? about tige and their direction

[aneal000]

Hello everyone, it is great to see another boat manufacture come online with a website like this. I have been around the industry for a while now and have been following tige and all the other manufactures for that matter for a long time. I have some concerns that I hope someone on this site could help me with.

I just received my latest issue of Wakeboard Mag, and went thru the big 6 page ad that Tige has in there. I must say I am concerned with Tige's marketing department and the contradicting statements they release.

When they talk about wakeboarding wakes they claim they don't need "drag hardware" to create them. Now am I mistaken or does Tige have a trademark on the TAPS system? And I believe the TAPS "wakeplate" gets drug behind the boat? Please explain?

They also state that due to the weight of the boat (heavy) it is unnecessary to add ballast tanks or bags. But then in the TAPS wake chart they say for professional level wakes/tricks that you should add ballast. Wait! Dosen't everyone want professional level wakes? Even if you are not doing KGB 5's you probably still want the pro level wakes to help you with your 3's or backrolls or big laid out grabs...! It just seems this type of marketing is contradicting and confusing.

What about the new series of boat? For years and years Tige has been spoon feeding us on how much far superior of a product the Tige is due to their manufacturing process and the use of their treated wood materials they use. The wood made the boats! Period! Now they have joined the ranks of every other manufacture out there and have gone away from wood! What gives? Is the boat I bought last year a piece since you now realized that wood isisn't the best material to use? What about everything your sales force has been telling us for years? How the all fibergalss boats are not as strudy, not as strong, will fall apart, etc... now you come to market with this? What are we to think?

Tige, you are confusing your customer base, you are putting questions in the heads of potential buyers and you are speaking out of both sides of your head. Please help shed some light on only a few of the issues I pointed out.

Regards,
Tony

[Ruune]

And I believe the TAPS "wakeplate" gets drug behind the boat? Please explain?

TAPS is actually a trim tab, which is attached to the boat. Basically, its an adjustable extension of the hull- nothing hangs down, nor is it dragged behind the boat.

They also state that due to the weight of the boat (heavy) it is unnecessary to add ballast tanks or bags.

wake size and shape are going to be personal preference, and usually based on rider skill level. You dont want newer riders hitting weighted TAPS tuned wakes. Plus it's better to learn to clear wake to wake on a smaller one, to get the basics down.


now you come to market with this? What are we to think?


The main reason for this is market pressure. Tigé sells itself as an innovative company, and being as such they have to stay at or ahead of the curve. I've driven a '97 pre 2105WT (not sure about the model number), and '03 22v, and an '04 22v. Personally I can tell a diff between all three stringer designs- in that how solid the hull feels. Whether or not your old boat is a "piece," more or less depends on how you take care of it- just because you dont have the latest and greatest doesnt mean that the previous years' models are worthless. Honestly, some of the best wakes I've seen are old SN2001s, and they've got plenty of wood!

Put simply, manufacturers have to keep up with the market or get left behind. This is simple marketing- look at the car industry... not to mention the computer industry!

[BC06]

Tony,

I don't work for Tige but I'd like to give you my thoughts on your post.

1. I agree that there are some conflicting inferences to their wakes. I believe their intent is that TAPS/convex hull allows for usable slalom wakes and substantial board wakes without adding ballast; you can choose to add ballast for circus tricks but you don't have to. I'm pretty sure that has as much to do with hull shape as it does weight. That is huge for me because my last boat required hundreds of pounds of ballast to make even miniscule wakes. I am very happy that I don't have to deal with water pumps, lead, or a wedge in order to have a versatile towboat.

2. Tige used wood since the company's inception. All of the reasons for using wood are still valid. They recently incorporated a brand new composite that they think works even better. Nike uses air pockets, Asics uses gel, New Balance uses foam and there are runners from each camp willing to swear theirs is the best. Who knows? Regardless, Tige backs their hulls with a pretty good warranty.

This probably doesn't make you feel any better about your questions. I have noticed the same inconsistencies in their marketing but feel Tige still fits my needs.

Good luck.

[aneal000]

Ruune, thanks for taking the time to respond, but your comments also make very little sense, you must of attended the same marketing school the guys at Tige went to.

You state that the TAPS is an extenstion of the hull but yet it does not get drug behind the boat? Well since the hull ends at the transom and this attaches to the transom I am very much confused with your comment. It is quite apparent that is a type of "Drag hardware".

I agree with your second comment about wake size and shape being personal preference and that you want a new boarder to learn on smaller wakes, however if you look at the chart that Tige publishes they tell you unless you are doing the best of the best tricks that it is unnecessary to even put the taps system in the full wakeboard mode, much less add additional ballast! This is crazy talk I'll tell you! You find me any wakeboard school that teaches you to go learn a backroll, tantrum, whatever it is you want to learn (beyond the basics) and use a small wake to do it. It goes against everything our sport is about. You don't hit small wakes. You hit big ones. Why would you not trim the TAPS system to full wakeboard when you were trying a scarecrow? Because you are not ready for that big of a wake? Give me a break!

Once again you lost me on your third comment. You state that Tige has removed the wood from their boats to stay ahead of the other manufactures. And this is driven by market pressure and the fact that Tige is an innovative company? But isin't Tige the last manufacture (in the inboard market) to remove the wood? How is this innovative or staying ahead of the curve?

"Honestly, some of the best wakes I've seen are old SN2001s, and they've got plenty of wood!" ... so should we think that since a boat, in your honest opinion has wood and a good wake that it is good? Then that would mean that the new Tige's have poor wakes in your opinion? Again you are just as confusing as Tige.

Then your last statement contradicts your previous, "manufactures have to keep up or get left behind" so Tige was getting left behind? They only changed to keep up, it had nothing to do with the fact that they couldn't get people to understand that wood was better than fiberglass, or is it? Once again I am still confused...

Thanks for your attempt!

[Nautiques]

Aneal,
I have to agree with you. I talked to a tige rep this past weekend. He told me that people don't like dealing with pumping water in and out of the boat, etc. If they don't then why don't you stop offering it? They also gave me the whole story about not needing ballast. In my eye, it should be presented that "our wakes are big with the use of TAPS but for those of you wanting bigger wakes, we offer additional ballast tanks" or something of that nature. And to hit this again, they didn't just have 2 or 3 tanks in the boat but they had 4.
I also didn't like the no option for locks on the trunk and the bifold door in the 22v that I looked at. That was pretty cheap looking. The guy also let the cat out of the box about the quality of the carpet.
I don't agree with the approach to the warranty either. They claim that they have never had a failure which is great but.... They have only been building boats since 1991. There are boats that were built in the 80's that are just now starting to show problems with bad stringers. If they get through it without any problems, that is great and I give them credit for it but I think it is a little too soon to make statements like that and have them be valid.

Just for knowledge, I do not work for correct craft or any of its dealers!

[Domsz06]

The warrenty is awesome on tige's, I mean if my hull goes bad, they not only give me a new boat, but also 10 grand in cash, how could I go wrong with that. Right they are a new company, but i signed the papers and now have the warranty so who cares.

Part of Tige's problem is that they are just now advertising. I mean I had never heard of one till a friend bought one. Then I started looking. They DON"T advertise. So now they are trying to advertise and they mess up. Who cares. The way I look at is that they have a nice boat. They thought that word of mouth alone would carry them, but now they want more of the market so they are trying to advertise. They will work the kinks out.

Everyone is entitled to think what they want, that's what living in America is all about. Who gives two flips about the advertising, if you have the cash, go and drive the boat's, and try them out. Then buy the one you like. Don't be influenced by someone else's words, just make up your own mind.

As for the wake size and stuff, I have been beside a mastercraft, my tige and a wakesetter. I don't know what weight the other boats had in theirs, but mine was just as big if not bigger and I had no weight in it. I know they had weight in theirs because I saw them pumping it out.

Anyway, I don't read the ads, so I Have no idea what your talking about, just giving my .02 and stepping off my soapbox now.

Dom

[Domsz06]

Oh yeah,

hull design does make a difference in wakes, simple physics will you tell you that. Tige has designed boats so that you can ski, and wakeboard. I think that is awesome. I know the wake is nice on skiing as well as boarding. From what my second father says(Hi wayne) the tige has just a nice o wake as a malibu, but the malibu is just a touch softer. So it all just comes back down to test drive and personal preferance. Me, i went with the tige for the warrenty, and the deal I got. FOr you, well that's your own decision. I plan on keeping my boat till it's way old(don't have the money to buy another one, I'm just a student), so that's why I bought mine

Dom

[spooner]

to me there is a big differenc between a wedge and a trim tab. the wedge hangs more than a foot below the bottom of the hull and is fairly heavy. taps adjusts the heigth of the bow in turn makeing the stern sit lower in the water giving more wake

[aneal000]

dom... I'm not trying to bash anyone here. Customers or Tige, I am just wondering what they are trying to do, what direction they are trying to take. Your comments about them not advertising? I have seen them in Waterski mag for as far back as I can remember... Maybe they weren't advertising?

So if you say they are trying something new (ie advertising) and since it is new for them it is ok to screw it up? You think that is the same approach they let their engineers take when designing their boats, what about the guys building them... oh, don't yell at John, it's ok for him to screw it up, it is new to him! "So what!" is your answer! It scares me that if Tige puts that kind of effort into their advertising then what are they putting into their boats. Last time I checked a company is made up of all of the employees. Remember the team?

I don't know what they are thinking or the direction they are trying to go. I see the same ads that everyone else sees. You would be a fool to argue that advertising dosen't work. You can't or don't read the ads, well ok. Everyone else does, and with confusing ads, confusing and contradicting sales stratigies, and ads that don't make sense is a sure fire way NOT to gain market share. And I don't think that is what they are trying to do. So I ask one more time for some clarification. Thanks!

[spooner]

it is also my understanding that the new replacement composite is better than wood,fiberglass,or hollow stringers that other companys use.

[aneal000]

spooner, I'll agree there is a big difference between a wedge and the TAPS. I never tried to compare the two. Only thing I said was that tige is saying they don't need "Drag Hardware" when they have a piece of metal that they drag around every lake are river they are put on! Would you say that it is not drag hardware because it is not under the water? What about a tuber? You drag tubers around behind the boat and they are on top of the water? All I am saying is Tige ads are very confusing to the general public.

[spooner]

lets agree to disagree. dont just read the ads. drive the boat on your lake. ride the wake and make your decision. i did this and chose tige because of the rough water we frequently deal with.

[Domsz06]

aneal,

I'm not trying to argue. I'm just stating what I feel about tige, we do live in america, so I can do that. As for taps, they are not dragged behind the boat. they are attached to the hull and pushed down. To me dragged is something like a wakeboarder, dragged. As far as your comments on engineers, I do believe engineers make what is a prototype, and well, those do fail, you don't learn with out failure. As for advertising, they just brainstorm and go out and try what they think will work. I have taken classes in both, and am now working on my engineering degree. Stuff failes, that's the whole point of life. Tige is trying something new, it's not working. Accept it. I agree with spooner, get out, try the boat and get what you like. I bought tige because of the deal, the ride, the price, the wake, and I liked it. If you buy one great, if you buy a x-10, great, at least we can all get out and enjoy gods gift to earth of water. So get what you like, and go have fun.

[Ruune]

my apologies... I was trying to communicate this AM through the fog otherwise known as Tussinex (robitussin w/ hydrocodone and other goodies) and antihistamines...

Lets see if I can put what I was trying to say in to english this time...

Drag hardware- my impression of this is an object permanently fixed to the boat (adjustable or not), which hangs below the hull in an effort to increase hydrodynamic drag. While you are "dragging" a tuber, and this same tuber is going to increase hydrodynamic drag, the tube is not permanently attached to the boat. Additionally, I wouldnt necessarily call a tube "hardware." It is also my belief that Tigé is directly addressing the wedge with this marketing campaign.

Regarding them being the last ones to switch from wood, they are actually the only ones using the Penske Xtreme composites. They are also the first (to my knowledge) to cure the main parts of the hull together, in order to increase strength.

My comment regarding the older SN2001s wasnt intended to say that newer boats have inferior wakes- I was trying to illustrate that stringer material doesnt have an effect on wake performance. Only strength. It could be argued that a stronger hull will support heavier ballast, but thats outside the scope of what I was trying to say.

About ballast- I do agree with you re: the way they advertise about not needing ballast, then going on to say that you can do all these tricks with different setting seems a bit excessive. Personally, I dont think that TAPS makes a vast difference in the size of the wake- only shape. Also, WHEN you're running ballast, it's awesome for controlling porpoising. This being said, I feel that they should have addressed that as an advantage instead... since I have yet to see anyone w/ TAPS pull a wakeboarder with it set anything lower than the highest.

lets agree to disagree. dont just read the ads.

Amen to that! Marketing people (in general) tend to sensationalize product features. Its what they were trained to do, and is what they are paid to do.

[Nautiques]

Originally posted by domslude
aneal,

Stuff failes, that's the whole point of life. Tige is trying something new, it's not working. Accept it.

Enough said!

[OldSkier]

I think we shoud recognize what kind of web-forum this is....it's a Tige web forum. Kind of like we've been invited to a party by Tige folks (not the company, but Tige folks none-the-less). That means we owe respect to our hosts.

That means that although we should be able to "discuss" many things, we should steer clear of anything that appears to "slam" Tige, their boats or their marketing/sales strategy. If we own other boats, that's fine, but this is not the place to pick apart Tige.

having said that, we CAN ask very probing questions. Ask for clarification on "strategic direction", designs, etc etc. Why....? Because, as skiers/boarders, we're ALWAYS looking at ski/board boats. ALWAYS considering our "next" boat. Who knows when that boat owner will change companies, and go MC or CC or Malibu or Tige or Moomba etc ....or any of the great tow-boats.

However, Tige owners (and/or the company) should also be "open" to challenging questions. Not "dig their heels" in because they made a Tige decisions.

It's this "open" questioning and responding that drives the manufacturers to recognize what's important to their customers. They are businesses. They HAVE to be market driven,or they perish.

Conclusion: Challenging questioning and answers are ok, but respect for our "hosts".

From.... just another member on this site.

[aneal000]

OldSkier, I hope you are not suggesting that I am bashing Tige? I am asking a challenging question that so many of the owners cannot accurately answer due to the emotional ties of ownership. I respect this and every other forum out there. It is a great place for a wealth of information. If fact one of my first posts was to thank Matt Garcia for putting together a great site. I can respect your attempt to keep this site a positive site, however every product has issues and having a place to discuss those issues is awesome. Have you visited any of the other boat sites? You think they are all sugar coated "my boat is the best, if you don't like it leave" sites? No, they aren't. They allow, discuss, argue, point out, bring emotion, logic, reality, and hard facts into each discussion. Some people get bent out of shape, some people leave with a better understanding. I hope the best for this site and Tige as a manufacture.

I ask a few questions that are so blaentely obvious it's not funny. So far the answers to my questions have been weak at best:

"Stuff failes, that's the whole point of life. Tige is trying something new, it's not working. Accept it."

Think about the people that support that type of thinking! Maybe Tige should use that as their company motto. Anyone ever heard the cliche, something like... failure to plan is planning to fail, switch that around and it still works... planning to fail is failure to plan. Yeah stuff fails, everyone knows that, but you should not have to accept it from any manufacture.

[Banks]

I agree with you old skier, and i also think that we get enough flok from everyone else. I would hope that those on this site owning a Tige' would realize this is our one place where we are the top dogs and it's our boat that is the best. If you don't like Tige' and their ways don't support them and don't buy a boat. I love my Tige' and the company, and it's my dream boat and nothing will change that. So if all you want to do is bash Tige' you need to know exactly what you are talking about, it is very clear you that you base your arguments on no research. So get yourself a different kind of boat and go to a new website where that sort of thing is accepted, because the people there don't know anything about Tige' either. And, if it was such a terrible boat people wouldn't talk so much trash about it. People like to talk trash about things they uneducated about, or things that they are jealous of.
Take your pick.
http://hometown.aol.com/bankshf

[Banks]

Obviously it is working and not failing since
"TIGÉ CONFIRMS 2003 ITS BEST RETAIL YEAR EVER"
read the article if you like
its also on Tige'.com at the website under news

"ABILENE, TEXAS-Oct. 2, 2003- Tigé Boats, Inc. has reported a three-percent increase in market share since last year, while sustaining a 10 percent increase in retail registration returns since 2000, when sales last set a Tigé record. Out of the seven top manufacturing watersport boat companies, Tigé has maintained the second largest market share gain of 2003.

"When we combine national retail registration numbers from all states, our export business and our Australian Manufacturing facility, Tigé's total annual sales for 2003 clearly put us in the top five watersport manufacturers," said Vice President of Sales and Marketing Brett Thurley. "We already know that 2003 is a record sales year from a retail standpoint and we are projecting $26 million in wholesale for this calendar year."

Since the 2004 Tigé line was launched in August, the Tigé dealer network has virtually no 2003 product remaining on dealers' lots. This is a direct reflection of retail sales being at an all-time high and an indication as to why Tigé was able to secure a record number of winter orders at the 2004 Tigé Dealer Meeting.

"The record retail sales plus our low field inventory means a very healthy dealer network across the board," Thurley explained. "Also, we are very excited about our new dealers who have been added to our network for 2004. They are all premium dealers,"

Tigé credits their success to the expansion of their dealer network, their LifePlus Warranty and the superior performance of their ConvexV continuous rocker hull which was introduced with their 2003 Tigé line. The revolutionary hull design is known for its watersport versatility, superior boarding and skiing wake characteristics and helping Tigé become the world's premier wakesurfing boat.

For 2004, Tigé has engineered all of their models with the ConvexV hull and TAPS² wake adjustment system, along with the breakthrough all-composite LifePlus Core construction process. In Addition, Tigé has introduced their value-driven Switch Series.

Since its conception in 1991, Tigé Boats, Inc. has revolutionized the family towboat industry and continues to be dedicated to engineering versatile watersport boats of the finest quality with a family-oriented design. Tigé strives to maximize inboard versatility, while using innovative technology to improve overall watersport performance. Tigé is headquartered in Abilene, Texas, and their website can be found at www.tige.com."

[jeffro]

aneal000

it seems like most of your questions have been answered, what is it that has not been answered? or that you feel has not been answered?

please explain, after re-reading your first post, i'm not really sure what you don't understand or did not get a logical answer to. I'd like to try and help out here.

[aneal000]

Calm down Banks... No one is saying Tige is not one of the top manufactures. No one is arguing that.

You also say that to come and bash Tige you better have your facts straight? Please show me where anyone is bashing the company or the boats? I have been asking about their stratagies? Questioning the logic of what they have put in print. No bashing, just questioning. I would think that a group of Tige owners would want to go out of their way to help explain to a new potential buyer what they are doing, or why they are doing something. Last time I checked a discussion board was just that, a board open for discussion. Why is it that anyone has to have their facts staright? I have come to you guys for the answers, not to put down the product!

[malibu3]

Aneal has some very valid points with the confusion in advertising from Tige. I like the ad they had with people fishing off the Tige, is it a fishing boat or a wakeboard boat. Next thing you know Bass Pro Shop will be dropping Tracker for the new improved Tige (WITH NO WOOD) HOORAY! I echo comments made by aneal and I believe he is trying to open discussion.

Last year at the boat show the Tige represenative told me how much wood was better than all fiberglass boats but guess what? They finally caught up. Bottom Line guys Tige does have a nice boat if competing with a Moomba but can not hold a candle to the BIG THREE. Malibu, Nautiqe and Mastercraft.

Just my .02, leave it lay if you must!

MALIBU3
:)

[Banks]

look if you really want to know Tige' go to their site read all you can and call up a dealer and ask for a video on Tige' it will answer most questions.

[BC06]

a) on THIS site, has a malibu/CC/MC, criticizing Tige: insecure

b) on THIS site, doesn't own a boat, criticizing Tige: poser


both types: I would rather you go blurt your propaganda on another site, nobody here cares; we've already made our decision (note the address here). The other sheep are waiting for you at wakeworld.com. Have a nice day.

[Jeff]

aneal000, malibu3:

As I am sure Tige appreciates your insight on what in your opinion is bad marketing. I am sure that the both of you would not just post what you feel is bad with Tige’s marketing but both probably have college degrees in marketing, and were just getting around to suggesting how you would change it to make it easier for all to understand. Lets do be different and keep this a positive forum!! As a Tige dealer we feel that Tige’s marketing has come leaps and bounds from five years ago and are excited about what new things Tige has going on (Taps 2, convex V hull, Penske Extreme coring ). In regards to the kids fishing off the side of the boat, it was not the intent of Tige to market a boat for fishing, but Tige’s have always been a boat that is very appealing for the family, with wider boats and deeper boats, and as families sometimes have kids, and some of these kids are not always wanting to just wakeboard, ski or tube.

By the way it was kids fishing not Jimmy Houston in a Bass tournament.

Patiently awaiting your positive suggestions for future marketing.

Jeff

[malibu3]

I do not mean to make my comments negative and I did not say Tige made a bad boat. Here is what I am trying to imply:
You want people to see your boat as being a leader in the wakeboarding industry but ads with people fishing?
As a watersport enthusiast no matter what your discipline you want what the pros use, right? Example the incredible wakes of a tournament slalom boat, so you buy that boat to experience those incredible wakes that the pros are slicing through on the tournament on your TV.
With Wakeboarding it is much the same. You by a boat because that is what the pros ride behind Tige "Official TowBoat of the U.S. Open Wakeboard Championships". But in order to experience the wake that they are riding you have to add ballast, but the marketing says do not add ballast. Are you telling me your team riders are taking their tricks big without ballast? No of Course not. Why do I want a Pro Level Wakeboard boat? U guessed it because I want to take my tricks big!

I have no problem with the product but the marketing strategy is terrible. Do I have a degree as a marketing anaylyst? NO! But u know what I am, I am a consumer! I am the person the company has to convince. The people that are buying the boats!

Malibu3

[Banks]

Any good rider will tell you that no matter what the boat tricks can be done. I guess you have never seen the seadoo com where pros are thowing all their big tricks behind a jetski.
Heck man i can throw everything i have behind a jetski except a front flip. I learned how to do a backroll behind a jon boat. don't tell me crap like you have to have ballast to cut inverts, its not the truth and you know it. and wanna know what i throw check out my web site. and by the way all my pics are from riding behind a 1996 four winns before i got my Tige' this December, and there was not ballast in that boat or fat sacs, just plane boat. not to mention Tige' isn't only trying to sell to the wakeboard market. there is more money to be made selling to a larger part of the market than just a small part.
http://hometown.aol.com/bankshf

[aneal000]

Jeff, thanks for your somewhat sincere response. I can't speak for the malibu3 character but I can say that I do not hold a marketing degree. I am merely a watersports enthuisest that has been around the industry for years and have had the opportunity to use a lot of the products that have been put to market. I'm always willing to freely share my experiences with the industry on any internet site, so long as my input is appreciated. I felt strongly that Tige was confusing the customers with their marketing, saying one thing and then the opposite. It dosen't take a marketing major to see that. I came to this site to see if anyone esle shared the same feelings? But everyone here immediatly jumped on the defense and thought I was bashing the product. Put your defenses down for a second and see what they are doing. If any of you were to actually read what I am saying, it should be quite clear what my suggestions would be. I would think every owner would want their boat company to become stronger and gain an even larger market share, not just tell people off because they question something Tige has done.

[malibu3]

Banks,
I am not arguing with you on whether or not you "can" throw tricks. My point is that if I am dropping the cash for a "Pro" Level wakeboard boat i want it to throw out some big wakes. If I am only buying a Jon boat I do not expect big wakes, I expect to make the best of what I have.

You guys are a little to sensitive. This is a discussion forum and not everything about any company can be completely positive. I can find fault with any of the boat manufactures that you guys care to discuss!

Anyway, Congrats Tige on opening up a way to learn about what your consumers want. Unless everyone here just blows sunshine up your ___ all day!

Anyway
Nice to meet everyone, I am done ranting now!
Malibu3

[aneal000]

Hey banks, you are taking this awfuly personal. I don't think anyone cares about your personal level of wakeboarding in this thread? I'm not going around flaunting my abilities, other than to say I have been around. You stated in another thread on this site that you haven't even rode behind any other wakeboard boats. You lose a lot of credit right there in my mind as a "source of information". What are you making your comparisons to? A jet boat? A seedoo? A john boat? An old I/O? Sounds like what everyone is interested in, since that is right up there in the runnings for my next boat purchase! Sure, any good wakeboarder will say they don't NEED a big wake. But last time I checked everyone sure did WANT one!

[aneal000]

banks, sorry, that was not you that made that statement in the other thread. I apologize.

[OldSkier]

Gotta jump in again.

(By the way, I am NOT a Tige boat owner. I might be some day.... maybe never. But that's not the point.)

Posing seemingly "non-bashing" questions about "marketing" of Tige on a User Forum is addressing your questions to the wrong address. Yes, other Tige owners and potential Tige owners may be "interested".... but unless Tige is "answering", you're just stirring up the pot. AND, for Tige to jump in and answer (defend or explain) is also not a fair expectation. For this site to be a "users' forum, it CAN'T have Tige jumping in all the time.... unless specifically requested by the Tige Forum organizers... because then visiotrs would accuse Tige of creatring another "marketing" outlet, not a User forum.

Re the comment about Tige having people "fishing" off their boat in an ad. This absolutely not the place to voice your disparaging comment like that. Whether a good idea or a silly idea, this is NOT the place to voice. That little dig is out-of-line.

A forum is kind of like a "fan-club". It's for fans, not skeptics!

Sharing experiences..... providing valuable informatio.... that's the objective. Not asking questions that other "users" can't answer, or poking fun at ads. If you want a question answered from Tige, send them an email off-line. If you want to bash.... or even come close, this is not the place.

[Banks]

i have ridin hum lets see behind my friends X2 anothers super air nautique, anothers supra, and another's malibu (not to mention we swap off which boat we ride behind) so until you have your own get off your high horse. I'd say those boats cover the wakeboard market pretty well.

[Cheeky]

Comparing a Tige to Moomba... That's funny.. Usually I hear Malibu and Moomba compared....

[Banks]

lol

[Cheeky]

of course, I could be really insulting and say Malibu vs Gekko, but I'm a nice guy...

[aneal000]

old skier, I must disagree with your comments about the use of boards such as this. I know for a fact that manufactures monitor these type of boards. They usually don't post, but they are in the background reading what is going on and what people have to say. As much as you would like this to be a *** kissing site you should face the reality that people are going to post anything they feel is appropriate, weahter it be good or bad. I have already explained the intent of this post, and it was not to stir the pot, but rather bring light to an issue.


banks, I thought it was you that posted about not riding behind any other boat, I have already apologized for my mistake. Maybe you should get down off your high horse.

[Banks]

i appreciate the appology

[Cheeky]

Maybe you should bring light of these facts to wakeboarder.com, they like them.

People here are not a$$ kissing Tige, do you see anyone asking Tige for anything? People signed up here because they enjoy their boats and tired of others talking smack (not aimed at you, but 90% of the time it is uninformed stupid talk).

Is a trim tab drag hard ware? To drag, shouldn't the item PULL DOWN? The Taps system takes a hull design that would sit low in the water and RAISES the rear up. The hull design causes the rear to sink, not Taps.

[aneal000]

Per www.dictionary.com

drag ( P ) Pronunciation Key (drg)
v. dragged, drag·ging, drags
v. tr.
To trail along the ground: The dog's leash dragged on the sidewalk.


But you guys obviously see it differently...

[tigebill]

Not to get anything started here because I do sell Tige's but do aneal and malibu3 even own a boat or do you guys or gals just sell them.
At least be honest about who you are and fill in your profile. It may help us to better understand some of the comments that you are making or on the other hand, may just confuse the crap out of us as to why you are even here.

[OldSkier]

To aneal000. Let'smake this a positive site.

Also, please read the TITLE of the site. It is "TigeOwners.com - The Official TeamTige OwnersPortal". There's a key word here, "OWNER".

If you're not a Tige owner, you're a guest. You shouldn't be overstepping your privelege of chatting here. A Tige owner has eranedmuch more right in asking pointed questions than a guest.

Consider this scenario. You've been invited out on a friend's boat to ski/board. He just happens to drive a Tige. You own a NON-Tige. It is NOT the place to ask questions about why Tige markets this way or that. If I was the owner, you'd be dropped off at the dock. On the other hand, if you were a fellow Tige owner, I believe you would have earned the right to have that conversation with the boat owner.

Same question. First example, you're really overstepping to courtesy/invitation to the party. Second example, you're probably ok.

Re Tige watching, sure they are....that's not the point.

If you're Malibu, or CC or Mastercraft owner and belong to "their"site, ask yourself.... how'd you feel with these kind of questions from somebody who doesn't own "your"selection of boat. You'd accept the questions from somebody who owns "your" model boat a LOT easier than a Tige owner coming on board and asking the same questions.

Net, come on, be nice.....I suspect you're a guest. (and not a true Tige "owner")

lastly, I also understand by now, you're one of these folks who always has to have the last word. Maybe you feel you earned the right because you started the thread. Maybe. Fine. But, I'm done. If you don't understand by now, you won't ever. I'd still let you off at the dock for going on and on and on and on.....

[tigebill]

I second that. Very well put Oldskier!

[Jeff]

aneal000


The Taps plate works as part of the running surface of the boat, at wakeboard speeds with the Taps plate up it creates rocker in the running surface of the boat, and with the Taps plate down it creates hook in the hull and creates lift on the transom at higher speeds. The plate is not on a dog leash being dragged, the wedge is being dragged, would you consider the wing flap on an airplane to be dragged through the air??

[Ruune]

aneal... scroll down on www.dictionary.com definition #9n. :
"The retarding force exerted on a moving body by a fluid medium such as air or water. "

Since we're tallking about hydrodynamics, this is what I relate to this situation. TAPS doesnt directly increase hydrodynamic drag. Diverts moving water (i.e. "thrust") to change the attitude of the hull... which in turn may or may not effect the drag coefficient of the boat itself. That depends on the "angle of attack" the boat holds through the water and how much of the hull is actually moving through the water itself.

In contrast to the TAPS system, from what I've seen of wakeplates- they actually hang lower than the hull and physically increase the drag coefficient of the boat.

[aneal000]

tigebill, I have owned many boats in the past. As of today I do own a malibu. The current boat I own should be irrelevant to the posts I have made. I have at no time directly compared any boat to the Tige or in any way made any boat out to be better than any other. I did this so it wouldn't turn into a boat war. I am not interested in calling other manufactures names. I came to this site and found very little support and a lot of willingness for a fight. I don't hang out at wakeboarder.com or anywhere else that bashed other boats. I can pick apart most boats, including my own. What I was more interested in was the direction tige was trying to take with their marketing and to make it apparent that they contradict themselves in most of their ads. Instead I got hit with: your boat sucks, leave the site, deal with it... mostly answers from from what seems to be immature people.

[Cheeky]

Thank Ruune, I was working on my reply, but that is what I am getting at.

You are using the wrong definition of drag.

[Ruune]

sorry you feel that way... some of us try and help the best we can.

cheeky... no problemo :D

[Domsz06]

It seems to me that we are all arguing over a ad. I argued about it too at first. I'm going to go buy the ad tonight, so I can fully understand it. One thing that seems clear is that tige says one thing in the ad, and everyone says that's not true. I'm not a pro, simply someone who enjoys the wake, and enjoys the lake. I know that I have put ballast in my tige, and ran it with out. The only difference I have seen, and felt is the size. I can still jump the wake, do 180's, do grabs, etc. The only difference is how High I get. Now, my boat says it was the offcial tow boat in the world wakeboarding championship? now is that just graphics or is it the real deal. I don't know, because I just got into wakeboarding. The only thing I do know tige has always stood behind that the boat the build is for the WHOLE family. That is why they used the ad with kids(not pro adults) fishing out of it. This memorial day I have a friend flying in from Hawaii to board behind my boat. He is on the semi pro tour there. He has a wakesetter, and he is TICKLED pink to get pulled behind my boat, now what's that mean? I have no idea, but he likes the boats, he is just a malibu dealer, so he gets a discount, so he bought that one. Basically the thing is that people here are buying a boat, spending money on it and they are defending it. That is just human nature. Aneal is asking questions that many of us do not know, and I understand that. The question is does it really matter? Tige is advertising items to get people to see them and think, "Wow I can get that big of a wake without ballast, AWESOME!!" Now maybe it's not true, but when was the last time all ads were true? Look at all the beer comercials, or the truck comercials. I mean, does the sweedish bikini team really come out and congrat you when you win, does kid rock make it ok to party till the sun comes up and your wife and kids are home? Does it mean since I open a can of beer, an instant party is going to happen? Does it mean that since I am drinking a beer with a touch less carbs, that I can now go ride the tour de france? NO. Advertising is designed to get everyone to come buy their product. Advertising will stretch the truth. I mean it's just a fact of life. There are so many products out there, they have to get that market share. It's not like it was in the day, where there was just mastercraft. I mean, I was looking in a mag, the other day and there were like 3 new companies entering the Wakeboard market. CRAZY!!

Aneall Your questions were good, and I wish I could answer them, I can't. I wish someone at tige would see this post, and have the marketing guy who thought of this campaign come up and tell why he did it and what he was thinking, That would be GREAT!! As for all the bickering( Iknow I did some of it too) I'm sorry, and everyone else is too. We want to keep this forum positive. I'm tickled pink that this is here. I found out how to adjust my speedo, and fixed my warrenty problem with the throttle, without hauling it to the city to have them do it. It's a forum, and we are all going to agree on somethings, disagree on others, and really hate it when something we feel is threatened, that's just human nature.

Ok, I'm off to work. bye for now

Dom

[Domsz06]

Originally posted by Ruune
aneal... scroll down on www.dictionary.com definition #9n. :
"The retarding force exerted on a moving body by a fluid medium such as air or water. "

Since we're tallking about hydrodynamics, this is what I relate to this situation. TAPS doesnt directly increase hydrodynamic drag. Diverts moving water (i.e. "thrust") to change the attitude of the hull... which in turn may or may not effect the drag coefficient of the boat itself. That depends on the "angle of attack" the boat holds through the water and how much of the hull is actually moving through the water itself.

In contrast to the TAPS system, from what I've seen of wakeplates- they actually hang lower than the hull and physically increase the drag coefficient of the boat.

Very nice def!!!

[Cheeky]

Perhaps when you continually argue and not listen, people get tired of dealing with you?

I was actaully being rude about the Malibu vs Moomba for a reason (did not know you had one or care that you do). Most owners do not like seeing their boats compared that way, as Malibu guy did. Perhaps I should go on the Malibu site with my observations? I have ridden in Malibus and truth be told, like them. I am sure I could find some things I do not like though and bring them out on Malibu board.

I actually did not care about this topic until it started turning into an argument. Try understanding drag as it applies here and then respond. Do not pick the first definition that pops up and does not even fit in this conversation.

[aneal000]

Thanks for your response Dom, the most logical one I have read so far.

Feel free to post the last word on this thread... it really won't bother me!

[Cheeky]

ok, i will

[Ruune]

dom? ahem.. <cough>Originally posted by Ruune <cough>

[Cheeky]

just to be fair, i went back and reread this whole post (yeah i am a glutton for punishment)

You got your answers to this several times, yet you used an insulting response to several who answered (especiaaly Ruune who started off answering your question quite nicely.) You got stuck on calling TAPS drag hardware and refused to listen.

sometime first impressions count.........

[malibu3]

If a trim tab (ie Tige revolutinary taps) is in the down position far enough that it raisies the back of the boat and pushes the nose of the boat into the water at speed, how do you justify that it is not being dragged? The friction and pressure against the Plate, not the hull make boat react accordingly!

HMMMMMM?

Glad I have a Malibu :)

[Cheeky]

in an airplane, wouldn't that be called lift? similiar reaction here... the plate pushes back against the water and lifts that boat up. It is especially not drag since "it is behind the boat" The two have nothing to do with each other.

Glad you have a Malibu too. Here's a site you may want to check out...

http://malibuboatowners.com/

[malibu3]

In an airplane you are correct the result is "lift of the plan" but the flaps that are down are dragging air!!!!!! Geez are u some kind of genious!

Same way with the boat the effect on the hull is lift but the plate is dragging to cause that effect!

[Banks]

taps up wakeboard opposite of wedge down in a malibu
taps down slalom

[Cheeky]

dragging the air? Again the flaps creat lift (thats why they are down when the plane is going slow). At speed the shape of the plane's wing creates the lift, but at low speeds the flaps alter the shape to keep the lift going and the plane up.

There is drag here, but the effect is totally different from where this began. This began using drag as something to pull down, which is not the case here. The Taps plate alter the running attitude and lifts the rear of the boat at lower speefds, much like flaps... At higher speeds, the TAPS plate begins losing it effect as the hull levels out, much like the flaps of a plane. You do not fly with the flaps down the whole time....

If you want to begin hurling insults, I'm game....

You appear to be the genius at work here...go tell your Malibu buddies how you showed them Tige boys.....

[malibu3]

Your quote "There is drag here, but the effect is totally different from where this began. This began using drag as something to pull down, which is not the case here. The Taps plate alter the running attitude and lifts the rear of the boat at lower speefds, much like flaps..."
Proves my answer. The taps makes a better slalom wake and there is no doubt about that by creating lift on the rear of the hull. But in order to do that it has to drag in the water, it is drag hardware not to make a bigger wake but to make a smaller one. Thanks for proving my theory!

Good luck with your Tige, I hope you are getting a brand new one, Don't know how long that wood will last in your old one!

Malibu3

[Jeff]

malibu3

In your boat if you do in fact own a Malibu, you already have hook built into the hull of your boat hence the entire reason for the wedge; this system allows Tigé owners the ability to adjust from hook to rocker because there is no hook built into a Tigé. So if this is the case is your boat dragging the transom portion of your hull at all times?

With this being said if you ever wanted to take a spin in a Tige to properly understand, I would be glad to take you out for a spin.

Jeff

[Ruune]

well if you want to get technical, flaps are indeed "drag hardware" in that the are designed to increase the drag- air passes above and below them to increase the drag coefficient of the wing, and thus slow the plane down for a shorter approach. Additionally, flaps increase the surface area of the wing which reduces the stall speed (minimum speed the plane can remain in the air).

That said, TAPS is not like airplane flaps. It would be more closely related to aileron or an elevator. These are called "control surfaces," and divert oncoming air to provide yaw (rudder), roll(aileron), and pitch (elevator)... not increase the drag of the plane.

[malibu3]

Thanks for the offer. I have been out in a Tige, as well as many other boats with revolutionary trim tabs! Not all Malibu's have hooks in their Hull design, the non diamond hulls do not have the hook. But guess what in the diamond hull there is hook but that hook is part of the hull, not a bolted on foreign object on the back. The hull never changes, the TAPS plate is adjusted to drag more in the water to provide the lift. It is a good design and I applaud that, but lets call a spade a spade.

Malibu3

Oh yes I do have a Malibu and am hoping to get another one at this years boat show!

Kinda Like that sticker : TIGE=GOT WOOD?

[Cheeky]

That TAPs plate does not pull it down, then hull design sits it deeper. This has been explained a half dozen time here... The TAPs plate puts hook back into the hull to lift it up, not the opposite...

Sometimes I think I would do better explaining this to my 5 year old....

You had to go with wood huh, must be desperate......

[Ruune]

you mean like calling an elevator (remember... pitch!) a flap?:D

[malibu3]

Geez you guys are lost! HELLO?

I agree with what your saying but to provide the lift the TAP plate drags in the water.

Malibu3

[Cheeky]

Thanks you Ruune for the explanation, getting my terms mixed up some.

With this, I call this one quits...

[Cheeky]

This just in:
Tige is calling it's swim platform TAPS3 since it drags in the water....

[Banks]

just so you know taps is an option you don't have to get it.
point -
1. with out the trim tab the boat would be permanently in wakeboard position
2. with out the trim tab you would not be able to get the slalom wake.
3. no trim tab = wakeboard wake = no drag
4. the trim tab is a convience feature
it allows for different wakes as opposed to just a big one
it allows you to change the angle of the boat to save on fuel
it allows for a slalom wake so all can enjoy the boat

[Banks]

and the lift you are talking about is what makes the slalom wake

[Banks]

as for the wedge i think its a great concept its open so water flows over it and it pulls the boat down hence makes the wake bigger

when taps is down it pushes the boat up so you get a slalom wake
convex hull makes back of the boat naturaly go into the water so when taps is up it is being taken out of use hence wakeboard wake.

the only reason i don't like the wedge is cause there are shallow spots on my lake and to have something down under the boat so low could be potentialy dangerous

[aneal000]

I am staying out of your little bickering thing as I said I would, but I would like to point out, only for education purpose that the wedge actually sits higher than the rest of the underwater gear. Or the lowest point on a wedge equipped boat is not the wedge, but the prop and rudder. You would hit those before you hit the wedge.

[Banks]

sorry for the mistake on how low the wedge is - just notice - you know more about your boat as we about ours

[Cheeky]

Group Hug?

[ichoop]

aneal000,

I got a late start to this post and have skimmed over the 5 pages. I think we should see if you have changed your mind about what you are asking. If you haven't, and are still concerned about tige's marketing, maybe you should give them a call and ask them where they are going with it.

I personally drove and rode behind many boats before I bought my tige. I do this with cars as well. I bought the tige because I like their approach to producing wake better than others. I didn't want to have any more expensive pieces under water than nessecary, and didn't want to pump 1500 pounds of water into my boat. I am not a pro wakeboarder and the stock wake is great for me and my friends. I also thought the tige handled rough water better. Hope this helps...

[neilm]

Originally posted by Cheeky
Group Hug?

! Good Answer, Cheeky .. probably one of the most sane responses in this thread !:cool:

... this thread is just too active [addictive?] not to throw in another two cents.

The TAPS plate (a large trim tab, really) extends the running surface of the boat beyond the transom. Since there is a positive coefficient of friction caused by water flowing across this surface (ie. the CoF is not zero), "drag" exists, so from a purely scientific perspective, Aneal is right - the TAPS plate 'drags' too...

As far as the rest of it goes, I don't believe that any manufacturer benefits from 'mud slinging' ad campaigns -- they all need to 'grow up'.

There... two cents....:p

[aneal000]

Group hug...

ichoop... I am only responding because you directly asked me, not because I am the type of person who has to have the last post as some of the other posters would lead you to believe.

But to give you my feelings 6 pages later, no I still don't understand why they did what they did. Their have been many direct answers to my questions but none that make sense in my humble little mind. I can go thru each one on an individual basis and explain what I mean. My first question was about the "Drag Hardware" it seems that this has been drug out and thru the dirt between malibu3 and others... my only point is to the average person looking to buy a new boat tige says they don't need drag hardware and then they go look at a Tige at a boat show or on a showroom floor and they see what can very easily be mistaken as drag hardware. I can understand everyone's comments and attempts to explain physics and rationalize how by a specific definition of the word it is not dragging behind the boat, but come on... remember think basic here, since that is how most people process... IT DOES DRAG. Tige marketing now has to explain what they are doing. Marketing should strengthen the ideas and goals of the company, not confuse potential buyers.

My second question was on the wake. I think one or two guys hit upon the same thing I had noticed, and that would be that once again Tige's marketing was misleading.

Thirdly I asked about the switch from wood to non wood and how they were dealing with customer preception with this change. And again I got opinions and suggestions but no real answers.

So you guys are probably wondering what it is I want to hear to go away? My main quesion was and still is: Does Tige have a stratigy with their marketing or is this really just done on purpose? Is it supposed to be misleading? Or they changing some of their marketing and forgot to change the rest? I would consider Tige to be a successful company, they are def. in the top 5, I just have a hard time beliving they would go to print with articles as misleading and as confusing as I have seen. I figured that some dealer somewhere would see my post and try and explain to me that the reason they did that was because of.......

Well I have been mistaken. So far I have upset everyone and made them think I am trying to come on this site to bash the compitition. Anyone that knows me as a person knows that that's not what I am about. Sure I joke around a lot with my buddies over all of our own boats, but I don't bash them just for the heck of it. I was truly trying to use this new site for what I thought it was going to be: a place to exchange information.
Regards,
Tony

[Nautiques]

Aneal00,
I think we have to quit beating the dead horse here. When I talked to one of the tige guys, he beat around the bush about a lot of little issued that I asked and I think some people around here are doing the same thing or something similar. This is my last post on this discussion!

[Andrew]

TAPS

The Tigé Adjustable Performance System has generated lively discussion since it was first introduced by Tigé in 1995. The fact that the patented technology it is in its ninth full year of production and loved by thousands of Tigé owners around the world is proof enough that TAPS works, providing Tigé owners with more versatility and a safer, more comfortable ride.
In the Wakeboarding Mag ad, Tigé was explaining how TAPS and the Tigé ConvexV hull affects wakeboarding performance. In this case, “drag hardware”, refers to anything that is used to alter the natural, hydrodynamic performance of the boat. Specifically, “drag hardware” extends below the transom, pulling the hull down to counteract the natural running attitude of a conventional “hooked” hull in an effort to create more water displacement and larger wakes. Those who have driven a boat configured with drag hardware are aware of what this does to overall performance.
The TAPS plate is a permanent part of the running surface of the Tigé ConvexV hull. It does not extend below the running surface. Because the ConvexV hull has no “hook”, the movable TAPS plate acts as a “variable hook” that allows the driver to set the running attitude of the hull. At boarding speeds with TAPS in the “up” position, the hull settles into the water and creates significant water displacement and huge wakeboarding wakes.
The TAPS² wake chart was put together by Tigé Pro riders who have spent thousands of hours behind our boats. It was developed to further demonstrate how TAPS and the ConvexV hull deliver pro-level wakeboarding wakes without the need for ballast or the aforementioned drag hardware. Adding ballast to a Tigé may benefit advance riders performing pro-level tricks. For the majority of riders, however, TAPS2 and the ConvexV hull provide optimum wake characteristics without the sacks.


Construction
Recent developments in composite technology and materials is the reason Tigé has eliminated wood from its construction beginning in 2004. Tigé has always overbuilt its boats in the interest of performance, safety and durability. With this in mind, Tigé made a point not to go all-composite if it meant lessening its quality and performance. The new all-composite process is dramatically different than that used by any other inboard watersport boat, creating a hull three times stronger with 300 percent more contact surface area than traditional stringer construction methods. As in the past, we still build all of our boats using primary bonding techniques throughout. Our R&D department tested composite material for over three years before releasing the Tigé LifePlus Core construction and engineering. Tigé converted to all-composite construction knowing that it made the strongest boat in the world even stronger.

Marketing
Tigé builds the most versatile watersport boat in the industry. Our marketing is aimed at communicating that versatility plus the innovation, quality and overall benefits our boats deliver to a wide variety of watersports enthusiasts…including wakeboarders. We’re always willing to share information on the design and construction of our product line and invite you to come and visit our manufacturing facility in Abilene, Texas. We would be happy to put you up in a hotel if you would like to drive down here and see what we are trying to achieve. If you are interested in coming, please contact myself at (325) 676-7777 or tigeman@tige.com.

Andrew Reyes
Tigé Customer Service Manager

[Domsz06]

Originally posted by Cheeky
This just in:
Tige is calling it's swim platform TAPS3 since it drags in the water....


hahaha, Mine doesn't drag, well ok, if I put my 600 lb friends on it it does;)

[Domsz06]

aneal,

I always wondered what the wedge was about. Thanks for clearing that up.

Dom

[Domsz06]

GO ANDREW!!!

Someone read my post and answered it. I feel special. That clears things up so nicely(IMO) I might take you up on that offer of a room, if I can get some time off of work. I'd love to see how my boat was made.

Thanks and good night all!!

[tigebill]

Malibu3 says, "Thanks for the offer. I have been out in a Tige, as well as many other boats with revolutionary trim tabs! Not all Malibu's have hooks in their Hull design, the non diamond hulls do not have the hook. But guess what in the diamond hull there is hook but that hook is part of the hull, not a bolted on foreign object on the back"

I'm confused! Do the Malibu's 'DIAMOND HULL" have hook built into the hull or not? I would never question you as a Malibu owner but I don't think you really know what your talking about. And I really don't mean that to be a :D but just read your own post.

[malibu3]

On the Diamond Hull for malibu, it is set up to be there "Skiiing" hull. It does have the hook at the stern of the boat that provides "Lift" on the hull therefore pushing the bow into the water.

The non-diamond hulls do not have this hook. As you run your hand along the bottom side of the hull you do not feel the hook as such in the diamond hull.

I apoligize for the confusion as I was typing fast trying to get my point across.

Good night all!

Malibu3

[tigebill]

"you do not feel the hook as much" So I ask again, is there hook in the Malibu's hull. Not trying to speak for you but I think you are trying to say that they have reduced the hook in the NON DIAMOND HULL. They actually haven't taken the hook all the way as Tige has done in their Convex V.

[Ruune]

The difference in the convex V hull and a traditional hull is not necessarily just the hook, and I feel that Tigé should concentrate on marketing the other aspects of the design, rather than pointing out that some manufacturers are using a "hook" at the end.

What I'm referring to is the area where the semi-V breaks the water- the area directly below the windshield. It's larger than your typical inboard- meaning that theres slightly more hull below the waterline at a standstill. Now, since this planing area sits higher, and the stern side has a slight upward curve at the back, the area between the two follows an CONVEX arc. This is instead of a straight line from the breaking point in the water to the transom. Because of this, the bow will tend to rise higher. This in turn shifts more weight back. Since the upward curve of the transom side inhibits lift on the rear of the planing surface, you end up with more hull in the water... thus displacing more water and creating a bigger wake.

Also, I'm not sure about I-drives, but with TAPS all the way up and at wide open throttle, 22v's (and by extension, I'm assuming 20v's and 24v's do the same) tend to porpoise. That is, the bow tends to hop up and down. This is easily correctable with TAPS, which is why it's a must-have on these boats if you ever intend on going faster than say... 30mph.

Some people complain about excessive bowrise in the 22v, but from my experience with TAPS all the way up, its still far less than an I/O. With TAPS all the way down, its hardly noticeable.

Well, I'm done rambling... I guess my final point is that instead of concentrating on the "hook" bit, they should be promoting the entire design. It seems complicated, but a simple illustration wouldn't be hard to explain the entire idea.

[neilm]

I guess my final point is that instead of concentrating on the "hook" bit, they should be promoting the entire design. It seems complicated, but a simple illustration wouldn't be hard to explain the entire idea.

Agree... Promote... don't take cheap shots (ie "Drag Hardware") and expect that you won't get dragged (sorry - couldn't resist :D ) through the mud yourself.

I personally think a hull designed to take advantage of an adjustable tab (ie. the whole TAPS concept) is a great idea (even although I don't own a Tige).

.. I smell a dead horse....:eek:

[Ruune]

hehe... excuse me. :o

[tige24v]

This is the same CRAP that wakeboarder.com tries to argue every month or so and everyone gets upset and claims this boat is crap or that boat is junk. Whatever - The intent of THIS WEB SITE has been missed. Hull design debate, wake shape/size, and build quality were something to be addressed before the purchase decision - the name of this site is TIGEOWNERS.COM.

This site should be used to share information about how to make the Tige ownership experience better - period. Worthless manufacturer debates belong back at www.wakeboarder.com if you need conflict or rancid debate in your life.

Who cares about magazine pages or advertisements - they are just words on a page. Who would make a serious purchase decision based on an magazine advertisement ???? and god forbid anyone think advertising ever stretches the truth or is "confusing" in our perfect world.

Driving the boat, talking to owners, dealer support/warranty, and build quality are all that matter. I have learned this the hard way as we are on boat number 6 and the 24v is our favorite one yet.


THE END

[Ruune]

Gee I thought that I was discussing hull technology... :rolleyes:

[tkuzma]

As I read these posts, I can see the frustration build-up in the Tige owners. The best thing to do with these "thugs" is to ignore them. Remember the bullies in school who pushed your buttons to get a reaction out of you. That is what these bullies are doing. They need to feed their tiny self-esteems by picking on others. But the best thing to do is completely ignore them. :cool:

[Cheeky]

Although it is frustrating when you try to explain something people do not want to believe, it's all good. This is exactly why there are so many manufacturers. Don't like TAPs or Tige, buy something else.

I do find it odd that people with other brands come here to "question" Tige. I would never dream of going to Malibu owners site or Planet Natique to ask questions such as these. I would certainly not start insulting the boat for which the site is devoted to. Could I find things I do not like and criticize and insult these other boats since it does not fit my needs...YES, but do I, NO. I made my stand when I did not buy those boats because of my dislikes and my belief that the Tige best met all of my needs.

Many Tige owners are probably defensive because they have dealt with this petty crap for years on other web sites, typically from someone who could not even pronounce Tige, much less ridden in one.

[Ruune]

Cheeky... awesome.

BTW for all you kiddies at home- its "Tie-GUH."

[Cheeky]

Awww man, giving that away is like sharing the secret handshake...

[Ruune]

whoops... I tried to edit it, but theres a 4 minute time limit on edits.

[tige24v]

If your the Malibu Boats Promo Guy for your area why are you hanging out with Tige ??? Doesn't Malibu have an owners website you can play on ?

Any luck selling your used 2003 yellow malibu for $45,000 ?? end of summer last yr our dealer was offering the same basic setup(diff lights and speakers) for $43,000 boat show special without dealing.

Buy a Tige - then come back to www.tigeowners.com

[Ruune]

who are you referring to?

[tige24v]

aneal000 - who is questioning tige's direction is a rep for malibu according to his wakeboarder.com posts - big suprise

[aneal000]

tige24v, I never came on this site and tried to hide who I was. I am the promotional driver for Malibu in the St. Louis area, I have been for the last 2 years. I never tried to hide my identity by posting under different names or lying about who I was. No big suprise, your right. When directly asked what boat I had I told everyone. I questioned what I saw because I was curious, not because I am an ***. I didn't come on here throwing mud like malibu3 did. I figured a lot of people that would be on this site might know me from some of the posts I used to have on wakeworld, I spend very little time posting there or wakeboarder currently. I'm sure the posts you saw were of me trying to sell my promo boat on wakeboarder.com. I have a lot of friends that own Tige's, Nautiques, MC, and Malibus. They are all good boats, and I've never questioned that.

[aneal000]

Let me actually answer your question, Why am I here?

First and foremost I am here because I am addicted to wakeboarding. I love wakeboarding more than any other sport or hobby I have ever been a part of. I eat, drink, sleep, and live wakeboarding. I love chatting with people about every aspect of our industry, including boards, boats, tricks, people, styles, gadgets, accessories, you name it. I can't get enough. Contrary to what most people think about me on this site I have a lot of experience in the industry and have on other sites provided much useful information to newbies about our sport. If you guys want to keep this an elete club of owners only then you should require boat serial numbers before entry. I have never bashed Tige on wakeworld or wakeboarder, I'm sorry that you guys feel I was just here to bash your boats.

[Cheeky]

You may not bash Tige directly, but when I reread your second post, it cam across as rude and sarcastic toward Ruune. Perhaps you did not mean it that way, but that is just they way message boards work. What you thought was witty and funny comes across as rude.

When I first read your posts, it seemed incredibly similiar to the numberous bashes I have read and when you became sarcastic when someone honestly tried to answer, it looked like a clear attempt at taking a stab. If not, then by gone be by gones.

As for Malibu, yes he did bash and I think it is incredibly bad taste to come onto a brand's site and bash.. Since he does not have a profile and I am in a generous mood, I'll pretend he's 11 and dealing with puberty.....

[malibu3]

OK Guys! While I admit I did get carried away in some of my post with the mud slinging it was inappropriate. I did feel that Tige did some Mud Slinging in some of their ad literature so let's just make this water under the bridge.

I applaud the company for getting this site going to get real owner and consumer feedback. I hope that the marketing people at Tige take a look at this discussion thread and think to thereselves "What the He** are we doing?"

As with any other watersport enthusiast I am just looking to discuss items that have regards to the sport!

Anyway, have a great summer and I look forward to reading some of the post about Tige in the future!

Malibu3 signing off!

[tige24v]

Regardless of boat brand or ownership we would love to have any other boating maniacs at this site who have knowledge to share and tips to encourage others. I personally want to know about the latest in tested products, techniques, and accessories to make boating more fun, safer, whatever.

I just don't want this site to be about manufacturer choices or marketing issues. (no rational person makes a significant purchase based on a magazine ad ? - they try the product, talk to references, and then decide)

Consider this site the - After The Sale Site. Right or wrong we picked the boats now we just want them to be as good as possible with all the cool toys we can afford (before our wives stop us). I don't plan to hide any flaws I find with my tige - I will share them with others so they can figure out if they matter to them.

I personally think malibu is a good boat and considered it and the tige most seriously based on our needs and a ton of research. If you want to disparage tige do it where it has impact - not here.

Otherwise please stay in the game.

Regards.

[Banks]

Just out of curiosity what kind of company supports a representative to bash a competitor on the competitor's site. Sorry aneal but you get fired for things like that in the world that I live in. Due to the lies you have told, there is no certain answer as to who you are, and because of the lies you lose all creditibility you may have ever had with me. Therefore, I can not believe with out further proof that you are who you claim to be. It is just that a claim.

[Gudge]

I currently own a MC. I'm going to buy a new boat though. I have looked at everything. I have hung around the Malibu boat owners site, and was very excited about the Tige owners site when it started last week. I have not yet made my final decision. I will buy either the new Wakesetter LSV or the new Tige 24V. I think both boats are incredible from what I have seen and or ridden behind.

I think that Ballast is an important part of a big wake. I also look at boats that don't have Taps, or the wedge a little differently. I guess I respect companies who try something new that works. One of the roots to this thread talks about whos dragging what. Who cares? If your dragging a wedge or the Taps system-Great! We all know both systems work. Which is better???? Every company can't have a modified wedge or taps system! Whats else can someone come up with??? I havent seen any other company introduce something that wasnt related to ballast. Afterall pickle forks dont ultimately adjust a wake.

As for aneal00-I've talked to him in the past and have read many of his posts on the other site. I never read a slam from him on this thread. I also took his first posts as someone who could be a potential buyer. It wasnt until he was asked that his relationship with Malibu came up.

I think some people here need to lighten up. You arent here to justify your purchase. Your here to help a company make improvements so that when you buy your next Tige it will be better than ever. If you like Tiges who cares what anyone else thinks about them- your the one who has to pay for it. This whole thread wasnt about who built a better boat, it was about the marketing stradegy.

Tige has had a crappy reputation for years. I blame the marketing stradegy, not the product.

[Banks]

If it has a crappy reputation it's not in all areas, Tige' just came to SC and the only rep it has is that of being a new boat on the market. The only people in the are I have heard talk crap have done so because they have said if its not a mastercraft or nautique it sucks, based on no factual information, and will say they have never riddin behind one either. And, to say it has a crappy reputation is an insult. Apparently thats not the case everywhere, as you imply, for if that were the case there would not be as many Tige' owners as there are.

[Gudge]

I see many Tige's in the Northwest and realize its a newer company compared to the bigger 3. My comment about a crappy reputation is not based on the product like I SAID. Its based on flunky marketing personell.

[Ruune]

I dont necessarily think they're bad marketers... I just think that theres room for improvement in specific areas of how they describe their innovations.

As for the quality of the product... I look at manufacturing techniques, materials, technology, design, etc. before anything else. Let me just say that there are no Tigé dealers in San Antonio. There are MC, CC, Centurion, malibu, etc. but no Tigé. It is because I believe in their product, that I'm going to the Ski Dock in North Austin. It also helps that everyone that I've talked to up there are awesome. My hat's off to Damon and Roland up there, who have been both patient and helpful whenever I've got a question.

[Domsz06]

Grudge,

Aneal wasn't aruging about the fact of good or bad dragging, but why tige was saying in the ad that they don't drag anything, where he feels they do.

This whole post right now is been misinturpeted, because of what Banks said that they are not known. People in the world form most if not all of their opinions on what they hear. Most of the times they don't even bother to look up any facts, or anything. Rumors spread like wildfire. I'm sure it's something like the restaurant business(I know this well, sinc it's my everyday life right now) If you have one bad experience at a restaurant you will tell ten people, and then they will tell ten people. Needless to say, anyone can do the simple math, and realize that it getts big really fast. Imagine if I told aneall that tige's suck. Well then he's gonna tell ten, and those ten are gonna tell ten, so just after once we are already at 100 people, then we go to 1000, and so on. What I believe is that the ad is bad, well, ok not great. Andrew addressed the point of the ad, and made a very bold proposition saying he will pay for anyone to stay the night in Abline to come and see the plant. That is AWESOME!! I'd like to take him up on that offer, so I can see it.

Then we all come back and jump everyone. Now, I know people have said some things, but I agree, we also have a point. Everyone makes fun of tige's, based on what I have said earlier. Everyone needs to look at in a open perspective. Now i"m not trying to say I like everything that was said, or that I didn't jump down aneall's throat. I did. I think on the arguing we just need to drop it and enjoy this site. Lets use it for what the creators intended it. I know I have referred people to this site to inquire about tige's Lets show them we are proud of what we have, and welcome to this site.

I'm done with this post. Everyone have fun, and keep on typing.

Dom

[Ruune]

invite you to come and visit our manufacturing facility in Abilene, Texas.

Andrew... I spoke with Darren Landry over email last fall, and he also extended an invite to come tour the facility. I think that I'll take you up on that offer, once we've placed our order this spring. It'll be interesting to see my actual boat during the manufacturing process!

[edwin]

My only question...after 8 pages of this, why can't we all just get along with one another? :confused:

[brd4fun]

After reading most of this post. I now have a question.
Would my swim platform be considered drag hardware? And why would a Malibu rep question the marketing strategy or direction of Tige or any other boat manufacturer?

My 2 cents.

There are different boat manufacturers because people have different needs and wants (just like car's, motorcycle's and so on).
When making my decision my wife and I both went out on all the wakeboarding boats avaliable. I wanted a HUGE wake she wanted a smaller wake, lots of storage and a big sundeck. The Tige with ballast and taps was the perfect boat for us. We have been very blessed and are able to buy any boat we wanted, the boat that suited us best was the Tige.

I am not saying all the other boats suck, I am saying in my opinion Tige is the best boat for my family.

So in closing, never make a decision based on what someone else says about a boat or anything else. Take the time and ride, drive and board behing everything.

Oh one more thing. How is that 180 coming?

[Cheeky]

Couldn't resist, could ya BRD.....

[OldSkier]

I had not planned on rejoining this thread. However, when it was learned that "aneal000" is in fact a Malibu Driver Rep, I feel compelled again to comment.

1/ First, to our Tige Web Hosts: PLEASE, be aware, that aneal000 and Malibu3 do NOT speak for Malibu boat owners in general. I own a Malibu. He certainly does NOT speak for me.... and I suspect he does NOT speak for most Malibu owners. I also suspect he does NOT speak for Malibu as a company either. I am truly embarassed for what he has said and done on your website. We're your guests. We should not abuse that . You've got a great website. Thanks for letting us be part of it.

2/ To aneal000: I had thought from your questions and reponses that you were simply a young kid, over zealous about yours, or your Dad's Malibu. Now we find out you are a Malibu Driver Rep. The key word here is "REP" = Representative! In spite of all your statements that you're not "bashing", and have just joined the Tige site for the love of the sport....that is total rubbish. All the talk of marketing direction and "drag hardware" etc etc etc... was simply a way to try and embarass Tige. The "malibuboatowners" website was "down" the past weekend. When it came back up, you in so many words, announced that you missed the malibu site, and were bragging about the way you had joined the Tige site and were stirring up the pot. Shame.

3/ To Malibu "company" folks (in case you're reading this.) I believe your "Driver Rep" has grossly overstepped the bounds of his responsibilities. Worse, is that in his childish way, he has deviated from Malibu's "high road" in the way you market and advertise. In spite of his "love of the sport", he has tried to shroud his disparaging comments over and over again, but in reality it's just Tige bashing. If I was Malibu, I would seriously question his ability to "represent" the company in the future.

We've all seen courtroom dramas. Sometimes one of the lawyers yells "I object" when something is said out-of-line. Sometimes the judge exclaims "sustained", followed by "please strike those last comments from the record". My wish list is that all aneal000's and malibu3's questions and answers could be "stricken from the record". Tige has done a great service to their owners and other water enthusiasts. It's a shame what aneal and malibu3 have done the past week to disrupt your new website. Thanks, and keep up the good work.

Lastly, to aneal000 (and Malibu3). If you had 1 ounce of personal and business decency left in you, you'd post 1 last comment on the thread. Simply "I apologize". NOT an apology with more explanation or justification or more double talk, just an apology. Period. But I think that's hoping for too much.

[Ruune]

dude let it go... theres been too much drama already.

[Cheeky]

To quote one of the great Philosiphers (sp?) of our generation:

"Where is the love?"

[aneal000]

old school, I had also planned to stay out of this until you personally attacted me. I suggest you reread this entire post and truly think about what I have said and what you have said. Your right some of these posts have been uncalled for, I would just question which ones.

If you want to talk about details and having your facts correct, as so many have stated on this board then maybe you should dig a little deeper into my background before speaking so openly. If you did you would find that I am in no way associated with Malibu other that I own the title to one. I do not collect a paycheck from the company, I do not report to anyone at Malibu or any of Malibu's dealers, I do not work for Malibu, I do not provide them any type of labor in exchange for goods, etc, etc... What I do is buy a boat every year from our local dealer. He gives me a good deal on it in return for helping him out at boat shows and local tournaments. It is easier to call myself a promotional driver because that is a term that people understand in our industry, but to clarify, for everyone's sake I have no vested interest in Malibu as a company. I have a friendship with a dealer that happens to sell them. I will agree with you in the statement that I do not speak for Malibu, it's associates, or owners. I never claimed, nor would expect anyone to draw those conclusions from any of my conversations. My words are my own and they were never intended to be anyone elses.

Even with that clarified I don't feel that the questions I posed were in any way degrading to Tige, I don't feel obgliated to apologize for asking a question. If it is a question that you feel might be tough to answer then maybe you should consider why the question would even come up. Andrew from Tige had no problems giving a response to it, all be it a little vauge in his response to the marketing portion of my question, however he did as I would expect and I applaud him for taking the initative and posting publicly about his company on any internet board. Thank you Andrew for your response. I would love to visit the Tige factory, I will consider taking you up on the offer, that is if you are not afraid I might question something you or your company is doing.

I do spend most of my time on Malibu Boat Owners, knowing the type of people that frequent that site I honestly believe anyone would be welcome to come on that site and question anything Malibu as a company was doing. I would, along with other members of the site have no issues responding to such questions. People use the site daily to help aid in their buying decision, the site is not just made up of owners. In fact I know quite a few people that visit the site on a regular basis that are Nautique owners, Mastercraft owners, and Tige owners. No one cares. If they want to ask a challenging question so be it. They will typically get many answers based on fact, not opinion like we have frequently seen here on this thread.

I think this site has the potential to be a great site. It is well on it's way. I have been posting on various other threads on this site and have seen what I would expect, a group of good people exchanging good information. But if the site would rather I not be here please feel free to ask me to leave.
Best Regards,
Tony

[BC06]

one more time for the slow ones:

a) on THIS site, has a malibu/CC/MC, criticizing Tige: insecure

b) on THIS site, doesn't own a boat, criticizing Tige: poser


both types: I would rather you go blurt your propaganda on another site, nobody here cares; we've already made our decision (note the address here). The other sheep are waiting for you at wakeworld.com. Have a nice day.

[BC06]

one more thing, aneal, (if you insist on continuing to try to save us from ourselves), how about posting some of those cool malibu pics with the transoms torn out...tige hasn't developed the technology to do that yet.

[Gudge]

one more time for the slow ones:

a) on THIS site, has a Tige owner insecure about his purchase:

b) on THIS site, owns a boat, wants to understand why Tige markets wood, taps, no ballast as good one minute, and not good enough the next.

Grow up and explain.

[BC06]

At one point Ford marketed tubed tires and 8-track players, then they found something that they thought worked better. I have no idea what goes on in Tige's board-room, but you market what you build and you build what you think works best for the material prices and production costs that you want to stay within.

I am not insecure about my purchase but I do appreciate your diagnosis. Anneal sucker-punched me with his original question and I fell for it; I actually spent some time looking up the answer and replied in good-faith. He wasn't interested in what I had to say, he was looking for ammunition.

[malibu3]

You guys should grow up. On the malibuboatowners.com site you will see threads of what owners want to see Malibu do differently as well as potential buyers. For example the threads on the HDS (Hydroponic Dampening System), the thread about the time the Wedge hit something and busted the fiberglass on the transom. ETC ETC ETC.

To the point of everyone I took a couple cheap shots and I was looking to rouse and have fun as I would joke with my friends that have Tige boats. It is a rivalry but I do not take it personally, it is guys giving each other a hard time! Kinda like the Chevy Ford debate.

You guys need to realize your potential here and what a vast amount of information you can get from this site. If you guys merily just say we only want to hear positive then would you be afraid to post something negative that happened so you could get an answer.

I can tell you that Aneal is a very knowledable person with regards to the industry and his advice is invaluable. He has provided many people with good feedback on Malibuboatowners.com. In fact he has even done a repair job on a tige for a buddy of his, a fuse was blown keeping the motor from running.

Once again to reiterate. My fun jabbing was no different than giving my friends a hard time. Think about what you all want this site to accomplish and don't close the door every time someone questions the motives of Tige or the direction they are headed.

Thanks.

Malibu3

[BC06]

I think that's reasonable.

[Cheeky]

Perhaps instead of telling us to grow up (which is insulting), maybe you should realize jokes with people you do not know do not translate well on the internet. When people are kidding, they will put j/k to help the reader understand what they are doing.

I know what you are saying about kidding with friends, we heckle MC and Bu owners constantly since most of our group are Tige owners. We gladly ride behind any of the boats there and our friends know we are kidding.

On the net though, I do not do this because it looks like a cheap shot and these people do not know where you are coming from.

In other words, look in the mirror for part of the blame as to why people got steamed over the posts..... Some of your comments were inflamatory and not taken as jokes since text does not ranslate the same.

I ask myself why even keep posting here, because at the end of the day, it's just a bulletin board. I do hate seeing false and disparaging comments made since some reader will not understand the background.

Also, I had no problem with the original post or question. I do believe the replies to those who answered were rude and uncalled for (basically looking to stir the pot). If someone does not answer your question, a simple " I still do not understand" would be sufficient versus "Thanks for the Attempt" and " You must have gone to the Tige school of Marketing ". Those both come accross as rude.

[Cheeky]

BTW, questioning Tige comments on ballast. You know they do market to all boaters, not just hard core wakeboarder right?

I have friends with Tiges and all they want to do is enjoy time with the family, but they want the look and handling of an inboard, plus the lay out of a Vdrive. He does not want ballast, nor does he care. with friends in the boat, he likes the wake.

Now, when people are hooked and want to take it to the next level, they add ballast. I think when Tige talks about no ballast, they are targeting the families who wish to enjoy their boats and not worried about backrolls and tantrums (unless it's their kid acting up ).

We can go anywhere and find things to pick apart in any advertising campaign. How about we just let it go.

FYI, no insecurity on my purchase, just tired of people talking smack and not listening when someone tries to answer. I drove all the other boats and the Tige was my choice for my family.

[Banks]

nicely put, and I did just the same, as in testing. I am also tired of all the ill mannored talk about Tige'.

[Jester]

Originally posted by aneal000
spooner, I'll agree there is a big difference between a wedge and the TAPS. I never tried to compare the two. Only thing I said was that tige is saying they don't need "Drag Hardware" when they have a piece of metal that they drag around every lake are river they are put on!

Actually its for variable hook. It changes the hydrodynamics of the hull where the hook is usually found. So no, it is not a piece of "drag hardware", but a hook manipulation device.

[malibu3]

Jester, You are a genious! It is a something trim tab state of the art piece of metal that is behind the hull but does not drag make your wake better device! You got it! Your exactly right. Could I get your autograph?

:D

[Jester]

Originally posted by malibu3
Jester, You are a genious! It is a something trim tab state of the art piece of metal that is behind the hull but does not drag make your wake better device! You got it! Your exactly right. Could I get your autograph?

:D

Well thank you for the compliment. =) Maybe tige could use that to describe the taps system?

Its hard to imagine people have enough time in the day to visit forums and try to point out the shortcommings and faults of other people and their posts. I guess some people need others to argue with to survive or to make them feel more intelligent than the average Joe.

Whatever happened to forums where information and suggestions are made without people intervening who are totally biased?

Well im done with this topic. This dead horse has been beaten enough. Maybe you will fell the same way. But then again, your the type who has to have the last word in.

So here is your chance, add your last words here, I wont be replying

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[OldSkier]

Oh no..... the MBO website is down again.

Look out for aneal000 and malibu3 to rejoin and try some new "constructive" commentary.

[mctrick]

My First Post Im reading about the TAPS system being refered to as something that is being drug for wake performance like some of the other Manufactures out there but dont we raise the Taps all the way up to get the hull to sit deeper creating a larger wake and lower the TAPS to get the boat flatter for skiing performance and so I would agree with Tiges description of not having dragging effects on there boat for increased wake perfomance.

[Ruune]

TAPS is not drag hardware- it is a variable extension of the hull. This means that #1 it does not hang below the hull ("dragging" doesnt necessarily mean "trailing behind."), and #2 it doesnt increase the drag coefficient of the hull- unlike the wedge. By the same token, CorrectCraft's hydrogate isnt "drag hardware" either. Dont get me wrong- its a good idea, but having a hydrofoil hanging at the back of the hull makes my cringe at the thought of hitting something. Especially with the shots I've seen online about ripped transoms.

Wood in the hulls- Tigé does not have wood in their hulls. In fact, the teak platforms are the only wood in the entire boat. I'd argue the validity of wood as a construction material, but thats a tired debate and is a moot point. So get over it, move on. Next?

Oldskier- you're talking sarcastically about aneal000 and malibu3 making constructive commentary? That seems like a contradiction and to quote your post from yesterday "It's like you're a little kid trying to start a fight in the schoolyard."

As for the ballast argument- Honestly, who cares? Try the boat out, if you like the wake as it is, dont add ballast. If you want to go bigger, by all means, add it. These boats have TREMENDOUS storage space. Tigé appears to be gearing towards a wider audience and selling the point that you can have a decent wake without adding ballast... BUT you CAN add it if you want. This is going to vary from rider to rider, and also vary by how many people are in the boat. It's based on opinion, and theres no definitive answer.

Marketing's main goal is to attract attention to their product. No matter what you say about positioning, I believe that this debate is proof that they succeeded.:eek:

[neilm]

Originally posted by OldSkier
Oh no..... the MBO website is down again.

Look out for aneal000 and malibu3 to rejoin and try some new "constructive" commentary.

OldSkier, you're just plain B A D (ROFL) + :D ... just wait till TR gets here.. they'll need a new server to handle the volume......:cool:

p.s. does "oldskier" - "Doug?"

[tkuzma]

The other BIG part of the TAPS2 equation that gets overlooked by the people who don't truly know Tige boats is the shape of the hull. TAPS2 by itself is like a trim tab. But with the convex V hull, the combo works together incredibly well to change the size and shape of the wake. For me, less ballast added to the boat=less strain on the engine=longer engine life. For me, a no brainer!!! Tige all the way!

[OldSkier]

To ruune. I'm guilty. Have an explanation.... but the fact is, I'm guilty.

To neilm. Could be....or, maybe Oldskier IS the good ol' boy TR himself!!!

[Ruune]

thought so! :D Anyways, lets all try and keep this constructive, shall we?:eek:

[neilm]

Oldskier, I was going to email you but your email isn't in your profile here and the other place is down again...
Nah, you're not TR... you're too wordy and the words "bite me" didn't appear anywhere in your threads....:D :D

[aneal000]

old skier, I was going to email you also, but no address...

As much as I'm sure he would like some claim to fame I can assure everyone old skier is not TR, I had a very interesting chat with Tom one afternoon, the topic: old skiers comments on this thread!

One other comment worth noting, and this is directed again toward Old Skier, you said somthing a few pages back along the lines of "Malibu should be made aware of my actions and they should do something about it". So not long ago I had an opportunity to speak with an official Malibu employee/owner rep and explained this thread... his comments were, old skier was right, something should be done about my comments and proceeded to give me a "high five" along with quite a detailed explanation of Tige's history and maketing practices, (which brought light to my original questions) all of which were very well spoken and professional, even praising Charley Peigon on his ability to market anything. But finally his explination of the marketing and the person doing the marketing made sense. It seems most everyone else on this board was too emotionally attached to their decision and product to understand my questions.

I wish you the best of luck Old Skier...

[Ruune]

"now... let go of your anger. Give in to your hate and your journey towards the dark side will be COMPLETE!!!"

:p :p :p

sorry... thought I'd give in to the dark side with some insolent rambling.

[OldSkier]

To aneal: I don't quite trust that you would represent the depth and breadth of your bashing in your conversation with Mr. Malibu.

I also don't think the folks at Malibu, who usually take the high road, heard the whole story.

You just don't get it. The Tige User site is not the place to climb on your Malibu soap box.

[Hoots]

Hey everybody, anneal is right. Thank goodness there is a malibu owner/rep/philanthropist/narcisist willing to help us all out. I say we all sell our tiges and rename this site "recoveringtigeowners.com". Thanks for your time, anneal. We're all going to be okay now. Now, sadly, it's time for you to provide your services somewhere else, say moombaowners.com. We'll always remember you.

Now get lost.

[aneal000]

old skier, your right, I painted myself all pretty. As I would then be able to pat myself on my back and say, see I told ya all! Well I'm afraid you are the one that dosen't quite get it. You are the one who in fact brought this thread back to life, not me. You really are a piece of work, how come you don't use your same screen name over on MBO? You don't want everyone to know who you are?

[OldSkier]

To aneal: What's the relevance of whether I am a member of Wakeworld or MBO? So you can go on a search and destroy mission?

As expected, you've gone back to your buddies at MBO (and now Malibu Corp you're bragging) and chuckle about your disruptive thread on Tige's "Users" site. Of course, they got the "complete" story from you.

Now, you also want to find out my work or home email address.... why? To harass me personally? That's classic "bully" or "heckler" behaviour. You want to see if I am an active member on another website...why? To form a little posse to electronically "lynch" me because you don't like how I've said that I think your actions on the Tige website are shameful. That you have overstepped the line of business and personal decency.

Aneal, do NOT...repeat... do NOT send me personal emails.

To Tige User website: My apology. I'm ok if you decide to deny me and aneal "participation" access to your forum. You guys don't need this kind of disruptive activity. You've got over 400 members now, and you continue to grow, and have great member interaction.

[David]

I thought this forum was done with months ago and every concern or question was answered. So why must you carry on with it and make things even worse...?

[neilm]

OldSkier, I think it's the cold and the snow that's driving us crazy.
Email me when you get a sec.