Outrageous Stereo Install Price - Opinions Please

[Bryce]

So earlier this week I took my 2008 22ve to the stereo shop highly recommended from my Tige dealer for the stereo install. I want to get the input from those of you who install or have had your systems installed. When I heard the total price I about fell over. Here's what they did:
-Installed and wired Syn 2, Syn 4, and Syn 6 on the inside wall behind the observer's seat (didn't need to make amp rack, as from factory it had carpeted wood already there to attach amps to.
-Installed WetSounds 3-Some on my e-tower (tubular, had to run wires as it wasn't prewired).
-Installed 2 more xs-650's (one above port cupholder, the other on portside next to the cooler, facing the driver. They had to cut out holes in the fiberglass).
-Install the 420 EQ in the dash below the speedset controls.
-Install an xs-12 sub below the cockpit (wanted them to put in bulkhead wall and attach sealed box behind it. They said after the fact that since the box they had was too long they weren't able to make it work so they just put the box on the floor where my feet go.)
-Set gains and tune the system so I am not blowing fuses.

I was told that they would be in the area of 10-15 hours of labor to get the job done (the owner said definately closer to 10 hours than 15 hours). I checked in with them on Thurday afternoon and the installer said he was right at 10 hours. At that point he was done with the tower and amps, and all wiring/cutting. He just had to screw in the 2 650's, mount the 420 (hole already cut and ready for mounting), and hook up the sub in a prefab box). To my surprise, My credit card was run and the amount was several hundred dollars than I was expecting. When I called them to find out what the total costs were due to (I got an email from VISA about the card being ran without it being swiped), they said there was 16 hours of labor. I nearly peed my pants. To make matters worse, the installer called back 5 minutes later saying he couldn't install the sub on the bulkhead wall and put where my feet go (I explained ealier this isn't acceptable since that's were my kid's babyseat will go when she's out with us. He said they would have to do a "custom" box for that.

Everyone that I have talked to, including other installers and my Tige dealer agrees with me that 10 hours of labor should have been more than needed. What are your thoughts on this and what can I do about this? I called for the owner today (Saturday) but he won't be in until Monday morning. I told the installer about my angst and he said I would have to talk to the owner about it. I told him to have the owner call me Monday at opening or have him expect my call. I am so pissed rigt now I can't see straight. I feel like the company took advantage of my because of my perceived financial status with this boat.

Suggestions on how to proceed please!!!

Thanks,
Bryce

[talltigeguy]

So as I understand it, you are only disappointed in the extra 6 hours of labor they charged you, otherwise the price was fair. I think a decent installer should have gotten that done in 10 hours without too much trouble.

I thought there was a cutout on the driver's kick panel which makes a sub install somewhat of a slam dunk...??? At least it was easy in my 05.

To some degree, I think the industry is rife with folks trying to take advantage of us because of the fact we have spent 50K+ on a boat. I have gotten used to it.

[Bryce]

TallTigeGuy,
There is probably the cutout, but it's for the 10 inch sub. Moreover, they said that there is a retainer thingie that holds the steering cables to the left side and guides them through the floor that mounts on the bulkhead that is in the way for setting the screws for the box. I agree that 10 hours is more than enough. I like the assume people are honest and mean well but they went over by 40-60% and failed to tell me before running the card or before installing the sub in a location that I said I didn't want it. We may spend $60k on a boat that that doesn't mean I am OK with spending $1350 in labor for a $850 max labor job. What's a tactful way to approach them. I was thinking about telling them the installer said he was at 10 hrs. with just the 650's and sub to install, as well as the EQ to plug in and attach and ask them where the extra 4 hours came from (giving them 2 hours to do that). What do you think. Am I just being cheap or am I right feeling taken advantage of?

Thanks,
Bryce

[Thomas Hohl]

I installed my own system that is pretty similar to yours myself from scratch. I am a millwork guy with a very large shop and every tool known to man, and I can tell you that after I finished my install, I would have gladly paid someone $1200.00 or so to do it. And I had help from Cheapthril on what I was doing. It was a major pain. It's not a lot of work but the tight work spaces are killers. It's not any fun climbing up and down into the boat to get another piece of some more wire, trust me. I find it hard to believe that they did the whole thing in 10 hrs. They had to have an installer and a helper.
I do agree with everyone though, that if you bring a $60k boat in the shop, they think you have plenty of money. Hacks me off too.
I'm not sure you got overcharged, from my experience.

[Bryce]

thomas,
I totally hear you with the install being a PITA. I'm a financial advisor, not an electronics guy. Financial tip #1 - boats are expensive and are terrible investments... The install is top notch and super clean, I'm just a little hacked off about the overage and the shotty sub install (which will be addressed at 8am monday morning. maybe I'm ''buying smart once'' to have a system that requires me to do nothing but enjoy my family and friends on the lake. Any other guidence on what to say to them?

Thanks,
Bryce

[River Runner]

Not sure how the stereo industry works but if I quote you a job I quote you the EXACT hours upfront.

If i get it done sooner its a bonus for me, if it takes me longer I take it in the shorts. Customer should be quoted a price including parts and labor upfront.

If you are a professional you know how long it takes and will even provide yourself a small cushion for "murphy". This 10-15 doesnt fly with me. Is it 10 or is it 15???

[chpthril]

I hope you got your 20% discount on the 3-some/Syn6 setup!

What is the sub box made of? I hope it's not just carpeted MDF. I'm not sure what their adversion is to doing "a custom box" is, hell, 50% of the stereo work in a boat is custom :confused: And to slip a 1cu-ft box into the helm storage door is doable. The steering cable guide is held on by a few screws and can easily be temporarily removed if needed.

I know in most states, the total bill can not exceed 10% of the original estimate, without prior approval that the amount is going up. If he gave you a written quote, the he can not charge you more then an additional $85 or so, plus, you contracted for the sub to be mounted in the bulkhead, not dropped in the floor. The owner agreed to that in his original price, the fact that he didn't fallow through because it would require a custom box, too bad, he quoted it. Sorry if he assumed that his pre-fab box would work.

From a price standpoint, I dont think the price is too out of line for fishing a tower and mounting a 3-some, mounting 3 amps which could have used about 70ft of 1/0 gauge alone, cut and mount a pair of xs-650's (factory pre-wired) mount sub (again, factory pre-wired), mounting and wiring a ws-420 (requires power/gnd/remote and RCA to be run over to the amps)

[kko]

IMPO he owes you a box for the sub if that was part of the orignal quote and he should have called you when he went over the 15hr mark and infromed you of the situation. He should have not charged your card with out telling you I do agree there. I think ten hours was low. I can see it taking the 16hrs. But if you were promised the box then he for sure owes you that. he only went over an hour from his original est. so if he gets you a box I think that would be fair. Just my :02: good luck and post of some pics of the work, sounds like a killer set up:ro::ro:.

[Bryce]

from a price standpoint on the speakers/amps I got a screaming deal. I bought in Dec. and got everything for just over 35% off retail. I haven't talked to them about the box yet but Im thinking of making it myself and then covering with resin and then having then cut/install it. Hell maybe im dumb but I don't even care if its carpeted. From what everyone is saying the time isn't out of the ordinary, I was just blown away with the total time considering what they had left to do at 10 hrs. I think I'm going to tell the owner I don't think I should have to pay for the sub install/removal. Basically get a credit in labor towards doing it right. sound fair?_

[Carter13]

Good approach. ^

[dogbert]

from a price standpoint on the speakers/amps I got a screaming deal. I bought in Dec. and got everything for just over 35% off retail. I haven't talked to them about the box yet but Im thinking of making it myself and then covering with resin and then having then cut/install it. Hell maybe im dumb but I don't even care if its carpeted. From what everyone is saying the time isn't out of the ordinary, I was just blown away with the total time considering what they had left to do at 10 hrs. I think I'm going to tell the owner I don't think I should have to pay for the sub install/removal. Basically get a credit in labor towards doing it right. sound fair?_

You shouldn't have to pay for the sub install/removal. What I always do when there's a problem is ask the dealer what they think is fair. I'm usually (pleasantly) surprised by what they're willing to do. This helps keep my relationship with them on good footing because I come across as being reasonable. It also helps establish trust. At the end of the day, I want to know that I can trust what my dealer tells me and the work that they do.

:02:

[Bryce]

Dogbert,
Good nonthreatening approach. Give them the opportunity to make things wright on their own. Chpthril, is there anything with a .75'' MDF box that has legs/risers on the bottom to keep off the floor to prevent rotting? The WetSounds manual says to use MDF.

Thanks.

[Wake Bandits]

Certainly some negotiation on the price for sure.

Especially because it sounds like they didn't know what they were looking at when they bid the job.

Knowing what your are looking at in terms of work and cost to the customer is first consideration if a person running a business is competent.

[chpthril]

Dogbert,
Good nonthreatening approach. Give them the opportunity to make things wright on their own. Chpthril, is there anything with a .75'' MDF box that has legs/risers on the bottom to keep off the floor to prevent rotting? The WetSounds manual says to use MDF.

Thanks.

If it's coated inside and out with resin and then covered in marine carpet and is off the floor, it will last a long time. My fear was they tossed in a pre-fab box meant for a car that is uncoated and covered in water-absorbing carpet with no rubber backing.

He they took the time to build the box as outlined above, then they would not have any more time in doing one to slightly different dimensions and mounting it to the back of the bulk-head wall. :02:

[Thomas Hohl]

This is just going to come down to "whats your time worth fighting with them". Just make him do what he said he was going to do and for approx the price he qouted you and call it done. As I said, I'm a wood guy and I use a ton of MDf in our products, but I wouldn't and didn't put it in my boat. It doesn't do well in moist environments. Trust me on this one folks, when it gets wet, it mildews and expands like crazy. Use plywood, any kind of plywood, and definitely carpet it to match the rest of the boat. Any auto upholstery shop can do it for you. It's very easy. $60,000 boat must have a finished interior.:cool:

[Bryce]

Thomas,
So use .75'' plywood instead of MDF? Do i still need to coat it with resin??? the manual says to use MDF, so will plywood work all the samme? at this point i just want it done and move on. if i have to do the enclosure myself do i make it 5 sided and use the bulkhead at the front/6th side, or make a completed box with a bigger cutout for wiggleroom and attach it to the back of the bulkhead with the sub attached and poking through?

[Thomas Hohl]

Yep. That works. 3/4" plywood. you don't really need to coat it unless you want to spend the time. Most plywood nowadays can take a little moisture and not be affected. Just don't do what my dumb a$$ did and make a box, send it out to get carpeted, then find out that it won't fit in thru the door to the storage. I have been doing this for 30 years and the one time I forget to check the size (I guess I've gotten a little overconfident), it won't go thru the door. You can make the box any size as long as it comes up to the correct volume inside, cheapthril can tell you what that is. So you could go 12x12x5 for example if that equals your internal volume. AND MAKE SURE IT FITS THRU THE DOOR!
I'm rambling... Sorry, word vomit.

[Bryce]

Thomas,
The manual says it needs .9 cubic feet (14.2"x13"x12.2"). Do I make the box minus the front panel and then screw it to the bulkhead wall and then calk around it and screw in the sub? Is it that easy? If so I may just proceed on my own. I guess ultimately I'll have to wait and talk to the stereo shop in the morning. Thanks for everyone's input.

Bryce

[chpthril]

Yep. That works. 3/4" plywood. you don't really need to coat it unless you want to spend the time. Most plywood nowadays can take a little moisture and not be affected. Just don't do what my dumb a$$ did and make a box, send it out to get carpeted, then find out that it won't fit in thru the door to the storage. I have been doing this for 30 years and the one time I forget to check the size (I guess I've gotten a little overconfident), it won't go thru the door. You can make the box any size as long as it comes up to the correct volume inside, cheapthril can tell you what that is. So you could go 12x12x5 for example if that equals your internal volume. AND MAKE SURE IT FITS THRU THE DOOR!
I'm rambling... Sorry, word vomit.

I always like to mock the box up out of cardboard and see if it fits. The build it.

Thomas,
The manual says it needs .9 cubic feet (14.2"x13"x12.2"). Do I make the box minus the front panel and then screw it to the bulkhead wall and then calk around it and screw in the sub? Is it that easy? If so I may just proceed on my own. I guess ultimately I'll have to wait and talk to the stereo shop in the morning. Thanks for everyone's input.

Bryce

Yep, the xs-12 works great with right at a 1.0 cb/ft box. Use the calculator tool @ www.the12volt.com, it makes it real easy to play around with what dimensions will allow the box to fit, but yet get you the internal volume you need. For a simple sealed enclosure, shape is not important, get the volume correct first.

I have done a couple that were 5 sided, but it's tricky to get it all lined up and hit the box with the screws. I have come to the conclusion that it's easier to just build a std 6 sided box, cut the hole for the sub as normal. Cut the hole in the bulk-head wall, have a helper line the box up from the back, and then anchor it down with some screws through the bulk-head into the front of the box. This way, it's not a crucial where the screws go. Then drop the sob in and secure it down.

[majestic]

Thomas,
So use .75'' plywood instead of MDF? Do i still need to coat it with resin??? the manual says to use MDF, so will plywood work all the samme? at this point i just want it done and move on. if i have to do the enclosure myself do i make it 5 sided and use the bulkhead at the front/6th side, or make a completed box with a bigger cutout for wiggleroom and attach it to the back of the bulkhead with the sub attached and poking through?

Being in the construction business my self I would still cover any plywood that could be exposed to moisture with resin. Plywood doesnt expand like MDF but when it gets wet it wants to bow and it will mold.

My box is MDF and is covered with resin and is built up off of the floor in the port side storage under the stereo and we do not store any wet items in that compartment. :02:

[talltigeguy]

Thomas,
The manual says it needs .9 cubic feet (14.2"x13"x12.2"). Do I make the box minus the front panel and then screw it to the bulkhead wall and then calk around it and screw in the sub? Is it that easy? If so I may just proceed on my own. I guess ultimately I'll have to wait and talk to the stereo shop in the morning. Thanks for everyone's input.

Bryce

Make the front panel, but remember you can actually make the cutout a little smaller because the sub will be attached to the fiberglass wall and the basket will cone down some into the box. That will give you some room to be sure you can attach it tightly to the wall. If you make the cutout bigger, you risk not having enough room for the screws to grab it.

[yllw20]

ahhh now I see why i went w/a free air sub.....I know you sound guys will say that I am not getting the most out of it, but hey its in boat and I am not trying to win a competition.

[chpthril]

ahhh now I see why i went w/a free air sub.....I know you sound guys will say that I am not getting the most out of it, but hey its in boat and I am not trying to win a competition.

The right free-air, with the correct power, on the proper wall, is nothing to sneeze at :02: Is it an L7 or a XXX, no, but it thump nicely.

[Bryce]

I spoke to the owner today and he said they actually spent more than 16 hours on the install but didn't want to charge me for more than that. I haven't seen the install yet (will meet them at my storage facility tomorrow) but he said they took a long time in order to make it clean and something that I would be pleased with. He said the season all of the boat dealers in my area refer all of their jobs to him is because he makes everything look right and doesn't rush. He did say that they will be able to move the sub below the kick pannel the way it should be, which I'll be happy once that's done. He said one of the things that took a lot of time was setting the gains on the amps and tuning in the system. Not sure what that entails but the bottom line is I don't know how to do it and that's why I hired them. Thanks for everyone's opinions and support. Once I get a few pics this weekend I'll post them up.

Thanks again.

Bryce

[SPBFAN]

I have installed several of these now and I like CHP have to agree the 6 sided box it the easy rout. I use 2" PVC pipe to support the back of the box as legs. Install the box measure your distance to the floor and cut the pipe to length. It works great and stays in place.

Sorry to hear your install did not come out to expectations. I am sure they will make it right if not worse case you do it yourself.