it is just a power sponge.

For the boat speakers, set the crossover setting to hi-pass and set the crossover to a frequency range starting at 80 Hz. You might go as low as 60 or as high as 100, but somewhere in there you will find a balance.

Tower speakers shoudl always be set to hi-pass in my opinion, and the frequency is very dependent upon the type of speaker up there. Coaxes in cans may be set up with the hi-pass crossover as high as 150 Hz. The definitely will not go very loud full-range without the mid cones generrating a lot of distortion. Tim's stuff can handle lower frequencies, as the midbass driver Q's are higher, and the suspension is stiffer, preventing flatulant over-excursion. Plus they are designed to just plain handle more power.

There is no practical reason to run the full range section of a tower speaker setup in full range in my opinion; it takes a lot of cone area, a lot of enclosure volume, and a lot of amplitude to make real bass; all three things are typically missing from a tower speaker setup. Consider 50 Hz as a practical minimum for just about any tower speaker.

If by chance you have any sort of compression options, consider using them. Compression is not musical per se, but in all of my years in live sound reinforcement, I never toured a band without a good compressor in my front-of house rack, (not to be a name dropper unless necessary, but I have worked with acts you all know of, and know well). A compression ratio of 1.4 to 1 is hard to discern, and will do wonders for bringing quiet sounds up and allowing the system to "appear" as much as 3 dB more efficient. Compression is tricky though, as you need to re-gain the post to the same peak amplitude as the input signal, (blah blah blah, I know)...

[wetsounds1]

Phil,

True in theory but in real world applications and taking into account the way our ears work and “perception” of given frequencies, the results are different. Perception plays into effect as humans have a tendency to amplify higher frequencies. These higher frequencies “seem” louder to us. As two sounds leaving a speaker at the same level (intensity) but different frequencies such as high frequencies and low frequencies will not be perceived the same. So perception plays into account. Thus we will “hear” or perceive” the higher frequencies as louder. Not taking into account other factors like reflection, humidity, age etc…

Kscales,

We are re doing the install now, that is why I have not shown any pics as it has all been a temporary set up. We are getting it dialed in for some upcoming shows. I will upload pics when we get it finished.

I am not sure what you have in the boat now. What is in the boat now? As you only mentioned the pdx amps so I assumed you have all of those already. If the boat comes with the Kicker 5 ch amp. You would be fine leaving that in the boat on the inboat speakers and 10 inch subwoofer. And just using the pdx4.150 on the towers. If you have the pdx 4.100 on the towers now. And are happy with the output, then no worries. Listen to the system first and see how it works for you. As everyone has different objectives when it comes to their system.

As for the power wire. If you are sticking with the factory set up, the 8 ga is fine. If you are adding another amp. You will want to run separate power and ground as you do not want to have 2 amps running off a single 8 ga. You can also add another run of 8 ga to the same amp, thus giving you a 4 ga run if your amp needs the current. Proper current to the amplifier is key as they amp will be pulling current from the battery. Larger ga wire will handle more current. My system is quite different as I mentioned, I don’t do anything small so my entire system is 0 ga all the way into each amp using 0 to 4 ga adapters. It is overkill. But then again, this is our demo boat so it is a bit different. I also have 8 batteries in the boat, onboard chargers/power supplies and a 150 amp alternator on the way. So don’t look at how mine is because it is overkill. But I have around 7000 watts in the boat and it is designed to be able to play for long periods of time. So I have a lot of juice.

As for RCA’s. There are many different opinions on the quality of sound with any given wire. That is why you see rca’s that cost thousands of dollars and speaker wire that is $10 a foot. I will not get into that whole discussion. But I will say as long as you are using decent wire which the factory is. And you do not have any noise like engine noise. You will be fine with the RCA’s. If you have the funds to spend on higher quality ones, you can.

The head unit is not running any speakers on the factory set up. All the inboat speakers and 10 inch sub are being run off the 5 ch amp.

Let me see if I can explain ohms and impedance and series and parallel easily. The impedance of a speaker is designated as ohms. Ohms is a unit of measure. Amplifiers are designed to operate into some sort of a load. For instance one amplifier will produce 50 watts at 4 ohms. Meaning it will send 50 watts to a single 4 ohm speaker. Most car audio amps today will double the output power when the load is dropped if the amp can handle it. The same amplifier will produce 100 watts at a 2 ohm load. So if you hook up two 4 ohm speakers and wire them in parallel, you will decrease the impedance in half to a 2 ohm load. With both positives on the positive side of the amp and both negatives on the negative side of the amp. The amp will produce 100 watts at 2 ohms, in theory giving each speaker 50 watts. Series wiring is connecting the positive wire from the amp to the positive of speaker 1, then take the negative from speaker 1 and connect it to the positive of speaker 2. You then connect the negative of speaker 2 to the negative of the amplifier. This will increase or double the impedance. For two 4 ohm speakers, you will now be at an 8 ohm load on the amplifier. Then there is the combination of series and parallel. But I won’t get into that! In these applications, you will find that most of the time, you will be dealing with parallel wiring.

If you have a subwoofer that is a dual 2 ohm and you have an amp that cannot operate into a low impedance load. You can run that woofer in series making it a 4 ohm woofer and matching it to the amplifier. If you have an amp that can handle the low impedance load, you can run that same woofer in parallel making it a 1 ohm woofer and matching it to the amp. For instance, if you have a 2 ch class ab amp, most do not like to be bridged at anything lower than 4 ohms mono. So if you already have one of those, you can still use that amp on the dual 2 ohm woofer by the way you wire it. Now if you have a class d mono block amp that can play at 1 ohm, you can use that same woofer with that amp at 1 ohms and get a lot of power from that amp as the amp will increase the power output at the lower impedance.

Sorry if that is confusing but I tried to simplify it.

The subs do not have a built in crossover. Was referring to the tower speakers. For the subwoofer, you use the active low pass crossover built into the amp.

Sorry, Moki. Was busy typing this book here! :)

I think you set up is great. The towers have good power and your sub does too. The xs650’s work great with the power you have, although that can handle a solid 100 watts if you decide to up the power to them. But you are probably rocking so hard on the towers anyway, I would not worry about it. Unless you just want a winter project!:ro:

Tim
Wet Sounds

[Moki]

Thank you Phil!
Great customer service when I'm not even a customer...that bodes well for you and your company.

Is the compression done at the head unit? Based on your post, there are definitely some areas where I can tweak my system and turn down the boost on my bass. I will go and check where my cross overs are at and try them at different levels.

[philwsailz]

Phil,

True in theory but in real world applications and taking into account the way our ears work and “perception” of given frequencies, the results are different. Perception plays into effect as humans have a tendency to amplify higher frequencies. These higher frequencies “seem” louder to us. As two sounds leaving a speaker at the same level (intensity) but different frequencies such as high frequencies and low frequencies will not be perceived the same. So perception plays into account. Thus we will “hear” or perceive” the higher frequencies as louder. Not taking into account other factors like reflection, humidity, age etc…

Tim
Wet Sounds

I agree with perception of loudness, as documented by Fletcher and Munson for Ma Bell back in the day, (despite being a hasty report generated rather quickly with the assistance fo a sercetary in an uncontrolled test as I recall).

No argument on perception at all. I just thought you suggested that low frequencies were slower, which ain't right! Maybe I misunderstood...

Sorry!!! :ro:

Great explanation above dude on series vs. parallel, and I too will not tackle the snake oil associated with differing wires which somehow get stratified by cost... ;)

How is everything else?

[philwsailz]

Thank you Phil!
Great customer service when I'm not even a customer...that bodes well for you and your company.

Is the compression done at the head unit? Based on your post, there are definitely some areas where I can tweak my system and turn down the boost on my bass. I will go and check where my cross overs are at and try them at different levels.

Compression is best done at the H/U or at least the pre-amp stage of the amplifer. It is really best placed in front of the H/U volume control, but I know of none in head units at the moment. Unfortunately I know very few amps have it either; the concept is tough enough to grasp that it is not found hardly at all. The Kicker SX amps have it, with limited control, but those are the only ones I know of at the moment.
If one were seriously considering using compressor, I Would try a pro-sound or semi pro-sound compressor with a wall-wart power supply with 12-volt output, and then another volume control or controls after it so that the head unit volume can be set as basically a line driver, and then the volume control(s) after the compressor used to turn the system or zones up and down.

[chpthril]

flatulant over-excursion

I get that when I eat Mexican :eek: :D :ro:

You guys are great :ro: learn something new every day :cool:

[wetsounds1]

Rockin and Rollin, tryin to get ready for CES! How about you? We are right next to ya'll this year. So please pass on the word to not shut us down!:ro: We are going to try to do demo's on the half hour as last year we got so many complaints as the sound was filling the entire show:eek:

[Moki]

Sorry, Moki. Was busy typing this book here! :)

I think you set up is great. The towers have good power and your sub does too. The xs650’s work great with the power you have, although that can handle a solid 100 watts if you decide to up the power to them. But you are probably rocking so hard on the towers anyway, I would not worry about it. Unless you just want a winter project!:ro:

Tim
Wet Sounds

Thanks for the response. What I was really looking for is advice on how to tune my current setup regarding the cross overs, settings, etc specific to the 485s and XS 650 (i.e. do I run the 485s in full range and high pass the xs 650s.) Unless, you want to add anything else, I'll go with Phils' recommendation.

[philwsailz]

Rockin and Rollin, tryin to get ready for CES! How about you? We are right next to ya'll this year. So please pass on the word to not shut us down!:ro: We are going to try to do demo's on the half hour as last year we got so many complaints as the sound was filling the entire show:eek:

Yeah right.... JUST KIDDING!!!!! :D

At the moment, I am not sure if I am going or not, so you will probably not hear me complaining...



Now I know you are there, I might show up so I can complain!:o


Other than that, I am jsut working on normal things, trying to get through another day, and spending too much on glasses. I was told I needed trifocals today. We are getting old, aren't we?

[philwsailz]

:p I get that when I eat Mexican :eek: :D :ro:

You guys are great :ro: learn something new every day :cool:

pffffftt!!!!

(excuse me, it must be the tilapia...) :p

[philwsailz]

Some books today, huh?

[wetsounds1]

Oh sorry, yeah Phil's points are right on. I would start there for settings. 80 HZ on the 485 and see where that gets you and then try to take them down to 60 HZ and see how you like it but I agree that would be the lowest you want to do. same goes for the in boats. The XS650 can play a ton of mid bass, more than a typical 6.5 inch speaker as I designed them to have a bit more punch. So you could try the same on those and see.

Tim

[zad0030]

Phil,

True in theory but in real world applications and taking into account the way our ears work and “perception” of given frequencies, the results are different. Perception plays into effect as humans have a tendency to amplify higher frequencies. These higher frequencies “seem” louder to us. As two sounds leaving a speaker at the same level (intensity) but different frequencies such as high frequencies and low frequencies will not be perceived the same. So perception plays into account. Thus we will “hear” or perceive” the higher frequencies as louder. Not taking into account other factors like reflection, humidity, age etc…

Kscales,

We are re doing the install now, that is why I have not shown any pics as it has all been a temporary set up. We are getting it dialed in for some upcoming shows. I will upload pics when we get it finished.

I am not sure what you have in the boat now. What is in the boat now? As you only mentioned the pdx amps so I assumed you have all of those already. If the boat comes with the Kicker 5 ch amp. You would be fine leaving that in the boat on the inboat speakers and 10 inch subwoofer. And just using the pdx4.150 on the towers. If you have the pdx 4.100 on the towers now. And are happy with the output, then no worries. Listen to the system first and see how it works for you. As everyone has different objectives when it comes to their system.

As for the power wire. If you are sticking with the factory set up, the 8 ga is fine. If you are adding another amp. You will want to run separate power and ground as you do not want to have 2 amps running off a single 8 ga. You can also add another run of 8 ga to the same amp, thus giving you a 4 ga run if your amp needs the current. Proper current to the amplifier is key as they amp will be pulling current from the battery. Larger ga wire will handle more current. My system is quite different as I mentioned, I don’t do anything small so my entire system is 0 ga all the way into each amp using 0 to 4 ga adapters. It is overkill. But then again, this is our demo boat so it is a bit different. I also have 8 batteries in the boat, onboard chargers/power supplies and a 150 amp alternator on the way. So don’t look at how mine is because it is overkill. But I have around 7000 watts in the boat and it is designed to be able to play for long periods of time. So I have a lot of juice.

As for RCA’s. There are many different opinions on the quality of sound with any given wire. That is why you see rca’s that cost thousands of dollars and speaker wire that is $10 a foot. I will not get into that whole discussion. But I will say as long as you are using decent wire which the factory is. And you do not have any noise like engine noise. You will be fine with the RCA’s. If you have the funds to spend on higher quality ones, you can.

The head unit is not running any speakers on the factory set up. All the inboat speakers and 10 inch sub are being run off the 5 ch amp.

Let me see if I can explain ohms and impedance and series and parallel easily. The impedance of a speaker is designated as ohms. Ohms is a unit of measure. Amplifiers are designed to operate into some sort of a load. For instance one amplifier will produce 50 watts at 4 ohms. Meaning it will send 50 watts to a single 4 ohm speaker. Most car audio amps today will double the output power when the load is dropped if the amp can handle it. The same amplifier will produce 100 watts at a 2 ohm load. So if you hook up two 4 ohm speakers and wire them in parallel, you will decrease the impedance in half to a 2 ohm load. With both positives on the positive side of the amp and both negatives on the negative side of the amp. The amp will produce 100 watts at 2 ohms, in theory giving each speaker 50 watts. Series wiring is connecting the positive wire from the amp to the positive of speaker 1, then take the negative from speaker 1 and connect it to the positive of speaker 2. You then connect the negative of speaker 2 to the negative of the amplifier. This will increase or double the impedance. For two 4 ohm speakers, you will now be at an 8 ohm load on the amplifier. Then there is the combination of series and parallel. But I won’t get into that! In these applications, you will find that most of the time, you will be dealing with parallel wiring.

If you have a subwoofer that is a dual 2 ohm and you have an amp that cannot operate into a low impedance load. You can run that woofer in series making it a 4 ohm woofer and matching it to the amplifier. If you have an amp that can handle the low impedance load, you can run that same woofer in parallel making it a 1 ohm woofer and matching it to the amp. For instance, if you have a 2 ch class ab amp, most do not like to be bridged at anything lower than 4 ohms mono. So if you already have one of those, you can still use that amp on the dual 2 ohm woofer by the way you wire it. Now if you have a class d mono block amp that can play at 1 ohm, you can use that same woofer with that amp at 1 ohms and get a lot of power from that amp as the amp will increase the power output at the lower impedance.

Sorry if that is confusing but I tried to simplify it.

The subs do not have a built in crossover. Was referring to the tower speakers. For the subwoofer, you use the active low pass crossover built into the amp.

Sorry, Moki. Was busy typing this book here! :)

I think you set up is great. The towers have good power and your sub does too. The xs650’s work great with the power you have, although that can handle a solid 100 watts if you decide to up the power to them. But you are probably rocking so hard on the towers anyway, I would not worry about it. Unless you just want a winter project!:ro:

Tim
Wet Sounds

This might be one of the longest posts on this site.:ro:

[da.bell]

This might be one of the longest posts on this site.:ro:

I hope you aren't complaining!!!!! :D

[zad0030]

I hope you aren't complaining!!!!! :D

Im just stating a fact;)

[kscales]

Can either one of you tell me who tunes the stuff in the boats when they are being built?

The gains/ CrossX etc etc all have settings applied to them. Who determines the settings and even the wiring at the factory? I ask because if it is just some random installer @ Tige, how can we make sure they wired it right in the 1st place?

Does Kicker say how to set and wire the amps and does WetSounds tell them how to wire them to the amps?

Thanks guys, its awesome to have both of you here:)

[philwsailz]

Can either one of you tell me who tunes the stuff in the boats when they are being built?

The gains/ CrossX etc etc all have settings applied to them. Who determines the settings and even the wiring at the factory? I ask because if it is just some random installer @ Tige, how can we make sure they wired it right in the 1st place?

Does Kicker say how to set and wire the amps and does WetSounds tell them how to wire them to the amps?

Thanks guys, its awesome to have both of you here:)

When the system was 100% Kicker, I was personally in the plant, and a document was maintained that called out all settings, be they switches or knobs, for every stereo. Wiring schematics were also created for the tower systems, and the boat systems.

Tim, have you changed anything I did, or do you and I maybe need to get down there with my guy and visit with Jester and re-establish the standard?

Short answer: it is not supposed to be randomly up to some random guy on the line; there is or should be documentation.

[wetsounds1]

I persoanlly tuned some boats and set the standards on the new boats systems. Like Phil did for the old ones. So there is documentation as to the proper settings. So each boat should leave with all the settings in the right place and the gains set for the optimum operation. As in a "unity" type setting with the system balanced all the way across.

Tige is a 4 hour drive for me so I have spent a lot of time there working with them on the systems and getting the wiring and settings set up.

Tim
Wet Sounds

[dogbert]

You guys should publish that info on this site. Perhaps Matt can put it up with the rest of the manuals.

[hyper4life]

That would be sweet for owners and dealers for the settings to be posted on here. Maybe showing pictures of the kicker amps and highlightng the settings for each knob on the amps. Doing this for the Power Premium, 1 Amp, system and the Tower of Power, 2 amp, system would help out alot of people that arent quite in the know as some stero gurus. That way people will have a starting point and a place to go back to if they decide to play with the settings!

[Ks]

That would be sweet for owners and dealers for the settings to be posted on here. Maybe showing pictures of the kicker amps and highlightng the settings for each knob on the amps. Doing this for the Power Premium, 1 Amp, system and the Tower of Power, 2 amp, system would help out alot of people that arent quite in the know as some stero gurus. That way people will have a starting point and a place to go back to if they decide to play with the settings!

exactly:)

[chpthril]

That would be sweet for owners and dealers for the settings to be posted on here. Maybe showing pictures of the kicker amps and highlightng the settings for each knob on the amps. Doing this for the Power Premium, 1 Amp, system and the Tower of Power, 2 amp, system would help out alot of people that arent quite in the know as some stero gurus. That way people will have a starting point and a place to go back to if they decide to play with the settings!

This would not be hard for us to do. With a little searching, we can find all the recommended amp settings. most of which are found in this very thread. Next, we just need a member with each level of stereo option, to build the wiring schematic based on his boat. Then we can have someone put it into a PDF and have Matt put it under "downloads" or just make it a regular thread and have it a "sticky" under "General Stereo"

Unless Tim and Phil can share with us what Tige has, then we dont have to do a thing :D :ro:

[philwsailz]

This would not be hard for us to do. With a little searching, we can find all the recommended amp settings. most of which are found in this very thread. Next, we just need a member with each level of stereo option, to build the wiring schematic based on his boat. Then we can have someone put it into a PDF and have Matt put it under "downloads" or just make it a regular thread and have it a "sticky" under "General Stereo"

Unless Tim and Phil can share with us what Tige has, then we dont have to do a thing :D :ro:

That would probably be the easiest.....

[MRMoffat1]

This would not be hard for us to do. With a little searching, we can find all the recommended amp settings. most of which are found in this very thread. Next, we just need a member with each level of stereo option, to build the wiring schematic based on his boat. Then we can have someone put it into a PDF and have Matt put it under "downloads" or just make it a regular thread and have it a "sticky" under "General Stereo"

Unless Tim and Phil can share with us what Tige has, then we dont have to do a thing :D :ro:

I second that. We don't really seem to have many options on obtaining Tige detail system manuals.

[Lunchbox]

That's why I'm so glad I chose a Tige... This board is the best... Phil, Tim, those posts were so helpful...