Stereo install woes

[jleger98]

Just spent most of yesterday installing my new system. Got all the speakers mounted, the transom remote, HU and the amps. GREAT! Then I hooked it up to the battery, hit the power and UGH!

Very little volume, and when I tried to increase the gain on the main amp, everything got all nasty. Sounded extraordinarily overmodulated, or like there was a cell phone interference, but it never went away. (I even put my cell phone in the house.)

A couple of things:
1. The entire system is independant of everything else on the boat, so I know there is no interference from that (infact nothing else on the boat is even hooked to a battery at this point.)
2. When I powered it off, waited a minute, then back on, it sounded ok, still sorta quiet, but then after about 10 seconds, the nasty sound faded back in.
3. I had the entire system hooked up in the house, off a different battery and it worked fine.
4. None of the components got jarred or anything in transit from the basement to the boat.
5. I am using a 30A relay to turn on the amps, triggered by the ACC switch.

So, any thoughts? My first thought was I had a short somewhere, but I double checked everything and it all seemed ok - nowhere for a short really.
Next I thought maybe the battery was not charged completely. I had charged it about two weeks ago, but its a used and as-yet unproven battery. I ran out of time to run in and get my meter to test it. I'll try to do that tonight.

Anyone have any other thoughts as to what the issue could be?

was really dissapointing to put a whole day into installing everything and not hearing it cranking at the end of the day.:(

[chpthril]

Here's a couple of thing that I would check if it were me.

Battery charge
fade/balance on HU
Speaker +'s/-'s, may have some out of phase.
I would test all the power and grounds with a test light because a poor connection can still show voltage on a DVOM, but it takes current to burn a test light.

Good luck, I know how frustrated you must be :(

[jleger98]

[QUOTE=chpthril;50939]
I would test all the power and grounds with a test light because a poor connection can still show voltage on a DVOM, but it takes current to burn a test light.
QUOTE]

yeah, I dbl checked the +/- on all the speakers, and power conns. I'll try the test-light thing and the battery pwr. Should be 13V+ right? if fully charged? Actually I might just swap my cranking battery in there just to see if that makes a difference before I go crawling into the amp compartment to test current etc.

[philwsailz]

Your amps have an under-volt feature, and they will shut off if attempting to play at reasonable volume, when the voltage drops under 10.5v. They will cut COMPLETELY off.

Now, that is not to say the will not turn on when you turn the radio on; a very drained battery will still often show 12 volts with no load. It is when you attempt to turn it up that the amps will see the voltage drop below 10.5 volts; when the amps actually start to try to work. Again, your amps will COMPLETELY shut off...

With that being said, yeah, still try a different battery, but your symptoms do not indicate a dead battery at this point, at least not to me.

My first thought is "kitty-whisker" shorting somewhere between the speakers and the amp; not enough to trigger short circuit protection, but enough to make the low power nasty sound you describe.

I would be chasing the speaker wires first; check to make sure there are no accidental shorts between the speakers and the amp.

Did you pull new speaker wire, or use the wire that was in the boat already?

[jleger98]

interesting. All the speaker wire is new. The old stuff was really small.

My first guess is the battery, just becasue its an unknown. I took pretty good care to make sure there were no shorts anywhere or "kitty whiskers".

One other thing that occured to me is that I can try to use the sub amp with each individual speaker to test to see IF there are any shorts.

It also just occurred to me that the HU has a battery level indicator on it. So I can fire it up and just look at that to see where the battery is.

GOD I hate sitting at work when there is work to be done on the boat :p

[Domsz06]

um, is your head unit good? some need a inline booster to the amps to make the quality better and louder.

[jleger98]

It was good when I had it hooked up in the house. I have no reason to believe its bad now. 50w/channel should be plenty of power.

[Domsz06]

but the outputs are not powered by the 50w channel.

after rereading your post I think your right that it's not the prob. But I was referring to on headunits the non expensive kind tend to run not as much power through the outputs of the RCA's So, you therefore have to turn up your amp/speakers more. I know on mine you do. It's going to be interesting as I have a line booster now, wonder how much louder and cleaner they will be:)

[spharis]

What source unit do you have?
How long are your RCAs?
Are you using a seperate wire, or an integrated wire in the RCAs to turn on the amps?
Are you using RCAs, ad not speaker leads to send signal to the amp?
Did you at any point have the HU on while plugging or unplugging RCAs?

[jleger98]

What source unit do you have?
How long are your RCAs?
Are you using a seperate wire, or an integrated wire in the RCAs to turn on the amps?
Are you using RCAs, ad not speaker leads to send signal to the amp?
Did you at any point have the HU on while plugging or unplugging RCAs?

Here is what I have.

I have a Pioneer DEH-P6800MP HU with ip-bus iPod adapter
Kicker KX650.4 4 Channel Car Audio Amp Amplifier
Kicker KX400.1 Mono Class D Amp Car Audio Amplifier
Kicker 05C10-4 subwoofer
4 Polk Audio 6.5" speakers (don't recall the model#)
Pioneer transom remote with ip-bus

I am using RCA's to the amps. Regarding power, I have a switch (the ACC) which hits a relay. That relay in turn powers a fuse-block which is what the amps are powered from. The RCA's are all 4-6 feet long cables. I hooked everything up before applying power to the system, and shut off the ACC switch before removing anything.

[jleger98]

but the outputs are not powered by the 50w channel.

Good point.


But I was referring to on headunits the non expensive kind tend to run not as much power through the outputs of the RCA's

Its not a ultra-high end HU, but its not a cheapo either. and as I said, it worked fine in the house.

[dogbert]

It sounds to me like you have a grounding problem and that there's voltage building up that results in the static noise. Make sure *ALL* of your units are grounded to the same ground. If that doesn't help, try adding a noise filter between your head unit and your amps. It takes care of this type of issue.

[jleger98]

Here is a diagram of what I've done. Maybe there is something obvious here.

And yes, I SUCK at wiring diagrams. Hopefully this won't confuse more than it helps. I left out a few non-powered things, like speakers, some IP-Bus stuff etc but all the power stuff is here.

[chpthril]

Here is a diagram of what I've done. Maybe there is something obvious here.

And yes, I SUCK at wiring diagrams. Hopefully this won't confuse more than it helps. I left out a few non-powered things, like speakers, some IP-Bus stuff etc but all the power stuff is here.

Based on the diag, it looks like the HU ground is "switched" by the relay. If so, I would recommend a "clean" ground right to the battery and use the relay to control the POS.

I made some changes to your drawing, hope that is ok. Thought it would be easier to show than try to explain.

[dogbert]

Ok, if I read this correctly, your fuse block is on the ground for your amps? Also, you have a powerbar (not sure what you mean by this) for your amps, but not for your head unit?

What I was talking about was making sure that the ground was uninterrupted between the the amps and the head unit (and your iPod if it is also powered by your boat). If you don't, you risk noise build up.

Another thing to check is to make sure your ground is beefy enough. I ended up using the 2/0 battery cable for my ground. It's important because of the length you're probably having to run for the ground (mine was 16').

[jleger98]

Ok, if I read this correctly, your fuse block is on the ground for your amps?
The fuse block is one of those that has a single + and a single - in, and then multiple outs for each. This is it here: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/91545/0/0/fise%20block/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0


Also, you have a powerbar (not sure what you mean by this) for your amps, but not for your head unit?

This is basically the same thing, only it has a single + in and 5 un-fused outs. Basically a piece of metal with some screws on it.


What I was talking about was making sure that the ground was uninterrupted between the the amps and the head unit (and your iPod if it is also powered by your boat). If you don't, you risk noise build up.
This might be an issue. I'll have to dbl check, but I think I have a 8g wire from the neg of the battery, but it goes through the relay ( the relay needs a gound) It might be teed off before the relay though.


Another thing to check is to make sure your ground is beefy enough. I ended up using the 2/0 battery cable for my ground. It's important because of the length you're probably having to run for the ground (mine was 16').
Yesterday, for testing, I simply had the battery sitting right there, so the run was may 4 feet.

[jleger98]

Based on the diag, it looks like the HU ground is "switched" by the relay. If so, I would recommend a "clean" ground right to the battery and use the relay to control the POS.

I made some changes to your drawing, hope that is ok. Thought it would be easier to show than try to explain.

I think I left something out. The relay has a constant (+) as per the diagram that came with it.

As for the (-) its not switched, its a "T" only becasue the relay needs it. Like I said, I'm not good at wiriing diagrams.

Here is an updated drawing. Sorry for the dbl image Matt :)

[dogbert]

This might be an issue. I'll have to dbl check, but I think I have a 8g wire from the neg of the battery, but it goes through the relay ( the relay needs a gound) It might be teed off before the relay though.


Yesterday, for testing, I simply had the battery sitting right there, so the run was may 4 feet.

How many amps are your amps pulling? 8g seems a little lite. For comparison, I have a Kenwood 7202 150W per channel RMS amp that draws 40amps.

[jleger98]

How many amps are your amps pulling? 8g seems a little lite. For comparison, I have a Kenwood 7202 150W per channel RMS amp that draws 40amps.


OOOOOH, you might be onto something. The relay that I picked up is a 30A relay. I wonder if the amp is not being allowed to pull the amps it needs through the relay?? Possible???

If I have the entire setup running via the Acc switch, do I even need the relay?

On a side note, I have 4g that I will use when I permanantly install this.

[philwsailz]

OOOOOH, you might be onto something. The relay that I picked up is a 30A relay. I wonder if the amp is not being allowed to pull the amps it needs through the relay?? Possible???

If I have the entire setup running via the Acc switch, do I even need the relay?

On a side note, I have 4g that I will use when I permanantly install this.

HOLY COW!!!!!!!

The amps shoudl be wired directly to the battery. 30A is nowhere near enough current!!!! If you want to be cute and use a relay, use it between the remote turn-on lead of the HU amd the amp's remote sensing leads...

I may edit this in a minute; let me study things more closely in your diagram.

[chpthril]

OOOOOH, you might be onto something. The relay that I picked up is a 30A relay. I wonder if the amp is not being allowed to pull the amps it needs through the relay?? Possible???

If I have the entire setup running via the Acc switch, do I even need the relay?

On a side note, I have 4g that I will use when I permanantly install this.

The relay contacts may weld together or burn up and not make good contact if over-loaded.

The relay can handle far more current than the switch, but may be over-loaded as it is wired know.

Why do you have 2 +'s running to the amps, one constant, one switched and what gauge wire?

[dogbert]

If I have the entire setup running via the Acc switch, do I even need the relay?


Two comments:

1. I have the same setup, but my HU has an additional output for turning on the amps, so I don't have to wire the amps to my accessory switch. I'd be worried about the switch being able to handle the amps your amplifiers will draw.

2. So, if you can do the same thing with your Kickers, I'd say no.


On a side note, I have 4gthat I will use when I permanantly install this.

Still a little lite. The guy I bought the amp from told me that I needed to make sure the ground is substantial enough to avoid noise. I'd match the cable you used to power the amps, of course, if you're still running all power from your ACC switch and you haven't upgraded the + from the battery, you have other problems.

Keep in mind that you want as little resistance as possible. Skimping on power/ground wires is silly, especially given the $$ you spent on the components. IMHO. :)

Just curious, what guage wire are you using in your diagram?

[jleger98]

HOLY COW!!!!!!!

The amps shoudl be wired directly to the battery. 30A is nowhere near enough current!!!! If you want to be cute and use a relay, use it between the remote turn-on lead of the HU amd the amp's remote sensing leads...

I may edit this in a minute; let me study things more closely in your diagram.

heh, no kidding. That may the the problem right there.

[jleger98]

The relay contacts may weld together or burn up and not make good contact if over-loaded.

That would not be cool :(


The relay can handle far more current than the switch, but may be over-loaded as it is wired know.
Now that you mention in, when I had it set up in the house, the amps were wires direct to the batt.


Why do you have 2 +'s running to the amps, one constant, one switched and what gauge wire?

One is for the main power, and one is a remote power. I guess its kickers way of allowing you to turn the power on. You need to have power to both for the amp to turn on. I believe its 8g. I'd have to look to be sure.

Also, and I'm not sure what this is worth, the bigger of the two amps has dual 40Amp fuses built into it.

[philwsailz]

OKAY...

ZX650.4 pulls 80A and is to be wired with a min. of 4AWG
ZX400.1 pulls 40A and is to be wired with a min. of 4AWG

Two options:
option 1:
Pull TWO positive power wires and TWO ground wires, ALL 4AWG from the amps to the battery. Use a 100A fuse for the 650.4 and a 50A fuse for the 400.1

option 2:
Pull one 2AWG or 0AWG power wire and one ground wire the same size. Fuse the power wire at 150A right next to the battery. Use two distribution blocks, one for the power and one for the ground to split the large primary power and ground wires down to 4AWG.

The routing through the relay is certainly part of the problem, maybe not all, but a large chunk of the problem. Get that thing completely out of the power wiring; it is just a fire waiting to happen... If youi want to use it for the remote lead, that is fine, but it has no business in the primary electrical circuit...

[jleger98]

Two comments:

1. I have the same setup, but my HU has an additional output for turning on the amps, so I don't have to wire the amps to my accessory switch. I'd be worried about the switch being able to handle the amps your amplifiers will draw.

2. So, if you can do the same thing with your Kickers, I'd say no.

I'm not sure if my HU has that or not, I'll have to look. It has a "remote" wire, but I figured that was for a wired remote. Either way, that would have to run to the relay still, right?


Still a little lite. The guy I bought the amp from told me that I needed to make sure the ground is substantial enough to avoid noise. I'd match the cable you used to power the amps, of course, if you're still running all power from your ACC switch and you haven't upgraded the + from the battery, you have other problems.

Keep in mind that you want as little resistance as possible. Skimping on power/ground wires is silly, especially given the $$ you spent on the components. IMHO. :)

I'll have to revisit this.


Just curious, what guage wire are you using in your diagram?

I believe 8, maybe 10g.

[jleger98]

OKAY...

ZX650.4 pulls 80A and is to be wired with a min. of 4AWG
ZX400.1 pulls 40A and is to be wired with a min. of 4AWG

Two options:
option 1:
Pull TWO positive power wires and TWO ground wires, ALL 4AWG from the amps to the battery. Use a 100A fuse for the 650.4 and a 50A fuse for the 400.1

option 2:
Pull one 2AWG or 0AWG power wire and one ground wire the same size. Fuse the power wire at 150A right next to the battery. Use two distribution blocks, one for the power and one for the ground to split the large primary power and ground wires down to 4AWG.

HOLY CRAP!! I didn't think there was that much power running to them things. I guess I need to revisit the wiring section at Lowe's eh? Is the dist block even neccessary then? Could the same be acheived with a connecting post? (assuming an inline fuse)



The routing through the relay is certainly part of the problem, maybe not all, but a large chunk of the problem. Get that thing completely out of the power wiring; it is just a fire waiting to happen... If youi want to use it for the remote lead, that is fine, but it has no business in the primary electrical circuit...
That thing is gone.

All this certainly could explain the issue.

[Razzman]

Let me throw this into the mix if i may and whether or not it helps i haven't a clue but i'm wired 4g off of the battery to the dist block and 8g to the amps. The two channel Orion has one 30amp fuse and the four channel Orion has dual 30amp fuses. The system sounds awesome without power issues or noise at all, running or not.

[philwsailz]

The remote wire on the stereo should be blue, or blue with a white stripe. Some radios (SONY) have a remote turn on lead AND a power antenna lead. In the old days these were interchangeable, but with SONY, occasionally I get to hear of stereos working fine with the radio on, but when a CD is inserted, the amplifier(s) shut off.

Get to your owner's manual, and determine which wire is the remote turn on lead; really, you should have one and it is probably blue.

That is the wire which should be connected to the tiny lug between the power and ground connections on the amplifiers.

I am going to try to post a pic from the 650.4 owner's manual:

[dogbert]

Just for the record, I used a premium Rockford Fosgate wiring kit. The power/ground was 2/0. The ground was only like 1' long, so I had to get a 2/0 battery cable made.

Better safe than sorry with electricity.

[jleger98]

Get to your owner's manual, and determine which wire is the remote turn on lead; really, you should have one and it is probably blue.

Then the one I'm thinking of is correct. Its blue with a white stripe.
Is there any issue with the HU switch wearing out? I think I read that could happen.


That is the wire which should be connected to the tiny lug between the power and ground connections on the amplifiers.
I am going to try to post a pic from the 650.4 owner's manual:

Where did you find that? as mine were factory refurbs they didn't come with a manual.

[philwsailz]

All this certainly could explain the issue.

Yeah, maybe so, the voltage is showing up, so the amps are not turning off, but you are severly curent limited in the relay.


As for the question re: buss bar vus. distribution block: I do not know the answer totally for sure, not without being able to take a look athe buss bar and it's capabilities, when compared with a distribution block.

The nice thing about distribution blocks is that when properly assembled and utilized, most are pretty insulated from short circuit possibilities; a lot of buss bars I have been around are not. that is fine really for the ground side, but definitely a no-no on the power side, (sorry Steven, you can't convince me otherwise).

How far is the battery from the amps? Wait, I remember, the batteries on a Tige are to port in the engine comnpartment. Hmmm... The wing nut at the battery is attached to a pretty good distribution lug; it is called the battery post. If you insist on using wire from your home supply center, it might be easier to find 4AWG than 0AWG there too... Despite the fact that the stuff you are buying there is not really what you ought to be using... If you wanted to completely remove the distribution block from the equation, just use option 1 above and pull unique power and gronds for both amplifiers back to the battery, each with its own fuse.

[philwsailz]

Where did you find that? as mine were factory refurbs they didn't come with a manual.

www.kicker.com

There is a good owner's manual section there:
go to SUPPORT
then TECHNICAL SUPPORT
then MANUALS
Pick your amp series, and then the language you prefer to read the manual in, then the specific amp you are curious about It will open as a .PDF file.

[philwsailz]

Then the one I'm thinking of is correct. Its blue with a white stripe.
Is there any issue with the HU switch wearing out? I think I read that could happen.



Not really; that is the correct way to do it, regardless...

[jleger98]

How far is the battery from the amps?

On my boat, the batteries are only about 4 or 5 feet from the amps on the port side in the storage compartment.

As far as where I get the wire, Lowes is close, and they have a huge variety. If its rubber coated, stranded, and big enough, I'm not sure its a big deal.

[philwsailz]

On my boat, the batteries are only about 4 or 5 feet from the amps on the port side in the storage compartment.

As far as where I get the wire, Lowes is close, and they have a huge variety. If its rubber coated, stranded, and big enough, I'm not sure its a big deal.

For that short a run, pull wire for each amp separate; less connections that way...


I hope we figured this one out!!!!!!

If not, you know how to get in touch...

[akdoc]

Wow, this is a long post. I will also say to not run anything to your ACC switch, you are going to get a ton of interference once you get the boat running. I made the mistake of doing that and had to rewire the amps. Use the remote turn on from the head unit. Also, as suggested somewhere in this post ground your head unit back to the battery, that is another source of interference. Good luck.

[jleger98]

Actually the 4g wire I have that I planned all along to use from the batt is actually from a pair of jumper cables that I found on sale. Very weatherproof, stranded cable. That should work nicely.

[spharis]

Looks like you are close to solving it, but I will interject a couple of points.

1. The West Marine relay you are using has a 30A rating on each circuit.
2. Buss-bars suck, go to the battery or add a distribution point. Even a lug would be better.
3. Never use the remote antenna (usually blue w/stripe) if you have a dedicated turn-on as it more than likely will turn off when you put a cd in.
4. Remote turn-on leads (usually blue, no stripe) are very low amperage. If driving more than 2 turn on circuits, use a relay.
5. Try to be sure if you have to cross your signal leads with power leads, you do so at 90's. This will prevent most interference.
6. On a run of 4-6 feet, you could ue 8AWG and be fine. 8AWG can carry 200A safely (~380MAX) at 5ft.
7. Use as short of wire as possible. Using 4AWG at a short run will cause more interference than using 8AWG for a similar length. The larger the cable, more resistance there is, and the more apt to absorb interference as well.
7. Run your battery turn on and main power lead on seperate wire entirely if possible. I have had issues with ground loop using the same wire.

[philwsailz]

Also, as suggested somewhere in this post ground your head unit back to the battery, that is another source of interference. Good luck.

Good suggestion, but I have a slightly better one. Ground the head unit literally right at the ground connection of the amp.

I know it makes no sense, as we can all seem to understand that ground is ground, and that it should not matter, as it is all connected/bonded together.

BUT with another marine manufacturer I work with, we have been fighting popping issues when accessory items were turned on and off. Grounding the head unit at the amp takes advantage of the huge power supply filtering that exists just inside the amp, and this solution provided the quietest isolation of the head unit's power from the rest of the boat's electrical system.

I know, it sounds goofy, but I would suggest that if anyone else has popping from courtesy lights, bilge pump / ballast pump switches, try it. It should provide a quieter system.

Any of you all, again, I know it sounds goofy, but before trying to justify or argue "ground is ground is ground" try it. I think more folks will be surprised than not.

[jleger98]

5. Try to be sure if you have to cross your signal leads with power leads, you do so at 90's. This will prevent most interference.

What if they run parallel to each other?

[chpthril]

What if they run parallel to each other?

"noise" will run in if bundled/run together.

[spharis]

You will pick up noise. It is a paramagnetic effect. All electrical current gives off a field or interference as current travels through it. You want to minimize the amount of interference in the line. Two things will help, keeping the point of x-over as small as possible, and making the x-over point so that a maximum amount of cancellation can occur. By hitting it at a 90, the x-over point is very small, and the possibility of cancellation is at its greatest.

[dogbert]

Some more suggestions:

1. Get a noise filter between your head unit and your amps, it will eliminate popping and whining (from your ignition).

2. Keep in mind that your ACC switch is also wired to the ignition and therefore will shut off while you're starting your boat. Again, the noise filter will fix any interference from this source.

3. You can't go wrong with heavier guage wire for power and ground. Better safe than sorry. Also, if you get braided wire, you get better shielding (yes, it affects power/ground and not just speaker wires).

[spharis]

Any of you all, again, I know it sounds goofy, but before trying to justify or argue "ground is ground is ground" try it. Not in a boat!! Grounding at the amp makes perfect sense.

[dogbert]

Not in a boat!! Grounding at the amp makes perfect sense.

I agree...you need to make sure your ground for your H/U is the exact same as the one for your amp or you will see voltage build-up between the two on the RCA lines.

[philwsailz]

"ground is ground is ground"

Wow, did you intentionally try to quote me out of context? :)

Just kidding. Seriously, just kidding :D

My point was to ask that nobody argue "ground is ground is ground", at least not in this instance. We can take advantage of the filtering that exists right there.

I agree with crossing at 90 as well. When not feasible or practical, running down opposite sides of the "vehicle" helps as well.

So if I were to elaborate and concur with you, if power HAS to cross signal, do so, or try to do so at 90 deg.
Avoid paralell runs of signal wire next to power wire, (or most any other wire for that matter).
In every instance try to remove the signal wire as far away from ANY other wire, unless by chance it is another signal wire, (like most RCA cables) :)

[jleger98]

So if I've followed all this correctly, I should rewire this as shown below, right?
Using 4g wire direct to the amps, and regular (14g) to the HU and remotes, right?

[spharis]

Only use 14AWG if the HU is in the glove box near the batteries, otherwise use 12AWG going across the boat, and 10AWG if going to the bow or stern then to the driver panel. On the 400.1 (??? is that right), you can get by with 8AWG on a run under 10ft; actually you could use 8AWG for both.

Rest of that gets a thumbsup.

[philwsailz]

So if I've followed all this correctly, I should rewire this as shown below, right?
Using 4g wire direct to the amps, and regular (14g) to the HU and remotes, right?

Good enough; that looks reasonable.

Just of you want to follow my advice, please fuse the amps with the apporpriate values shared earlier.

You could get away with wire smaller for 14AWG for non-power wiring, (i.e the remote turn on) but you have it anyway, right? :)
Go man go!

I am editing, and agree with Steven, big wire for the head unit power is appropriate if you have a long pull to the radio for its power. Sounds like you are considering it for the ground anyway, if you decide to ground to the amp's ground.

[jleger98]

Its about a 5 foot run from the batts to the HU. the batts are port side, the HU is SB side, right across from each other. The boat is 99" wide at the widest. I only say 14 cause thats what I have, but I can use 10, I have some of that as well.

[jleger98]

Thanks alot to all you guys. I'll get this rewired later this week and let you know how it goes. Hopefully it'll be as kicken as its supposed to be.

[spharis]

Use 14; it will be fine, and 10 would do worse than better.

[dogbert]

Thanks alot to all you guys. I'll get this rewired later this week and let you know how it goes. Hopefully it'll be as kicken as its supposed to be.

Let us know how it goes and just keep in mind, whatever it is, it can be fixed :D

[steves1967]

Hey real quick- I noticed you said LOWES was closed....(guessing that is where you are getting your wire) house wire and audio wire aren't really the same thing. You want wire with hundreds of strands in it, not the house wire which has 7-8 strands in it. House wire is too stiff and after awhile will break- had it happen to me in my car a long time ago. Not sure of battery cables- but if you really want to do it right head over to your local stereo shop and get good power cable....

[xpjim1]

So I am a complete newbie at this. What is the point of going + from battery thru ACC and to HU and also going directly from battery + to HU?

[spharis]

Only the radio acc wire goes through the ACC switch. A source unit has 2 power leads, one is straight up power....the main power. The other is a turn on wire to turn the unit on. When a source unit gets current on this wire, it powers on. It is a built in relay to control the radio power on/off.

[jleger98]

So I am a complete newbie at this. What is the point of going + from battery thru ACC and to HU and also going directly from battery + to HU?

Basically this allows you to keep your station presets and other settings in your HU. If you don't have this "always on" power, you have to reprogram your HU every time you turn it on.

[xpjim1]

Thanks. I knew there was a good reason for this:)

[jleger98]

ok, fine, you guys guilted me into it. I just bought some 1666 strand 4GA wire, and 80/40amp fuses and holders for 4GA wire (and connectors) Its an extra 80 bux I didn't want to spend, but from what I hear, its all worth it.

So I'll have it by this weekend. Gee thanks guys ;)

[dogbert]

We're just here to help.....you part with your money :D

[chpthril]

Hey real quick- I noticed you said LOWES was closed....(guessing that is where you are getting your wire) house wire and audio wire aren't really the same thing. You want wire with hundreds of strands in it, not the house wire which has 7-8 strands in it. House wire is too stiff and after awhile will break- had it happen to me in my car a long time ago. Not sure of battery cables- but if you really want to do it right head over to your local stereo shop and get good power cable....

I buy all my speaker wire at Lowes. They are much cheaper than Best Buy or Circut City. :cool:

[jleger98]

No worries. Its just money. When this is pounding away out on the lake this summer, trust me, 80 bux won't matter. Especially after paying that much to just to fill the tank. :mad: :D

[dogbert]

No worries. Its just money.

You can always make more. The best use of money is when you use it to eliminate stress so you can finally relax! I ask myself this question whenever I'm about to drop some $$ on my toys or a vacation.

[jleger98]

Amen Dog!!

[jleger98]

Hey, I was just reading my owners manual for my HU, and it states there is an orange/white lead "To lighting switch terminal"

What is that for? can this HU turn lights on/off?

Also it does state that there is a blue/white for "To system control terminal of the power amp or Auto-antenna relay control terminal (max. 300mA 12 V DC)", so that part will be fine.

[chpthril]

Hey, I was just reading my owners manual for my HU, and it states there is an orange/white lead "To lighting switch terminal"

What is that for? can this HU turn lights on/off?

Also it does state that there is a blue/white for "To system control terminal of the power amp or Auto-antenna relay control terminal (max. 300mA 12 V DC)", so that part will be fine.

Might be for turning the back-light on when the nav/anchor lights are on or work on a dimmer like in an auto.


The blue-wt sounds like it would work for either an amp or antenna. Like Philwsailz said, some "antenna" leads turn off when you switch to CD or AUX.

[spharis]

Hey, I was just reading my owners manual for my HU, and it states there is an orange/white lead "To lighting switch terminal"

What is that for? can this HU turn lights on/off?

Also it does state that there is a blue/white for "To system control terminal of the power amp or Auto-antenna relay control terminal (max. 300mA 12 V DC)", so that part will be fine.

Orange/white is an illumination wire. Usually this would be connected to the headlamps, or dash lights, so at night the radio lighting will dim. It cannot be used to control anything, as it is a sense. When it gets current, it dims the Source Unit. If the owner's manual says the blue/white can be used for a relay control, then you can use it. If you have a dedicated remote power, you should use it for standards reasons.

[Domsz06]

Just for the record, I used a premium Rockford Fosgate wiring kit. The power/ground was 2/0. The ground was only like 1' long, so I had to get a 2/0 battery cable made.

Better safe than sorry with electricity.


I always use over kill on the power wire. I realize I'm chiming in late here but I would for sure use 0 gauge. I'm using it on mine, and may have to find a bigger then 0, not sure though where to get it, but guess we will see how 0 goes.

[Domsz06]

ok, on a side note to ask a question regarding this instal. Since I"m running six amps I should relay the amp turn on lead? IE, from the head unit, to the relay, then to the amps?

Thanks.

[spharis]

Yes, you should relay anything over 2. Remote turn ons are usually very low amperage. So low that the draw to send signal to 6 amps would cause issues....might as well take care of it while you are in the hatch vs. having to go in again.

[Domsz06]

Sweet, ok. I'll do that. That wouldn't create an issue with amps running hot would it? as I have one split into four amps now would it?

[philwsailz]

Sweet, ok. I'll do that. That wouldn't create an issue with amps running hot would it? as I have one split into four amps now would it?

Good mornign everyone!

Dom-

You should have no overheating issue at the amps caused by your remote turn on wiring.
The biggest concern you have is messing up the HU's remote turn-on circuit. Not saying you will, but following Spharis' advice regarding using a relay is a prudent thing to do.

Most all of them will not handle a load of more than half an amp, and lots of them will only handle 300 mA

[Domsz06]

cool, thanks for the good advice. Sorry to kinda of get it off of your topic Jl, I"ll quit now.

[jleger98]

No prob dude.

[Domsz06]

Thanks

[dogbert]

Sweet, ok. I'll do that. That wouldn't create an issue with amps running hot would it? as I have one split into four amps now would it?

No, but we can blame you for global warming :D

[Domsz06]

Dog,

Go for it. I'll take the blame for the world being a jacked up issue!!:)

[jleger98]

Finished "re" installing the system with 4/8 guage wire, and the new wiring as per the wiring diagram we came up with. Got a 60A AGU fuse inline for the sub-amp and a 100A MAXI inline for the main amp (spec says should be 80A - All I had was a 100A)

HOLY S#$% is it LOUD :ro: :ro: :ro: !!! The sub sounds fantastic, and everything works nicely.

Only thing is that the speakers don't sound as clean as I think they should. I used 14 (I think) guage wire, where I should probably be using 12 or 10. Two of the runs are 15+ feet. I'll see if I can get some wire tomorrow and rewire those.

Also, found out that the battery I had (from a UPS at work that was never used) won't hold a charge, so I guess I'm off to Costco too.

Either way, it friggin rocks now :ro: :ro: :ro:

Thanks for all the help from you guys (and gals??)

[Razzman]

JL, just as an FYI i'm using 16ga throughout mine for the cabin and tower speakers and i have no issue with poer or clarity and i know i have a couple runs of at least 15 feet. I would double check your amp settings just to be sure before you go and replace the speaker wire. Also, when you adjusted the amp did you have all the settings on the head unit set to null or their defeated/minimum settings before adjusting?

[jleger98]

Good thought. I'll check.

[jleger98]

Had to go to Costco and get a new battery. The one I had was dead. I got the 115amp hour version, instead of the 55Amp version (the blue one)

Seems like a no-brainer, but I know some others here swear by the blue ones.

[Domsz06]

glad you got it all to work out!!!

[jleger98]

yeah, I'm really happy with it. Can't wait to get it on the water!!