Trailer braking problem

[talltigeguy]

On my way to Lake Powell, I start to brake at a stoplight and suddenly the trailer is bouncing up and down wildly and the wheels seem to lock up (I think). There was enough bouncing that the rear hatch opens and closes with the bouncing. Luckily, I had some extra space before the intersection, and a slight tap on the gas seemed to resolve it.

The same thing occurred without the boat on the trailer when braking at the bottom of the ramp, before turning around to back in. The whole trailer bouncing and coming 6 inches off the ground repeatedly.

I am afraid to hit the brakes too hard now for fear that my boat and trailer are going to start bouncing again. It has not happened again, but I have been extra cautious.

I think that something is wrong with the surge brakes, because even when I brake very slowly and come to a stop, I notice the 'clunk' as the surge releases when I start. That makes me think that the surge mechanism is too soft. Maybe I just have some air in the lines?
What is wrong?

[tigeblue]

It sounds like you have a actuator issue. check the fluid and make sure there is some in there. It may be low. Otherwise your actuator may be failing. If you are towing your trailer with out a your boat your trailer will bounce for sure. Its very normal. If your boat was on it the I would say no messing around and have it looked at by the dealer.

[race fan]

It sure sounds like an actuator to me

[tigeblue]

I had the same problem with my 02 maxum trailer, ended up replacing it.

cost like $250.

[talltigeguy]

THe fluid was slightly low. It took about an ounce or so to get it back up, at the most.

I looked along the brake lines and cannot see any place it might have leaked. I am sure it went somewhere because I topped it off about 9 months ago, so I know it was full back then. Sounds like I need a professional for sure.

[tigeblue]

did the issue go away once you filled it?

[chpthril]

Disk or Drum? Fluid from a leaking wheel cylinder on drum shoes will cause grabbing.

[monteroy]

i sometimes will have this issue with my electric brakes. i dial down the number and it is fixed.

[scoot18]

THe fluid was slightly low. It took about an ounce or so to get it back up, at the most.

I looked along the brake lines and cannot see any place it might have leaked. I am sure it went somewhere because I topped it off about 9 months ago, so I know it was full back then. Sounds like I need a professional for sure.


Just because it was low doesn't mean you have a leak. If you have disc brakes on your trailer; as the brakes pads wear, the piston in the caliper moves farther outward with the graduall wear, which will create a larger volume of fluid in the caliper piston bore, which in turn lowers the fluid level at the reservoir due to more volume of fluid contained from the claipers back to the reservoir. Make sense?

[talltigeguy]

Scoot,
That sounds reasonable. As we might have figured, topping off the fluid did not fix the problem. I think that the actuator needs to be replaced. They are disc brakes.

The trailer will be at a real professional soon as that it did it again today. The trailer starts bobbing up and down, the tires are making serial screeching noises and it just gives a guy the feeling of impending doom.

[xpjim1]

My extreme trailer has begun to act up also. Same boat and trailer set up as talltigeguy. Basically it feels as if the brakes are not releasing from a dead stop and boat and trailer starts hopping. Fluid was a little low and adding more did nothing Next time out i am going to bleed the brakes and lube the actuator as the manual states. Was reading Extreme warranty it is 5 years, but not sure if that includes the actuator as its documentation states 2 years.

[talltigeguy]

You read the manual?!:eek:

Talked to a guy today, will first bleed the brakes and open up the trailer to get a close look at the actuator. I suppose reading the manual would be a good idea, I will mention to lube the actuator as well. He thought there might even be adjustments on it that might help decrease the sensitivity.

[xpjim1]

Ok more like scanned it. Was looking for a number for Extreme as I had a notion to bring the boat and trailer back to CA for them to look at. Then I thought that was stupid and i will just find a place in Havasu to look at it. No need to hassle with the gas expense, tow, storing and logistics of that. On a side note it is only supposed to hit 125 cool degrees in Havasu today

[TeamAllen]

I just had our drum brakes swapped out last season for new disc brakes on our Extreme Trailer. My wife noticed the same bouncing problem on an empty trailer going down the ramp at Antelope Point. I guess that is normal since the trailer is empty going down that steep launch ramp with some uneven cement. We don't experience it at Lake Mead when we launch there.

[Coop]

Tall and Jim --

I have the same set up ('05 24V and Extreme trailer) and had the same problem twice on the same trip early last summer. Downhill slope, brakes locked, trailer/boat bouncing all around, narrow road -- scared the $#%* out of me. I took it back to Extreme, and while they did not ever say what caused it, they did bleed the brakes and lube the actuator. No problems since.

I sometimes have the "clunking" problem when accelerating (even very slowly) after a stop. I now spray some lubricant in the actuator at the beginning of trips, and it seems to help. Based on recomendations from others, I use Pedro's extra dry lube for bike chains.

[TigeDuner]

The clunking you hear when accelerating from a stop may be the shock in the accuator. It is a small shock absorber that takes up the slack in the accuator. Mine was really bad on my 2000 Extreme so when I took it out, it fell out in 2 pieces. My 06 Prestige is starting to make the same clunk. This little shock must get quite a workout. The part was less than $20.00 at the local trailer shop but read the manual to replace it. Lots of pieces inside the accuator and you do need to do it on the bench. Disconnecting the brake line and the power wire is very easy. Hope this helps......

[anhaney]

Tall and Jim --

I have the same set up ('05 24V and Extreme trailer) and had the same problem twice on the same trip early last summer. Downhill slope, brakes locked, trailer/boat bouncing all around, narrow road -- scared the $#%* out of me. I took it back to Extreme, and while they did not ever say what caused it, they did bleed the brakes and lube the actuator. No problems since.

I sometimes have the "clunking" problem when accelerating (even very slowly) after a stop. I now spray some lubricant in the actuator at the beginning of trips, and it seems to help. Based on recommendations from others, I use Pedro's extra dry lube for bike chains.

Okay, here is the professional view. I teach brake system repairs to technicians and assist them in fixing the assumed unrepairable vehicles.

With disc brakes they run and average of 1100 degrees in temperature. One of the most over looked maintenance items on vehicles is the braking system and fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic. (it absorbs moisture especially when hot). What do we do with boats. UHHH we put hot brakes into a lake and the master cylinder is close to the water. So you should be bleeding your brake systems on your trailers once a year at the least.

When you turn brake rotors you also raise the operating temperature of the brakes by 150 degrees for every .010 you machine off the rotor. On average you have to machine .020 of of any rotor to remove the excess run out thus raising your temperature to 1400 degrees and that is a minimum amount removed. I have drum brakes on my trailer. They were locking up when coming to a stop at the stop signs around town and leaving the lake. I took out the fluid tester and found moister in the fluid. I had just bleed the brakes four trips before that to the lake. I bleed the brakes again and lubed the actuator no more problems. Here is a picture of the fluid tester. They are not to cheap but I can tell you where to get them if you want one. Also here is a link to a service bulletin on bleeding brake systems. This is for cars so you will see it says to bleed your brakes every two years. I have seen several test and effects of not doing this. ABS pumps are not cheap. I have purchased a Vacuum bleeder and can direct you on the same for a reasonable price if you want one. Click around on the brake bulletins. They are great info for you to learn from. This is all just my two cents worth I hope it helps. :D

http://www.raybestos.com/wps/wcm/resources/file/eb2d864da936dea/BPI-00-24rev6-06.pdf

http://www.raybestos.com/wps/wcm/resources/file/eb6f67425458149/BPI-02-06rev6-06.pdf

http://www.raybestos.com/wps/wcm/resources/file/ebd04b411f20e12/BPI-03-13rev6-06.pdf

http://www.otctools.com/products/detail.php?id=1401

[talltigeguy]

Thanks for the tutorial, Haney. That is a handfull. I was searching for the easy fixes, and so far have come up empty.

After having the brakes bled, the problem continues. I talked with a mechanic from the guys who make the surge mechanism. I gave him all the details including that I feel like the surge is soft - what I mean is that I can push it with my hand about 3/4 of the way in, or about 1.5 inches. The mechanic was not sure that it would solve the problem altogether, but said that he is sure that there is still air in the lines, and that I should only be able to compress the surge about 1/2 inch at the most with my bare hands. He suggested rebleeding the brakes, and that it is helpful to lower the master cylinder as far as possible so that the air is more likely to bleed 'uphill' when you bleed the brakes.

Just before the mechanic called, I was sharing this with my dealer, and he thought that being able to compress the surge mechanism that far by hand was just fine.

How far can you push your tongue in?

[Razzman]

Tall, what actuator do you have? I know that i cannot push in the actuator on my UFP A-60 by hand, way to stiff!

[talltigeguy]

How do I tell what actuator I have?

The other thing that makes me wonder that I have air in the lines is that it does rebound some. I can push it in, and then it pushes part way back out. The mechanic said that the shock inside is hydraulic, so it should not come back out on its own.

[Razzman]

Go here to identify your actuator: DHM Trailers (http://www.dhmtrailers.com/online/home.php?cat=7)

The shock should come back out a bit, that's what shocks do or it wouldn't work worth a crap! It's based on the hydraulic pressure and whether it's 100% hydraulic or a gas/oil hybrid the internal spring does have resistance. Well let me rephrase that, it all depends whether it based on a push or pull system. If push then it will extend back out and if pull it will retract. Regardless if it's too easy to actuate the shock then it's probably shot. They are cheap to replace either way.

[talltigeguy]

Mine looks just like the A-60. The picture is not very good, but I am pretty sure that is it, and I know that it says something about a 6,000 pound limit.

The entire assembly is $175. I think that if a second bleed does not solve the problem, then I will go for a new shock.

[Razzman]

That's a good actuator but it is touchy when the shock is gone, i know cause i have the same one and i replaced mine due to going with discs. Anyway call UFP (http://www.ufpnet.com/) @ (800) 854-1905. They are great people and worked with me when mine had issues, i believe the guy i talked to was Mike but just ask for support.

[chpthril]

This is my first trailer with brakes so I dont know all the symptoms they will exhibit. Air is compressible, and this would reduce the force applied to the caliper pistons which would result in less stopping power. So I dont know how air in the lines would cause the brakes to lock up :confused:

Now being able to push the actuator in by hand is either caused by air in the system or a bad actuator or even excessive clearance between the pads and the rotor caused by run-out pushing back the pads. These all cause a spongy pedal in automotive brake systems.

I would also look at such things as loose bearings on the brake axle, binding caliper slides or pads, or excessive rotor run-out.

Too high of tire pressure.

Just my :02: from and old mo-canik :D

[gman]

We have an SBT trailer and after about 15 tows it was metal to metal on the right brake and pretty well worn out pads on the left brake. Have only brakes on front axel of tandem trailer with a 24v boat. Took it in to Extreme in Riverside and they said that because of the weight of the boat they recommend both axels to have brakes and that is what they do for the 24 ft tige. Has anyone worn out the brakes that fast? For those with a 24 ft boat do you have both axels with brakes or just one axel with brakes? Previous trailer I had for 20 years (trail rite) and it still had original brakes.

[da.bell]

I only have one axel with breaks. Disk brakes that is..... :D

[G-MONEY]

I only have one axel with breaks. Disk brakes that is..... :D

Who makes your trailer?

[chpthril]

We have an SBT trailer and after about 15 tows it was metal to metal on the right brake and pretty well worn out pads on the left brake. Have only brakes on front axel of tandem trailer with a 24v boat. Took it in to Extreme in Riverside and they said that because of the weight of the boat they recommend both axels to have brakes and that is what they do for the 24 ft tige. Has anyone worn out the brakes that fast? For those with a 24 ft boat do you have both axels with brakes or just one axel with brakes? Previous trailer I had for 20 years (trail rite) and it still had original brakes.


That's kinda funny because that trailer would have been ordered, and fitted out for the 24' and you cant fit a 24' on a trailer for a 22 :confused:

[da.bell]

Who makes your trailer?

DHM Trailers as Razz's post has linked to. :D

[da.bell]

Here is the my trailer details also: http://www.dhmtrailers.com/online/product.php?productid=3699

[talltigeguy]

All 4 wheels have disc brakes. I would be worried about trying to do a quick stop with a 6,000 pound trailer with just 2 tires braking. My car doesn't weigh that much, and I have brakes on all 4 tires.

The pads seem to be without much wear.

[da.bell]

I only have one axel with breaks. Disk brakes that is..... :D

Okay, I just looked at what I have.... I lied. Brakes on all four wheels.....

I have to check it when I get home. I am sure I only saw brakes on two of the wheels....

[wakeboarder247]

Okay, I just looked at what I have.... I lied. Brakes on all four wheels.....

I have to check it when I get home. I am sure I only saw brakes on two of the wheels....

I'm pretty sure I only have brakes (disc) on the front axle too.

[anhaney]

Talltigeguy, do you pull in canyons and windy roads most of the time or are you on the freeway's?

If you are in the canyons and windy roads or coming down step grades more often then not chances are you need to replace the actuator assembly. The Shock is probably worn out and the spring is week. You also probably have a master cylinder that is worn out. for $175.00. I would change my complete assembly. They are not hard to replace. I would suggest you buy a vaccume bleader and vaccume bleed the system. Do you have an air compressor? If you do I can assist you in getting vaccume bleeder from the local CARQUEST store in ST. George down on main street. I can talk to the guys there and see what they can do for you as they are one of my customers.:D

[talltigeguy]

My most frequent trips are 17 minutes to the lake about once a week for 8-9 months of the year and then 7-10 trips to Lake Mead or Lake Powell. The local trip is only 7 stops or so, and no braking for corners. The trips to Mead or Powell are 100-150 miles one way, mostly highway.

I think replacing the whole thing is what I will do, just need to find the time and make sure I do it right. I sure appreciate your help with getting a vaccuum bleeder if needed. Can't I just hook it up to the shop-vac?;)

[anhaney]

My most frequent trips are 17 minutes to the lake about once a week for 8-9 months of the year and then 7-10 trips to Lake Mead or Lake Powell. The local trip is only 7 stops or so, and no braking for corners. The trips to Mead or Powell are 100-150 miles one way, mostly highway.

I think replacing the whole thing is what I will do, just need to find the time and make sure I do it right. I sure appreciate your help with getting a vaccuum bleeder if needed. Can't I just hook it up to the shop-vac?;)

a shop vac will create to much suction I would think and pull the piston cups out of place in the master cyl. I have never tried that. Kind of a different idea. It sure would make a mess of your shop vac to have brake fluid all over in it. The vacuum bleeder pulls brake fluid through the system and also remove the air. This way you do not need anyone actually moving the actuator or brake pedal when bleeding the system. I can bleed a whole care by my self in ten minutes flat with out a brake fluid mess all over the drive way.

[talltigeguy]

Can't I just hook it up to the shop-vac?;)

I was joking. Sorry, it didn't sound as funny when I wrote it down as when I was thinking it.

[anhaney]

a shop vac will create to much suction I would think and pull the piston cups out of place in the master cyl. I have never tried that. Kind of a different idea. It sure would make a mess of your shop vac to have brake fluid all over in it. The vacuum bleeder pulls brake fluid through the system and also remove the air. This way you do not need anyone actually moving the actuator or brake pedal when bleeding the system. I can bleed a whole care by my self in ten minutes flat with out a brake fluid mess all over the drive way.

Man, I have some spelling issues. That is what I get for staying up so late and not getting sleep.

I figured you were joking Tallguy but just in case cause some people don't I figured I better let you know the rest of the info.

[xpjim1]

Ok - So when I was pulling my boat out of storage the hopping trailer happened again. I did a check and it turns out that all 5
lug nuts were loose and the rim was bouncing around on bent studs. I was taking the trailer to have he brakes inspected from my last trailer incidence leaving the lake last time out. $35 I was good to go. I talked to a friend of mine who went out boating with us that weekend as he started compalining about his trailer. He also had lug nuts loose on one of his trailer tires. I check the lug nuts regularly but not every trip. That will become part of the daily check now

[da.bell]

sounds like someone is playing around with trailers......... :eek:

[CP3]

Check your NUTS regularly :D :D

[da.bell]

Okay, I just looked at what I have.... I lied. Brakes on all four wheels.....

I have to check it when I get home. I am sure I only saw brakes on two of the wheels....

Yes, for disk brakes on two axels..... :)

[xpjim1]

Kind of strange to have both of us having the loose lug nuts. Had a little incident on the launch ramp that morining with a person putting up his bimini and loading the boat on in the lane on the ramp. Just kind of wonder if they messed with our trailers? Live and learn. Just one more thing I will be checking. Trailer is back to normal which is good

[da.bell]

XP, you aren't kidding. I don't argue with anyone on my lake but I also need to check those lug nuts also on a regular basis. That was one great idea and recommendation. :)

[dogbert]

Check your NUTS regularly :D :D

Kinda like baseball, right? :D

[da.bell]

Kinda like baseball, right? :D

Nice "What About Mary" quote there.... :D

[CP3]

not thats your BALLS :D

[anhaney]

I had that problem with mine. I put some anti seize on the threads. Put a torque wrench to 90 Ftlbs and they have not come loose since. Just and idea don't know if you are using a torque wrench or not.