Duel rudders, Your takes:

[Wake Bandits]

Duel Rudders.
Noticed Epic WB boats offers duel rudders.
Any takes on this?

[zad0030]

Not needed....

[CP3]

I dont know what exactly it does???

[Domsz06]

I really don't see the point. I can see the pro's, but on the small boats not needed

[zad0030]

Why dont they just but dual engines on it too....

[whitlock87]

If you had two rudders, Then the prop would be in-between them.
So you would have much better steering at low speed / costing.
Heck it might even help in reverse, as the prop would not wash out the rudder.

[Domsz06]

I don't know if it would help that much more at low speeds due to the fact that still the prop is facing forward not back. and inorder to improve low speed the prop needs to turn or you need jets.

I think the only thing it may give you is a cleaner wake.

[whitlock87]

With a single rudder, the prop block the water flow.
This is why the boat will only steer when the prop is spinning.
( and your SOL when costing)

With double rudders, there is no obstruction in front of the rudders.
So as long as the boat is moving forward, you will be able to steer it.

[Domsz06]

um, you said the exact same thing. :)

if you have dual rudders you will still only be able to turn when moving forward, same as a single. You might be able to turn a bit more at a slightly slower rate since you would have more water getting by since the prop is not moving. But just like when you have a single rudder when you stop moving, whether the prop is turnig or not you can't turn. I can turn my single rudder as long as I'm moving forward, whether the prop is turning or not.

[talltigeguy]

I think with dual rudders, you have double the surface area and hence pressure against them to turn the boat. If you load a boat with 4000 pounds of ballast, you will need extra pressure on the rudder to turn the boat. I think it is genius. I would be willing to bet it handles better than any other boat with that much weight.

[dogbert]

I would think dual rudders would provide much better steerage, especially under load. :ro: They also added another feature with their speakers on the back of the boat...I'd thought about that a long time ago when I was looking into adding tunes for the boarder, glad to see someone was listening...too bad they have a patent on it now.

As for dueling rudders, I can't see the value in that at all. :D :D

[Domsz06]

interesting dog.

[Wake Bandits]

The duel rudders are catching peoples attention:
Check this site:
http://www.epicboats.com/
Click about the site and you can get a close-up of the rudders and their claim it's the second coming.

Or is that spelled DUAL.

[Domsz06]

sharp looking boat. I wonder what the rudders do to the wake that close to the prop. I envisioned them further out.

I would venture to agree with dog in that when loaded at speeds they perform amazing. HOWEVER I still wonder how they would help any or not at low speeds.

I think it's great that epic has the plate and 4000 lbs of stock ballast, heck yea!! now if they could only make a "Transom" hull it would kick butt!

[dogbert]

HOWEVER I still wonder how they would help any or not at low speeds.

I would venture to say, yes. I have an FAE and it's like having an extra tracking fin behind your rudder. It really affects you at low speeds.

[Wake Bandits]

This through the hull, dual prop Volvo system would cure the reverse and low speed issues with a WB boat:
http://z.about.com/d/powerboat/1/8/y/VolvoPentaIPS.jpg

[dogbert]

Hey, you're onto something. Forget the rudders altogether and just offer a rotating prop/rudder combo (like an I/O, except underneath the boat). :ro:

[Domsz06]

interesting.

[Wake Bandits]

It's call the Volvo TPI system.
Docking is super easy and fun with them. Almost like having side propulsion.

[CP3]

This through the hull, dual prop Volvo system would cure the reverse and low speed issues with a WB boat:
http://z.about.com/d/powerboat/1/8/y/VolvoPentaIPS.jpg

they have been talking about putting those in wake boats for a while now. so far no one has stepped up to the plate

[Wake Bandits]

Reverse, low speed handling and docking is not just a minor annoyance,, it's a big issue with most WB boats.

We'd love to see this, at least offered as an option.
The boat would turn in it's own radius too.

Hope Charlie gets on the phone with Volvo by the time we're ready to buy again.

Supposed to be very complicated, technical, and expensive though.

[da.bell]

RZ1??? or Z1????? Is it a diesel????

[whitlock87]

um, you said the exact same thing. :)

if you have dual rudders you will still only be able to turn when moving forward, same as a single. You might be able to turn a bit more at a slightly slower rate since you would have more water getting by since the prop is not moving. But just like when you have a single rudder when you stop moving, whether the prop is turnig or not you can't turn. I can turn my single rudder as long as I'm moving forward, whether the prop is turning or not.

If the boat is not moving IT CAN NOT BE TURNED BY THE RUDDER!

I have a 4 blade prop. When I cut the throttle back to neutral, I lose all steering.
With twin rudders you will still be able to turn as long as the boat is costing.

There is a difference between costing and drifting. Costing you are moving faster then the water. (So you will be able to turn as long as water is passing over the rudder)
Drifting you are at the mercy of the elements. (No control)

[dogbert]

RZ1??? or Z1????? Is it a diesel????

We all wish. I'd think they would have to redesign the v-drive, trannies and drive shafts on most of the boats to handle the extra torque.

I wish I had a diesel last night. Over 1000 lbs of people and 1200 lbs of ballast, my baby was really struggling to get going, but once she got there, boy, was the surf wake sweet. :ro:

[chpthril]

This through the hull, dual prop Volvo system would cure the reverse and low speed issues with a WB boat:
http://z.about.com/d/powerboat/1/8/y/VolvoPentaIPS.jpg

So that would give an inboard about a 4' draft :eek: and the bow rise of a run-a-bout

Reverse, low speed handling and docking is not just a minor annoyance,, it's a big issue with most WB boats.

We'd love to see this, at least offered as an option.
The boat would turn in it's own radius too.

Hope Charlie gets on the phone with Volvo by the time we're ready to buy again.

Supposed to be very complicated, technical, and expensive though.

poor low speed/docking maneuverability is a small trade off for the superb handling/tracking of an inboard while pulling a boarder. :02:

[zad0030]

So that would give an inboard about a 4' draft :eek: and the bow rise of a run-a-bout



poor low speed/docking maneuverability is a small trade off for the superb handling/tracking of an inboard while pulling a boarder. :02:

I dont think it would be too much different from whats there now... only thing different would be handling in reverse

[evil0ne]

Don't forget the alignment issues EPIC had with their dual rudders. If they got out of alignment it would mess up the wake, etc.

[zad0030]

If the boat is not moving IT CAN NOT BE TURNED BY THE RUDDER!

I have a 4 blade prop. When I cut the throttle back to neutral, I lose all steering.
With twin rudders you will still be able to turn as long as the boat is costing.

There is a difference between costing and drifting. Costing you are moving faster then the water. (So you will be able to turn as long as water is passing over the rudder)
Drifting you are at the mercy of the elements. (No control)

ERR wrong. I drove a supra and when I put it on the trailer using just slight bumps i noticed while in nuetral and "DRIFTING" the boat would still steer.

[mtnsmith]

It's actually Volvo IPS, and yes it would give the boat a huge draft. That thing is also very heavy and would make the boat extremely stern heavy. I like the idea and so does most of the express cruiser boating world so far, which is the key market for this system. Mercruiser came out with their own similar system this year called Zeus. Both are very cool as far as what they have done for boat handling. This type of propulsion is nothing new to the cruise ship industry though, they have had what they call the Azipod style propulsion for a number of years. The maneuverability gained by being able to angle the prop is huge as anyone that has owned a stern drive or outboard knows. You just can't beat the wake from a traditional inboard set-up. Big bulky outdrives cause a lot of water turbulence that aerates the water and makes it less firm, thus giving the win to inboards for the wake. As far as the dual rudder set-up, I think it is pretty neat and being able to direct more of the propulsion is a neat idea, but on such a small boat, is it really needed??? I am not sure how many of you have driven a large boat...50-foot plus...but a 20-ish foot long boat is really never difficult to drive, just my opinion though:D

[Domsz06]

If the boat is not moving IT CAN NOT BE TURNED BY THE RUDDER!

I have a 4 blade prop. When I cut the throttle back to neutral, I lose all steering.
With twin rudders you will still be able to turn as long as the boat is costing.

There is a difference between costing and drifting. Costing you are moving faster then the water. (So you will be able to turn as long as water is passing over the rudder)
Drifting you are at the mercy of the elements. (No control)

Difference between the boat moving and the prop moving. The prop can be in neutral and a single rudder will still turn as long as the boat is moving. WHen I cut my boat to neutral I can still stear until the "Boat" stops If you are coasting the dual rudder is still going to do nothing for you.

I'm not sure why your boat doesn't turn while coasting, All three tiges I have driven as long as I"m coasting I can still turn them. Not a lot, as the speed decreases but they all turn.

[Wake Bandits]

The small block vortec with the Volvo TPI drive is what I'm suggesting.
Not the Diesel.

[mtnsmith]

If they could get the weight down on the IPS and size so that it wasn't so large under the boat, but I don't see them doing that anytime soon. The smallest IPS with a 4 cylinder diesel weighs 1646lbs.:eek: It is a neat design though.

[dogbert]

I think I'd just settle for the diesel.