ballast

[Gudge]

I understand the way taps works with a convex hull. it makes perfect sence, but how many of the 22 or 24V owners are still adding ballast? Did anyone get the new factory ballast options? I'm just curious about the convex hulls, not the older versions.

[Ruune]

I'll be running TAPS and ballast when mine comes. I'm ordering mine without the factory ballast for 2 reasons- #1 I dont like rigid ballast- I want to be able to take out the sacks and use the space. #2- I can add more weight than the 1000 lbs that the factory option holds.

[Sammamish22V]

If you are a serious wakeboarder, you absolutely have to add ballast. 1k in ballast is a great start, 2k is incredible. I have a custom built Rival Industries 5 bag system that fills and drains almost 2000 pounds in about 5 minutes flat. Each bag has a separate fill and drain switch, which is great for alternating between surfing and wakeboarding.

[Gudge]

How is the factory ballast option?? I havent found anyone that has it.

[Sammamish22V]

I haven't either. I think Rival has a much better set up than the factory and I believe it will cost you a lot less as well. The owner of Rival is also a Tige dealer, so he has these things dialed in with the Tige's. It is by far the best option on my boat (with the exception of PP and my stereo system).

What Tige really needs to do is use the Rival system in their boats. The way I mounted the switch panel, it looks like a stock set up.

[Matt Garcia]

Sammamish22V, I have seen your wake on wakeworld.com and I must say I was impressed with the size and shape. That Rival Ballast seems like an awesome setup.

[Cheeky]

Will Tige ever sanction their dealers installing the 5th bag in the hull under the walkway in the bow ?

I would love for my dealer to do this, but he was told it would void the warranty.

[Sammamish22V]

I didn't even think about this when I did it. Glad I just "did it" without thinking about it. I have no clue why it would void the warranty. It is a small hole to stuff the bag into, but is very important. I 500 pound bag in the center of the boat makes a big difference.

[Cheeky]

Exactly, when I first read you post on either WW or Wakeboarder, I thought that is an AWESOME idea. A buddy with a 22v asked our dealerr and was told no. I also asked for my 21 V thinking I could save the space under my seats, plus get an extra 100 lbs (only have 400 under the front seats).

I would like to see why this is so bad. Like I said, I think it is a brilliant use of space.

[Gudge]

Did you cut the floor out or is there a compartment door that you were able to push it through? I'm going to look at one today, but never noticed before.

[Sammamish22V]

We cut a small hole in the floor, just big enough to stuff a 500 pound sac into. There is a great spot underneath there to fit the sac. Then a removable cap was installed, like the ones you see in the back of boats to access wiring and such. I'll try and get out there to take a few pics.

[Andrew]

Cutting a hole in the walk through floor will void the warranty, see Limited Warranty Agreement. By cutting a hole in the floor you have altered the construction process by removing/changing the structural features that we had designed into the boats. Our construction methods insures the strongest boats in the market today. With the introduction of the 2004 models, being all composite, portions of the stringer system is now located under the walk through and if a person was to cut a hole in that area they will be altering the structural integerity of the stringer system and this will not be covered under any warranty.

[Ruune]

I was thinking the same thing, but this brings up another point. What if you wanted to add perfect pass later on? That would entail cutting a small hole through the hull for the speedo pickup. What about holes for an add-on ballast system or additional bilge pumps?

[Andrew]

Adding a hole for perfect pass or installing overflows for ballast is completely different than cutting openings into walk throughs. Before cutting into any boat I would check with the manufacturer and ask the questions concerning warranty. Tige Boats can only warranty items that have been installed at the factory during the boats construction. Any options that a dealership or individual adds to a boat is covered by the dealership or individual installing the options.

[Porter]

Another option to get a sack in the walkway of a pre-2004 boat might be to take out the fuel tank, run the plumbing to the sack, and then replace the fuel tank. This is a ton of work, but it would get you to the same point without having to cut a hole in the floor.

Andrew, I assume that wouldn't void any warranty, correct?

[dogbert]

Originally posted by Porter
Another option to get a sack in the walkway of a pre-2004 boat might be to take out the fuel tank, run the plumbing to the sack, and then replace the fuel tank. This is a ton of work, but it would get you to the same point without having to cut a hole in the floor.

Andrew, I assume that wouldn't void any warranty, correct?

Why couldn't you stuff the sack through that same opening without removing the fuel tank?

[Andrew]

No that would not voiod the warranty. The opening between the fuel tank and the floor is approximately 2-3 inches and does not allow enough room to do anything. When we went all composite the stringer systems was changed and some parts of the stringer goes underneath the walk-through. If someone was drilling in the walkthrough they could drill into the stringer system and that would cause the warranty to be voided.

The 2nd item to concider is that some states are starting to count ballast against the capasity sticker weight. This will hurt a lot of companies.

Andrew

[Wake Havasu]

Originally posted by Andrew

The 2nd item to concider is that some states are starting to count ballast against the capasity sticker weight. This will hurt a lot of companies.
Andrew

And would help one!

[dogbert]

Originally posted by Andrew
When we went all composite the stringer systems was changed and some parts of the stringer goes underneath the walk-through. If someone was drilling in the walkthrough they could drill into the stringer system and that would cause the warranty to be voided.


When was that change made?

[Andrew]

Tige went all composite in the 2004 model year.

[dogbert]

Just curious, how much space is there under the walk thru on a 1999 2100v?

[Andrew]

Originally posted by tweirich
Just curious, how much space is there under the walk thru on a 1999 2100v?

PM sent

[zeda]

Andrew,

So all of those Tige's with an aftermarket ballast sysem (i.e. Rival) that have holes drilled in them for fill and drain lines have voided warranties on the hull? I'm considering installing the Rival system in my 2004 22V and will think twice if my hull warranty is voided. Can you clarify how the installation of this system effects the warranty?

[Andrew]

No that does not void the warranty. If someone drills through the center walkthrough then that is a different story. There are 2 different conversations going on here.

1 asked about drilling into the walkway and with the new stringer system we have there is a section that goes underneath the walkway and if you drill a hole out in the walkway then this could void the warranty.

Installing a rival ballast system where you are drilling a small hole for the water to exit is completely different and will not void the warranty

Hope this answers your questions. If there are any further please let me know.

Andrew

[brd4fun]

Cheeky,

My new 06 Malibu LSV 23 has a center ballast and all tanks are under the floor.

It also does not lean.

[Lucky 275]

yeah, but it's PINK

[lee]

brd 4 fun if you are lucky 2.

[harv]

I've decided to install a 4 bag Rival ballast system in my 05 Switch V. Has anyone done this themselves before? I've heard that it takes a long long time to do which is fine with me but what are the chances of drilling a filling or draining hole in the wrong place.

Any info on the "do-it-yourself" technique would be appreciated.

[Lucky 275]

I'll try and remember to take some pics tonight, it's gonna be hard because I got a new game for the xbox360 : )

[Paublo]

harv, I have the Rival ballast system which was installed by my dealer- who sells the system. This winter I have made a few modifications to the system which has left little untouched- replacing and adding bags, changing from the electric valve to manual, cutting holes, some rewiring, etc. It definately takes more time than you expect, but since I love being in my boat (on the water or not), who cares. If you are a somewhat handy, go ahead and do it. Follow the old addage- meaure twice and cut once. The guys at Rival will answer any question that you can come up with.

[spenchey2]

when my 22 gets here and summer comes, i'm be useing just taps. many people who i've talked to have said the only reason you need ballast is if your going to be pulling pros.

[Ruune]

Originally posted by spenchey2
when my 22 gets here and summer comes, i'm be useing just taps. many people who i've talked to have said the only reason you need ballast is if your going to be pulling pros.

LOL thats what I originally thought. The wake is good w/o ballast, but phenominal with. Try it both ways.

[Big Fire]

This question has kind of been answered but I just was looking for some clarification. I'm looking to install my own ballast system in my boat. Despite all of the great reviews I have hear about rival, I'm planning on using 3 simers into two hard tanks in the back, and a Fly High bow sack in the front.

My question is in regards to drilling the hole for the pick-up. I know the factory system drills through above the taps plate, but that doesn't let you pick-up/drain on the move. I am looking to drill opposite the fresh water pick-up. So what does that do to the warranty? I tried reading through all of the warranty info and have an idea but would love some clarification. I have a '02 21V Limited.

Thanks for the help.

[Paublo]

If you have any real concerns give Andrew a call at Tige, but he stated previously-

___________________________________
No that does not void the warranty. If someone drills through the center walkthrough then that is a different story. There are 2 different conversations going on here.

1 asked about drilling into the walkway and with the new stringer system we have there is a section that goes underneath the walkway and if you drill a hole out in the walkway then this could void the warranty.

Installing a rival ballast system where you are drilling a small hole for the water to exit is completely different and will not void the warranty

Hope this answers your questions. If there are any further please let me know.

Andrew
____________________________________

The hole for ballast water pick-up is the same as the pick-up for engine cooling and similar to the hole for perfect pass. Pick the right spot and no worries.

[dogbert]

Speaking of Rival, I tried contacting them to get more specifics about whether or not their system would fit in my '99 21v, but haven't received a response from them. Does anyone out there have one and, if so, do you have some pictures or dimensions?

[Paublo]

My unofficial answer would be yes, it will fit. I have heard of a few makes/model of direct drives that may have a tough time fitting the valve in, but you should be ok. Do a search, there are a few pictures on here.

Wait until Monday and then give the guys at Rival (Tige Performance Boats- Mesa, AZ) a call. They are all involved in a boat show at Lake Pleasant from Thurs thru Sun.

[lee]

I believe it would fit, we just finished the install in a 2001 21v on Wednesday.

[dougofkc]

I've got a 2003 22V and just chopped in a new 6" deck plate. The space opened up room to plumb in my built in tanks, and add a 500 pounder in the floor. The weight is exactly where I needed it. I was not aware of this forum before I chopped the hole. Sucks to hear that the warranty may be void now but I think I would have made the chop anyway. Thats some great space, not sure why there is not more gas tank under there, or a deck plate from the factory. Unless you want bags all over the floor this is the only way to keep it clean and get the 60/40 weight distribution you need for a big wake.

[talltigeguy]

Doug,

DO you have a pic of where you made the hole?

[dougofkc]

Here is a pic. Lots of other stuff going on with my ballast overhaul this winter... pardon the mess please!

[21V_Swe]

Hi!

I've got a 2001 21v which I'm installing my custom ballast system with three ballast-puppys and 3 flighhigh sacs. I've already bought a flyhigh sac that will fit perfectly in front of the gastank and I'm planning on cutting a hole in the walkway for inspection. My consideration after reading this post is: Is there any issues with this on a 2001 or only 2004->?

[talltigeguy]

Doug,

I don't see a picture. Is that just my computer? Thanks for trying, I really would like to see it.

SWE,

Just be careful of where the stringers are under the floor, you may not be able to get through where you want.

[dogbert]

Originally posted by 21V_Swe
Hi!

I've got a 2001 21v which I'm installing my custom ballast system with three ballast-puppys and 3 flighhigh sacs. I've already bought a flyhigh sac that will fit perfectly in front of the gastank and I'm planning on cutting a hole in the walkway for inspection. My consideration after reading this post is: Is there any issues with this on a 2001 or only 2004->?

You might want to check with Andrew on this, but I don't think there's any room there and from what Andrew told me, you'd damage the stingers and void your hull warranty. I'd PM him.

I have the same boat as you and I had the same question.

BTW, you can really only get about 1500 lbs max in that boat. I've currently got a manual system, but I've got 2 350s on either side of the engine and about 650-700 up front (in a Flying High wraparound bowsack underneath the front seats) and a 150 moveable Launchpad that we move around depending on occuppancy and weighting needs. The nice thing about the 150 is that you can move it around. Alternatively, you could look into some lead.

Also, I've got a longer ski locker sack that I fill when we're surfing and it goes in that storage area below the passenger side (right behind the cooler).

Hope this helps.

-t

[21V_Swe]

Thanx alot Dogbert.. :)

But I've already removed the gastank and made sure that the sac will fit there (holds 680lbs, can fill to 600), would just be nice to be able to check on it if I get any problems, don't wanna remove the tank every time :).. BTW, Why is it not possible to load more than 1500??? When this installation is done I've got 1400 and got plenty of space left.. :) No storage used except for the Vdrive lockers.

[Sammamish22V]

Just to confirm on this discussion, you can only put in a sac under the floor up to a 2003 model. It voids the warranty, but you can do it. In 2004, they changed the stringers and that took away the room. It is a shame because that 500 pound sac right under the center of the boat is perfect.

[dougofkc]

I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to get the right balance of wieght and placement. What Ihave discoverd is weight in front of the gas tank in the floor helps no matter what at making the wake nice and tall. I run with 1200 in the back with the bags pushed as far forward as I can get them 400ish in the hole in front of gas tank and 600ish in the nose/under front seats. Taps on 3-5 with this setup produces tall rampy wake. 2003 Tige 22V

[talltigeguy]

So did you just run the hoses beside the gas tank up to the bag?

Thanks for the pic.

Does anyone have a picture of the stringer system without the floor on? Is there much space there?

So the bag you put in there is just a typical cylinder shaped bag?

Why wouldn't Tige do exactly what you did? It would seem to be a nice spot to hide ballast under the floor.

[Lucky 275]

the newer Tiges (2004+) have a foam type core in that spot. That's when they changed from a wood stringer set up. I've seen pics without the floor in the newer boats, but I don't have a copy of them.

[Ruune]

'03 didnt have wood stringers- it had four composite ones.

[Lucky 275]

When did they move away from wood? here's the latest core

[Lucky 275]

oops

[dogbert]

Originally posted by Lucky 275
oops

Awesome picture. I wonder if we could get similar pics for other models?


BTW, nice mod on the floor sack! Was it hard to get your gas tank out of there?

[talltigeguy]

I had always understood that the wood was gone in 2003 (note the difference in hull design between 2002-2003).

Obviously, it would be pretty disappointing to drill a hole in the floor and find a bunch of foam. Does anyone know of a way to know if I could put a bag under there? 2005 24V.

[Moki]

Originally posted by dougofkc
I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to get the right balance of wieght and placement. What Ihave discoverd is weight in front of the gas tank in the floor helps no matter what at making the wake nice and tall. I run with 1200 in the back with the bags pushed as far forward as I can get them 400ish in the hole in front of gas tank and 600ish in the nose/under front seats. Taps on 3-5 with this setup produces tall rampy wake. 2003 Tige 22V

I got a 2000 2300V, so I am very interested in what you did. Did you cut out that large hole in your walk way?

[lee]

Originally posted by talltigeguy
I had always understood that the wood was gone in 2003 (note the difference in hull design between 2002-2003).

XL Panel was still used in 2003 in the new hulls.

Originally posted by talltigeguy

Obviously, it would be pretty disappointing to drill a hole in the floor and find a bunch of foam. Does anyone know of a way to know if I could put a bag under there? 2005 24V.

2005 is when Tigé started with the new stringer system.

[talltigeguy]

He really is 'Mr know it all'! ;)

Thank you.

[dougofkc]

Originally posted by Moki
I got a 2000 2300V, so I am very interested in what you did. Did you cut out that large hole in your walk way?

I pulled my gas tank back (not Completely out) and looked around before I went hacking. Once I confirmed that there was lots of space and nothing apparently structural under there I used a 6" circle cutter and choppe the hole and dropped in the deck plate. Note there seem to be sheets of 7/8" plywood under 3/8" of fiberglass to get to this location. Before you cut look under neath and make sure your circle is not on the edge of one of these sheets. I figure that cutting more towards the center of the floor sheet makes the hole less likely to cause structural issues. I went out and pounded through some huge waves to make sure it wasnt going to fly apart. Aside from my crumy Tige tower shaking like always, the boat seemed tight as ever.

On a side note I also installed a new 1.25 inch htru hull scoop to provide a dedicated feed for my ballas system. I was amazed to see that the bottom of the hull in back was less than 3/8" fiberglass only!!! Seems really thin, and i was suprised to to see ply or something else in there.

[dougofkc]

Originally posted by dogbert
Awesome picture. I wonder if we could get similar pics for other models?


BTW, nice mod on the floor sack! Was it hard to get your gas tank out of there?

I just pulled the tank back far enough to confirm the space and were I should drill. I did not take completely out as it would have required removing the rear pylon frame and I ddint feel like messing with that.

[dougofkc]

Originally posted by talltigeguy
Obviously, it would be pretty disappointing to drill a hole in the floor and find a bunch of foam. Does anyone know of a way to know if I could put a bag under there? 2005 24V.

Pull back the fuel tank and look before you cut.

[Moki]

Originally posted by dougofkc
I pulled my gas tank back (not Completely out) and looked around before I went hacking. Once I confirmed that there was lots of space and nothing apparently structural under there I used a 6" circle cutter and choppe the hole and dropped in the deck plate. Note there seem to be sheets of 7/8" plywood under 3/8" of fiberglass to get to this location. Before you cut look under neath and make sure your circle is not on the edge of one of these sheets. I figure that cutting more towards the center of the floor sheet makes the hole less likely to cause structural issues. I went out and pounded through some huge waves to make sure it wasnt going to fly apart. Aside from my crumy Tige tower shaking like always, the boat seemed tight as ever.

On a side note I also installed a new 1.25 inch htru hull scoop to provide a dedicated feed for my ballas system. I was amazed to see that the bottom of the hull in back was less than 3/8" fiberglass only!!! Seems really thin, and i was suprised to to see ply or something else in there.

Doug,
Thanks for the information, very useful. So, did you get your fat sac in by stuffing it through the hole? I assume you ran your hoses along the side of the gas tank. Where are your drain holes located for that sac? One last question, what kind of a sac did you use up there?

[dougofkc]

Originally posted by Moki
Doug,
Thanks for the information, very useful. So, did you get your fat sac in by stuffing it through the hole? I assume you ran your hoses along the side of the gas tank. Where are your drain holes located for that sac? One last question, what kind of a sac did you use up there?

I currently have a 580lbs bag up there. I had to run my feed line across the top of the fuel tanks as I used 1 1/8th lines everywhere and they were a bit to fat to go on the side of the tank. I have a 11/8 drain port on my starboard side for draining and venting this and the nose sac. I run 3 ports on all bags 1 fill, 1 drain, and 1 vent. The vent line for the front uses the same exit port but I have a 1 way valve in the line. The fat Sac I have in the floor only had 2 ports so I cut a hole in the bag and put a Tsunami pump right in the back of it. Keep your hole small and tighted the back nut good and this is a great solution for more ports and draining off the bottom of old style baqs. I guess I only get about 400 lbs in the floor. I've considered custom ordering a v shaped sac but figure why spend the cash when this one works just fine!

[Moki]

That sounds like an awesome setup! I am going to get ballast added, I just don't know if I will be able to get it done this winter or wait until summer. I have a ton of other projects that I will be working on. Did you use the rival system or something else?

[dougofkc]

That sounds like an awesome setup! I am going to get ballast added, I just don't know if I will be able to get it done this winter or wait until summer. I have a ton of other projects that I will be working on. Did you use the rival system or something else?

I just built my own with parts from E-Bay and various online marine dealers. $450 for a system that fills 2K lbs in 4-6 minutes and dumps just as fast. Who needs Rival? :)

[talltigeguy]

When I install my next system, I will do it like Doug. Over the winter if I can. Part of my problem was that I could not do the entire thing at once. I was using the boat as I was installing it.

The advantage of the Rival system was that it saved me the time and effort of ordering everything or going to the hardware store frequently. Unfortunately, they didn't perfectly live up to my expectations, but it did save me a lot of time and effort on that front.

I would order all of the parts and then all of the tools, and hope not to have to make many other trips to the hardware store.