Prestige Trailer Collapsed under a Tige 2200i

[bcskypilot]

In 1999 I purchased a Tige 2200i and a 98 BT22 Prestige Trailer. In August of 93 the bunk system on my trailer completely collapsed. The metal supports for the bunks had buckled and caused extreme damage to the underside of the boat. The trailer was only months out of warranty and Prestige offered no assistance. After talking to Prestige and the insurance agent we moved forward with weld and boat repairs setting the trailer back to the manufactures specifications.

Upon completion of the repairs the boat dealership went to water test the boat. While loading the boat back onto the trailer different supports buckled and bent causing similar damage to the bottom side of the Tige.

I'm going on my 3rd season without my boat while I am waiting on the insurance company. I requested that my insurance company replace the trailer the first time and they refused. Now that it has happened again they refuse to fix it and are offering only $1,500 for a replacement trailer...

It's like being forced to watch a bad movie over and over again... Has this happened to anyone else with a Prestige trailer? Anyone selling a good used trailer for a 98 2200i? Thanks for any feedback or suggestions...

[poohpotta]

Wow, that really blows!! I know when I was looking at Tige boats I'd asked my dealer about maybe a lower price trailer like a Prestige or Eagle. I'm glad I went with the Dorsey trailer, it has been good so far!

[Matt Garcia]

Man what a bummer! Talk about a headache from hell!

3rd season without a boat? Geez...I would go insane. Do you use your trailer in saltwater at all?

I hope you get this all worked out soon.

[bcskypilot]

Here in Indiana just cows and a couple small lakes... The boat has never been in salt water. I also keep it stored in a heated/air conditioned garage. There is no sign of rust on the trailer at all...

[Hoots]

That really sucks. If I were you I'd post this info (with pictures) on every single boating/skiing/wakeboarding/consumer protection website I could find. I'd punk out the trailer company and whatever lame insurance company is screwing you over. People will listen and these guys will lose business. Unfortunately it won't get you back on the water. I wish you luck with the repairs.

[Tige M.D.]

that is what's wrong with this countries work ethics. nobody gives a crap anymore about the consumer. everyday this shop tries to do right by every customer that walks through my door. those a--holes are who
give boating a bad name. i'd trash talk any and every buisness or person you have delt with in the past 3 seasons. i'm pretty sure i would be talking to a lawyer by now.

[smendez]

This may fit your boat. Give them a call.

http://www.stateamind.com/boats/view_boats.php?ccode=110202584128018&startitem=5&startpage=1&endpage=5&current=2&category=&make=&model=&condition=

[bcskypilot]

Thanks for the link. I just put an email off to them to find out if my 22i would fit on that trailer. Anyone form Tige or Dorsey on here that may know for sure??


Tige MD I did speak to Tige after the Prestige fell apart on me hoping that because you guys had a relationship at one time with Prestige that you may be able to help some. Sorry to say that I was referred right back to Prestige who stood behind the fact that even though it was months out of warranty, it was "out of warranty". Andrew was able to track down some hard to find parts to put the boat back together though.

I made a call to you guys a few days ago hoping maybe after everything that you may be able to help or point me in the right direction. You guys did put me put me in touch with Dorsey trailers and I appreciate it. From what I gather though they only sell direct to you and dealers. Any pricing had to go through retail dealers. Any shot Tige can get me a great deal on a new trailer if I buy direct from you^?? I’ll gladly send my old Prestige back your way if you like^ Maybe we can get Dorsey to use it in some advertising. They can drop it from a helicopter into the middle of the desert or something… No worries all debris would be cleaned up so we wouldn’t offend any environmentalist or current Prestige Owners…

[TigeDuner]

The trailer for 2000 2300V is made by Extreme Custom Trailers. This company makes an excellent trailer. Comes with disc brakes on all 4 wheels, all welded joints that are ground smooth for a beautiful finish, aluminum diamond plate steps, and a finish on the trailer that shows no signs of rust. They can be reached at extremetrailers.com. Their warranty is for a year with 2 years on the brake acuator. Great trailer...

[balti]

what about the 2005 trailers....who manufactures them. I have just ordered a new 22v , should be here in 12 weeks. This has raised some concern!!

[bcskypilot]

I don't know for sure but from what I gather Prestige and Tige no longer do much business together. I think Dorsey trailer has teamed up with them now. Best to check with a Tige rep or your dealer to be sure...

[Dents]

What can someone expect to pay for a new Dorsey trailer? I have a '98 Tige on a Prestige trailer and I love my boat and plan on keeping it forever and after reading these posts I am going to look into getting a new Dorsey trailer for my boat to sit on!!!!!!!

[Tige M.D.]

bcskypilot,
i don't work for tige inc. i am a service mgr. at the largest tige dealer in the world. as for who's trailer you get with your boat, that is up to the dealer. we use ONLY extreme trailers. great trailer, great company and great service. we have been using them for over 10 years and have sold literally thousands of trailers. i have seen a few failures but they have always stepped up and taken care of the customer. i have a boat in my shop with a eagle trailer under it, not real impressed. seen a few dorsey trailers, they look pretty good, but nothing like an extreme.

[balti]

what about boats ordered direct from the factory......my boat is exported from the factory to South Africa.

[Tip]

I paid 2700 for my Dorsey. Its got chrome wheels (not aluminum), breaks, fold away tongue, and wheels on the prop guard.

Tip

[bcskypilot]

Now thats the kind of deal I'm looking for^. Did you buy it new? Better yet, where did you buy it and do they have more??

Thanks!

[leisure]

Tip, do you have a picture of the wheels on the prop guard?

[Tip]

It was a trailer the dealer used for the demo boat for one summer. The guy who bought the demo boat did not need a trailer because he was keeping it on a boat lift like me so my dealer offered it to me.

The lake is only about 3 miles from the dealer so it didn't have a lot of miles on it. It has a couple of small scratches, and one small rip in the bunk carpet but other than that it was like new.

The dealer told me that trailer costs about $3500 new, I had no idea what they cost new,
I was getting ready to go on a trip and needed a trailer so I bought it.

I'm going to lake this weekend so I'll take some pictures of the prop guard wheels and post them Sunday evening.

[Tip]

I just noticed that I spelled breaks wrong in my previous post! My bad, I meant brakes.

[RZMike]

You guys are starting to scare me. I bought a brand new Prestige trailer for my 23V last year. I haven't had any problems, but I've been outside for the last hour checking for bad/cracked welds :eek:

[Tip]

Here is a picture of the prop guard wheels on my Dorsey.



http://tigeowners.com/photos/data/500/373IMG_0949_small.jpg


-Tip

[TigeDuner]

Looks like the wheels are needed if the trailer is that low to the ground. Good idea.......

[Beau McCrory]

I've got the Dorsey with the prop guard wheels. They are very handy and are virtually indestructable. I'm tough on trailers as a rule, and Dorsey is very tough with the build. Even if they're more expensive, over time, and only one boat repair will more than make the difference in out of pocket expenses!

[smendez]

Tip:

Who's cat did you run over with your trailer?

And then you have nerve to take a picture of it :p

[Matt Garcia]

Originally posted by smendez
Tip:

Who's cat did you run over with your trailer?

And then you have nerve to take a picture of it :p

Bahahahah!!!

[Tip]

That's whats left of the cat I caught living in my boat!


Tip


P.S. Please don't tell my wife, she thinks the cat just up and ran off...

[yllis]

I have a 2004 Extreme trailer with prop guards. Our dealer Ski Dog Sports recommended the Extreme because of how it was built.

It has torsion springs (no leaf springs to squeak or rattle), oil incased hubs (no greasing or bearing buddies), LED lights and great brakes. What I like best is how well our boat loads onto the trailer. It is always centered (even when I am not) and slides on even in low water levels.

I think the Extreme may be more expensive than Dorsey, but it is built like a tank.

Yllis

[byron/prestige trailers]

As with every story, there are two sides. There was considerably more verbage in the conversations between myself and this individual, that he has chosen to leave unstated.

I believe the folks in the know at Tige` will attest, when a corporation manufactures a product for use by the general public, despite their best efforts, they open themselves to the possibility of unwarranted slanderous comments. That is the nature of the beast. Unfortunately these comments can be taken as gospel, even though rational thinking suggests the above stated fact. Every story has two sides.

We'll take it on the chin when we have it coming, but to spend time defending our reputation against this gentlemans' accusations will only serve to lend credit to same. We stand firm in our dedication to higher than expected service and on our decision in this matter.

Nuff Said.
Byron

[raythompson]

Originally posted by byron/prestige trailers
We'll take it on the chin when we have it coming, but to spend time defending our reputation against this gentlemans' accusations will only serve to lend credit to same. We stand firm in our dedication to higher than expected service and on our decision in this matter.
Regardless of "taking it on the chin" your trailer did in fact break just out of warranty and you offered nothing. That is not dedication to higher service.

I am not going to get into a contest over this. But I feel that any well made trailer should be good for at least 10 years. My former trailer suffered broken springs, a failed axle, and the bunks rotted. This was after 15 years of some fairly significant service. But I never had a support component fail.

With the communication of today any company should be willing to go the extra mile to satisfy a customer, even if the customer is wrong. The ill will is just not worth the price.

In a management class I took they were talking about a highly successful company that sold general merchandise. The philosiphy was always to satisfy the customer. So much to the point of the owner telling the staff "If a customer brings in a tire they are not happy with, make it right and give them their money back. And we don't even sell tires."

With all products there is the chance for early failure. How a company responds indicates how they support their product and value the customer. A failed product, that is made right by the dealer/manufacturer, will long be remembered favorably after the failure. A failure that is not corrected will be remembered forever adversely by the individual and their acquantances.

[Tequilasun]

I agree with Ray on this one, at least to a certain extent.

You can read a little more about the situation on the prestige trailer website

http://members2.boardhost.com/prestigetrailer/msg/2212.html

Not that it clears anything up, but interesting to read byrons take on the situation.

[TigeDuner]

Very well written Ray. I agree with you completely, and I did sell tires!!!

[Tige M.D.]

customer service "period". that is why i'm on here, and most of y'all are not even my customers:p

[knelems]

This is my first post,my wife Karen posts from time to time and she showed me this thread, so i wanted to respond. First off,I do not know the details of this sutuation,there are always 2 sides to every conflict. I have owned our dealership for 39 years,we sell Formula and Tige. In those years I have dealt with just about all of the major and minor trailer builders,seen lots of them go out of business,seen many big names bankrupt,then come back with a similar name with no debt,lots of stories out there. Years ago,when a major builder pulled that trick,we got involved with Prestige. They are now our exclusive trailer supplier,except for the saltwater customers that must have aluminum trailers. I have never been disappointed with Prestige customer service,they have always gone the extra mile,even with trailers long out of warranty. I have had many frustrations with other builders that hide behind the fine print of the warranty,but Prestige has never done that. Again,don't know the details of this situation,butI put my money,and my trust,with Prestige. Our Formula buyers demand the best,and they are very happy with Prestige,as are our Tige buyers. There are lots of good trailer builders out there,Prestige is one of them. I have my pick of any of the builders,I use Prestige. Anyone with any concerns,please call me at 205-221-3072. If you have the time to listen,I can tell you lots of stories about things Prestige has done for my customers that they really did not have to do,but just wanted to. Nuff said. Robert Nelems,Nelems Marine,Jasper,Al

[Original Wing Nut]

I think if prestige could go back and revisit this issue prior to it going public I'm sure they would have gone the extra mile to make it right. That is the proper business decision. How much would that original repair have costs. I don't even know anybody with a prestige trailer and I would be skeptical about one after reading this. That is trouble for anyone wanting word of mouth customers. I have built homes for 18 years and have had my issues with home owners, in the end it is far less expensive to just fix the problem. I still build homes and am now in the restaurant biz as well. My employees all know if someone is not happy with anything, we offer something else at no charge and take off the original item and still at that offer free dessert or appitizer. The goal in any business is getting more happy customers than you now have. With my construction company we build for people that come in from word of mouth and have at times had people waiting for us to build them a home with no regard for price because we are known for always being fair. Customer service is everything and anyone that won't relize that is not worth working with period.

[Tequilasun]

I have a Prestige trailer, and the thing is Rock Solid. Judging from some of the other trailers I've owned, this one is pretty well made.


That does not mean they all were though.


As far as customer service, I don't think that every manufacturer should just take back a product because someone mis-used it (and I am certainly NOT saying this is the case here)

I mean what if I bought a trailer for my 22v and parked some big cruiser on it for years, I certainly wouldn't expect the manufacturer to replace it because it collapsed.

Just playing a little Devil's advocate:D

[Original Wing Nut]

I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to replace the trailer. Just try to make it right. There are people you just can't make happy. That may be the case here, I don't know. I just know that a happy customer is ten times better than a dissatisfied one.

[raythompson]

Originally posted by draginass
I have a Prestige trailer, and the thing is Rock Solid. Judging from some of the other trailers I've owned, this one is pretty well made.

I am sure that most of their trailers would be well made. If they were not the duration of the business would be short.
That does not mean they all were though.
Yes, every once in awhile all the little problems that by themselves do not matter, all come together at once and the sum of the problems is usually large.

As far as customer service, I don't think that every manufacturer should just take back a product because someone mis-used it (and I am certainly NOT saying this is the case here)
Customer service is everything in many industries. You could have a superior product and lousy service when there is a problem and the product then means nothing. Things happen. And with as many welds and joints as there are in a trailer, it is possible that one is not quite up to standards. It is even possible to get the incorrect steel in the trailer. What is important is that the dealer/manufacturer stand behind the product.
I mean what if I bought a trailer for my 22v and parked some big cruiser on it for years, I certainly wouldn't expect the manufacturer to replace it because it collapsed.
Even then, it should be up to the manufacturer to prove this was the case, otherwise take the customers word. The base cost on a single trailer can get quickly get eaten up in lost sales because of bad word of mouth from one dissappointed customer. We have no way of knowing how the trailer was actually used. But I doubt that someone would trust an expensive boat to a trailer they did not think was up to the task.

I think what Prestige should have done is simply given the customer a new trailer and taken back the old trailer. The old trailer could have been wholesaled out making up some of the cost of the new trailer.

I would guarantee that the customer would have been well pleased and would have spread the word. In this case many people would then be seeking Prestige trailers rather than avoiding (or heavily inspecting and worrying about their current) Prestige trailers.

There are two sides to every story. For Prestige to say that they will not respond and provide their side is odd. There is no diginifying or justifying involved. Just present the other side. To dodge the issue is an indication of not wanting to reveal something.

Without both sides an informed decision cannot be made and judgements will be made on what was presented. It's sort of like not showing up in court to defend a lawsuit. It's automatic victory for the complaintant.

[Cheeky]

Perhaps Byron would have been best served not to post at all. First, the thread went without a post for a month, then when he posts he tries to give the we are taking the high road approach. Why even go there. If you have specifics as to why the trailer failed and why you chose not to work something out, spill it. IT saves your face and lets others know what not to do to their trailer. If you do not have enough info to post it here, do you have enough info to deny this person a new trailer, or at least one at significant discount.

[Tequilasun]

Originally posted by Cheeky
Perhaps Byron would have been best served not to post at all.

This might be the most enlightened statement in this thread!!

Funny how we think we are doing ourselves/our company service by responding, but it can turn around and bite us pretty quick.

Man I'd like to know the whole story behind this one.

That being said, Prestige probably should have ponied up.

[raythompson]

Originally posted by Original Wing Nut
I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to replace the trailer. Just try to make it right. There are people you just can't make happy. That may be the case here, I don't know. I just know that a happy customer is ten times better than a dissatisfied one.
There may indeed be no way to fully please some customers. Consider it from Prestige's perspective if they did replace the trailer. Prestige would have taken the high road. Then regardless of what the customer said, it would have little to no weight. If I know someone else had a problem with a trailer, and the manufacturer replaced the trailer (even out of warranty) I would value that manufacturer. They would have done more than could be expected and that says a lot about their customer service.

I, and my family have owned VW auto's since the mid '60's and swore by the vehicles. Then I bought a 74 super beetle. That car had many warranty repairs. After about two years it started getting worse and the dealer refused to do any more about the vehicle. I contacted VW and was told that the dealer had the final say.

I sold that car. Guess what? I will never own another VW regardless of features or price. That one car completely turned me off to VW. My family will also never own a VW. My friends know about the car and they will never own a VW even though one of them use to own a VW.

Had VW gone the extra distance and taken care of the problems, such as at a minimum repair all the problems, or better yet replace the car or credit the purchase back towards the purchase of a new vehicle, I would probably have been a VW owner for life. They chose the low road and will never regain mine or many others trust. Several vehicles later and VW has never been on the radar.

The problems with the car were so bad that one week after I sold the car (to a dealer fortunately) the car caught fire and burned up. The cause was indeed one of the problems that I had requested that they fix under warranty that the dealer said was not warranty and refused to do the repair.

With a boat trailer you are not talking about the higher cost of an automobile. The goodwill would have been worth the money to simply repair, or better yet, replace the trailer.

[raythompson]

Originally posted by Cheeky
... If you have specifics as to why the trailer failed and why you chose not to work something out, spill it. ...It may be valuable information to the rest of us and keep us from having problems. It would at least have shown that the manufacturer took the time to fully understand the issue and provided an informed response.

[Original Wing Nut]

Don't you wish all dealers had a Tige MD. He seems like he gets it. I'm having the dealer that sold my boat get it right if it kills me and then I'm gone and there will be no referalls from me. I will have someone else take care of my baby, someone who cares. That is really all it takes is someone that cares about the product the sell or service.

[Original Wing Nut]

Originally posted by raythompson
It may be valuable information to the rest of us and keep us from having problems. It would at least have shown that the manufacturer took the time to fully understand the issue and provided an informed response.
I was watching Byron with prestige trailer was reading this thread and then he signed off. So I gues that is the rest of his story, he has none.

[Tige M.D.]

why haven't we heard anything from bcskypilot lately? he's the one who started this thing.
i agree with everything everybody has said here. yes, there are 2 sides to every story. yes, the manufacture should step up and help. and yes, 1 unhappy customer is very expensive to the manufacture and dealer. but, what is the problem with the trailer? i see one side of the story everyday and sometimes you have to say "here is your part you needed" you freakn liar:D sometimes you just get tired of these certain poeple tacking advantage of a good company with good poeple trying to do a good job. wing nut, how many homes can you build if you gave it all away because of a whinning customer threating to bash you on-line? we all have them and we all have to deal with them. and by the way, i am glad you see that i get it, i just wish more poeple would take notice. i am just taking this with a grain of salt. i would really like to here the whole story though. there is always room to move, a little help goes along way.

[smendez]

The customer is always right -
The customer is always right -
The customer is always right -

Sam Walton figured that out a long time ago. It was the cornerstone to his success.

[Tequilasun]

I thought Undercut the small business man till they can afford to compete then hike the prices was his cornerstone, or at least his kid's.


:D

[Tige M.D.]

sam walton, as in walmart and sams club? be careful what you wish for bringing up his buisiness sense. imagine how bad your service experience would be dealing with $8 an hour service personel? $8 per/hr and no benefits, now thats hiring the cream-of-the-crop.

the customer is not always right. unfortunately, they are wrong sometimes and they need to be called to the carpet on it. i had a customer come in a couple of years ago, he was a pissed off fire fighter, threatening lawsuit, chewing *** on everyone he could because he had a electrical short in his boat that almost caught fire. he had a "mechanic" friend look at it and confirmed that "we" and tige almost killed him and his loved ones. upon further inspection of the melted wire harness we could find only 1 problem. that 1 problem was a 300 amp alternator wired up to 3 batteries via a 10 gauge wire. none of which we installed or were told about. this quickly turned into a "not our problem" situation. so, is the customer always right? no! is there two sides to every story? yes!

everyone complains about high prices for everything. alot of those price hikes are for recuperating costs for frivolous claims.

[byron/prestige trailers]

I have read through this thread several times, trying to determine if my original posting was a good thing, or as Mr. Cheeky suggested....a not so good a thing. I appreciate the MDs' observations " a good company with good people trying to do a good job" and those that try to take advantage these honest efforts.

We have worked hard at creating and maintaining a reputation based on higher than expected service and support, that is recognized and appreciated by dealers like Robert Nelems and our retail customer base. We DO go the extra mile and DO the pleasingly unexpected, so when I was made aware of and read Brian Colliers' (aka, bcskypilot, from Indianapolis, IN) comments on this forum, I slipped into my Popeye mode. "I stands all I can stands, I can't stands no more!"

So I pondered....am I being baited or are there those who truly want to know, as Paul Harvey would say, "The rest of the story".

After lurking here yesterday, I decided, "Shoot the locks off and give them the facts". Then you will have all of the information to make the best informed decision. Besides, at the very least, it will make for some entertainment.

The facts as documented in our files. Mr. Brian Collier purchased his Prestige built trailer on July 10, 1998, not in 1999 as he claimed. His original complaint was received in August of 2003. (The fact that his trailer was 13 months past its' 4 year workmanship warranty period, did not come up in the original conversation, as our stance has been, if we created the concern, we'll take care of it. And we have on trailers that have been as much as 30 months past this period.) He wanted warranty consideration on his trailer, because his bunk support brackets ( a total of 16, made of 1/4" x 3" steel) had folded forward, causing undo contact between his boat and the trailers crossmembers.

I took the original call and asked if he knew how it happened. He said that a person was loading his boat onto the trailer and all of a sudden the brackets collapsed.

I relayed to Mr. Collier the fact that over the last 11 years, we had only seen this concern, once. In that situation, a friend of a boat owner had tried to powered load the boat owners' 353 Formula onto the trailers dry bunks, using, by his own definition, too much throttle and too much alcohol. His wasn't a complaint, but a request for an estimate to turn into his insurance company. He was also looking for an estimate on the baots' damage, and the damage to the taillgate and bed of his F-350,as that is where the boat came to rest.

Mr. Collier said that it was nothing like that...they backed the trailer into the water, the guy powered the boat on and the bunks collapsed. I asked if he was in the habit of using the loading instructions found in his warranty packet. He said "Religiously".

I point out that his trailers' bunk supports totaled 4" of solid steel and that the four forward brakcets were gussetted, because they received the most stress during loading.

Recognizing that this style of boat does not have the ability to trim the motor, forcing the stern down thus raising the bow, during retrieval, we designed and positioned the forward center bunks on our Tige`, Malibu, Correct Craft, ect trailers to provide support for the bow, to insure the centering of the boat in the loading process and act as a "V" block to stop the boats' forward momentum. They actually look like and inverted "V" with the point elevated to match the bows' deadrise.

Brian stated that those were not the bunks supports that folded, that it was the brackets towards the rear of the trailer. I asked him to charactorize the steepness of his ramp, shallow, steep, average depth.
He stated that it was average depth.

With all of this info so far, I want you to picture in your minds eye, the relationship of the trailer to the water level at an average ramp. The stern of the trailer is always under water, when launching or loading a boat. If the trailer was in the water, at anything in the neighborhood of the proper depth, the boats' stern will only contact the bunks when settling as the boat/trailer are pulled up the ramp.

I suggested the above stated observations and asked, when considering these facts, if he could give me some idea of how he thought the bunks could have folded down. Poor design was his answer. I reviewed with him, all of the information we had thus far developed and add that this design was predominate on as many as 42,000+ Prestige built trailers currently in use, with some 3300+ of them specifically design for this style of boat. His answer was the same.

Okay ! He is understandably frustrated...he is there, I am here. I asked if he could send me some digital images of his trailer, so that I could see his concern and determine the best way to assist him. He said he could and would, get these for me. (I never received these)
He asked if he could expect to receive warranty assistance. I told him that thus far we had as yet to determine the underlying cause that created his concern, but regardless we would be happy to assist him in correcting them.

He called back a short time later to see if we were going to help him and I asked if he had sent the pics.

Brian - No. He hadn't had time.

Byron - Okay, would we be able to pick the trailer up and bring it to our facility to review? (Walmart doesn't come to your house to retrieve a product that you are dissatisfied with or one that broke, they have you retrun it. Most all manufacturers' warrantys' require the item to be returned for consideration, at the owners expense. Ours reads likewise, but is rarely envoked)

Brian - No. The boat is sitting on it and it can't travel that way.

Byron - Okay, does your dealer have somewhere to sit your boat, so that we can pick it up?

Brian - No, I tell you what...I'll just turn it in to my insurance company, have them fix it and then, come after you guys.

Byron - I see...how would you like to see us address this issue?

Brian - Replace the trailer.

Byron -Okay, but without the ability to see the trailer and determine the root cause, how would you have us assist you without possibly re-creating the same concern??

Brian - I'll just turn it in to my insurance.

Byron - I understand. When the insurance company determines the cause, and if they find us at fault, please have them contact me, so that we too may know and not repeat the concern.


We are not perfect...never have been...never will be, so we try to learn from our mistakes, otherwise we are doomed to repeat them. And that creates a foundation on sand.

That was the last I heard from Mr. Collier, until the second failure, mid spring of this year.

The conversation is virtually the same, with what the film industry calls, "an optional second ending".

In the interim, Mr. Collier has had someone repair his boat and trailer, paid for by the insurance company. This time Mr. Collier offers to send pics, does so, but now I am looking at someone elses' work instead of my own. Again, how to determine if and what we may have originally done wrong. Kinda like looking at a "67" VW to determine how to repair the uphoistry of an Audi.

After some additional conversation, it is revealed that he has submitted this to the insurance company, again, and they want to wash their hands of this situation by offering to total the trailer out for $1500.00. BTW the first claim was paid out as a "Collision".

We again offer to pick the trailer up, with the hope of finding the root cause. Slim or None chance, but worth a try. Mr. Collier states that the insurance company will not pay to have it repaired again, even if we pick it up. He wants a new trailer and is willing to pay $1500.00. I do not have the ability to sell direct, so I offer to sell a new trailer to a dealer of his choice, for a substantial discount. A discount that gets him into the same neighborhood as that purchased by the above gentleman, but he declines.

If you were in his shoes, and you truly felt beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was a warranty issue, that has now plagued you more than once, and there was the odds on certainty that the next trailer would do the same thing, since the manufacturer hadn't had the opportunity to determine the cause ... would you want another one???

Since we wouldn't have any idea of what to change or that the underlying concern was even of our making, we haven't changed a thing in the design of this style trailer and had not experienced this concern before or since Mr. Collier.

[byron/prestige trailers]

And now you know the rest of the story.

Let's put this into perspective. You build a house where the roof comes together at a ridge, valley, and gabled fly rafter and the new owner experiences a leak, after THEY installed a weathervane on that gabled end. In your minds eye you see the peek of that gable within easy reaching distance of the valley. Your told that it took two people to install the weather vane and your told that one stradled the valley while doing so. You see the person steadying the weather vane during installation, standing with one foot in the valley, because they can't possibly straddle the valley and hold the weather vane at the same time. They cannot offer you any other way that they would approached this installation except to say that your work was obviously shoddy, thus creating the concern.

Since they will not allow you inspect the roof for the cause, do you put a whole new roof on the house, as per their demands?

I hope it is understood that I am not being aloof, or flippant in the above analogy, but I find in my job as VP of Customer Service & Warranty for my families corporation, it is important to put situations into perspectives that folks can relate to, based on their own ventures.

I appreciate your time and patience as I concisely tried to state the facts as they appear in our files, while at the same time trying to explain each fact so that this doesn't become a whizzing contest. Truthfully, I am ill equiped for that or a battle of wits. At this point, a little shock therapy would be a good diversion. NUUUUURRRRRRSSSSEEE !!!!!!! I NEED MY CRAYONS !!!

[Cheeky]

Bravo Byron.

Alot of detail, not sure if that was what I meant. But your first post was basically "there are two sides to the story, but I am not telling mine. " We know there are two sides, not telling looks suspicious(why even post that there is a second side but you are not telling it). Your second post does wonders for the character of your company and you personally. You managed to lay out the facts without slamming the guy, which I am sure is hard not to do at this point.

Personally, I would have loved to know what caused this, but it appears you have not been given the chance to see the trailer and diagnose the problem. Kinda hard to make a warranty claim if you can not even see any pictures.

You can bet I will make sure to dunk the trailer every time now, just in case....

Never been addressed as Mr. Cheeky, kinda like the ring that has.

[delongheavyhaul]

SOUNDS TO ME THAT THE CUSTOMER IS IN THE WRONG. YOU WOULD THINK IF HE WANTED TO GET HIS TRAILER FIXED, OR GET HELP FIGURING OUT WHAT HAPPENED AND FIX IT, HE WOULD DO JUST ABOUT ANYTHING HE NEEDED TO GET THE DEALER WHAT HE NEEDED TO HELP HIM. IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO.:D

[raythompson]

Originally posted by byron/prestige trailers
Since we wouldn't have any idea of what to change or that the underlying concern was even of our making, we haven't changed a thing in the design of this style trailer and had not experienced this concern before or since Mr. Collier.Excellent response and is what I wanted to see, the other side of the story.

You did offer to look at the trailer and make a determination of the problem. Since it was the rear supports that collapsed, and as you say there is very little lateral force on the rear supports when loading, it does not appear that it would be a trailer problem. The highest lateral loads would be on the front supports when the boat is typically out of the water and not supported by the water.

If this had happened to me, and you had offered to view the trailer, and I felt it was the trailer manufacturers fault, I certainly would have made every effort to get the trailer to the manufacturer so that I could some adjustment or consideration from the manufacturer.

I think that you bent over backwards as far as you can go and still be reasonable. You offered to look at the trailer and provide new at a significant discount to a dealer and if the dealer was where I purchased the boat I would also expect their profit margin to be significantly reduced. All this is predicated on the trailer truly being at fault.

It would seem to me that 350+/- HP pushing against water that gives (not solid), would not be enough to bend steel. If it were the prop shaft and engine/drive supports in the boat would be failing at high rates. After all, they are also steel.

For those that are out inspecting their Prestige trailers, well all trailers should be inspected completely every so often. That is how I found broken springs while still in the garage, and rotted bunks. I did miss the axle problem and I don't know that visual inspecting would have revealed the problem. But after 28 years and about 20K miles with a heavy boat on a single axle trailer, I was not dissappointed.

So thanks for coming back and providing an intelligent response.

[raythompson]

I have been to the Prestige Trailers web site and read through many of the forum messages.

It is now my opinion that Prestige does indeed stand behind their products and I have been in error in my initial judgement and for that I apologize. Lesson learned.

The forums are actually an interesting read, especiall about the fella whose wife was pulling the trailer and it came loose, through no fault of Prestige I might add. It seems a wayward mechanic did not properly latch the trailer to the hitch ball.

It also appears that Prestige helps their trailer owners by offering replacement parts and valuable information. I think I would like to own a Prestige trailer and someday perhaps I will.

[Tige M.D.]

and there it is folks, the other side of the coin. good job byron, now lets here from the bcskypilot, this is more entertaining than prime time t.v. these days:D

[talltigeguy]

Nice response, but I don't get the nurse and crayon part, maybe I'm not reading it in the right tone of voice. I thought that you did very well and didn't throw any personal jabs until then. I think Bcskypilot has some explaining to do.


Wing nut - I think at some point you decide someone will never become happy and it's not worth trying extra to please them. You say business owners should do anything to make customers happy, but you turn around and say when your dealer fixes all of your issues, you will never go back. They've already botched your relationship beyond repair.

I'm having the dealer that sold my boat get it right if it kills me and then I'm gone and there will be no referalls from me.

[byron/prestige trailers]

Sorry ! That was a jab at myself. I spent from 5:45 am this morning until the time of the post at about 11:00 am CST, going back through notes and files to insure that the information I posted was dead on with no elaboration.

Being a family owned corporation, my three siblings and I wear many hats in the daily course of our business. I am not only VP of CS & Warranty, but also Director of HR, corporate compliance officer, charged with ensuring our adherence to USDOT, EPA, and OSHA guidelines, and Regional Director of Sales.

I answer virtually all emails received through our website, as well as most all postings on our forum. I also participate on this site, Crownlines' owners' forum, and TBM forum.

So between the interuptions that come from the supporting personnel for each of these responsibilities, I was beginning to wonder if I was ever going to coherently complete the post. My mind runs on a narrow guage and can jump track at every bend.

The folks on the Crownline owners' forum believe that I have multiple personalities and giggle at me when I start stuttering as I type. They think I have a mental hospice nurse at my elbow, just in case my train jumps the track.

So it is commonplace to hear me hollering for my NUUURRRSSSEE !

[poohpotta]

Byron,

It appears that you've went above and beyond the call of duty on this one. I agree with talltigeguy that bkskypilot has some more explaining to do on his part. I currently own a Dorsey trailer, I just hope that if I encounter any problems in the future with my Dorsey that they'll handle my issue(s) in the same manner. Sounds like you all run a top-notch organization, I'll be sure to consider Prestige in future boat trailer purchases.

[joe8395]

So it sounds to me like perhaps someone got a bit drunk one afternoon....attempted to load the boat at speed with the trailer 1/2 in and had a collision. What a thing that must have been to see.

I have an extreme a love it...sounds like prestige would be just as good a product maybe better with the customer service they appear to offer.

[Tequilasun]

Byron,

Rairly does one ask for the other side of the story on these forums and actually receive it.

I am glad to know that people like you are behind my Prestige trailer.


Thank you.

[Tequilasun]

Oh, and Rays right, I was out looking that trailer over from head to toe!!!

Reminder everyone, inspect those trailers!!!

[Original Wing Nut]

Good response Byron, Thanks for the rest of the story. I agree customer is wrong, Prestige did what they could. I don't understand why Bcky whatever wouldn't bring in the trailer. On my issues with my boat I took it immediately to the dealer. They had my boat for two weeks and said everything was fixed, I went to the lake with their service guy and discovered only half the items were fixed correctly. They have since ordered parts and have recieved the wrong ones so I still wait. I have told several people at the dealership that if things were made right all would be good. I will have my boat right and then will not be back. I have a local dealer that is 5 minutes from my place. He sold me a boat 18 years ago. He did not offer tige' but recomended it as a great boat, one of those guys that gives an honest oppinion even if he dosen't sell the brand. The local dealer will get my business because he always has and has been great. The dealer I bought the Tige' from over an hour away on a good day was just interested in selling me a boat, not service. I know the dealer has heard and read of my dissatisfaction, I have never heard from him. when things are right I will post as to what the status is. If they get it right I won't say they didn't, but for now they haven't.

[smendez]

Byron:
Thank you for your Explanation. Well done.

Tige MD:
I think you missed the point about Sam Walton.

His business model said - Satisfy the customer - no matter how right or wrong or in between they are and your business will grow. His business did grow.

Yes - Byron tried and tried to satisfy this customer to no avail. But the fact is that this customer is bashing his business.

Yes Byron has effectively shared his side of the story here. The truth is somewhere in between. Most likely closer to one side than the other. The fact is we may never know.

As he mentions, he wears many hats in his company. He's a busy man. His time is valuable. Posting his version of his story to try to do "Damage Control" has cost him considerably. Most readers of the post will unfortunately - even after Byrons explanation - will have some doubt - whether they admit it or not - about Prestige trailers. Sad - but true. Byron can't change that, you can't change that, neither can I. All that Byron can do is as I mentioned before - Damage Control.

Byron could try to sue for slander, which may include damage to his business name and reputation. He may even win in court, but the damage has been done. He may never even recover his attorney's fees, much less the real cost of this mess.

Now I realize that when you return your weed eater to Walmart they have a lot less to lose than paying for a new Prestige Trailer to satisfy a noisy customer - but in the end - when you add it all up, that trailer may have been well worth giving away.

Every business has the "Customer from Hell". It has to do with how effectively you deal with him or her.

[byron/prestige trailers]

Mr. Draginass,

I will be at TR a week from tomorrow, for the Crownline National Owners Rally. If you are out and about on Saturday the 18th, around 6:00pm, stop by the parking lot at Kimberling City Inn, say "Hey", and grab some food.

My wife, kids, and I wrap our vacation around this event and cook for all the folks, each year...no charge. We will be whipping up a mess of hotdogs and hamburgers for 600+ Crownline boatowners and a couple of more folks won't make or break our spirit. They don't care what boat you own, they just love the pastime and meeting new folks. Great bunch of folks, many of which have become close wonderful friends over the past 7 years.

Would be a pleasure to meet you. I'll be the one in a straw Jaun Valdez hat, sweating like a pig, and sucking on a Corona.

[Tige M.D.]

smendez, the point i was trying to make was, if the customer is always right and you are going to eat every problem the customer has no matter how right or wrong it is it will cost the company money and alot of it. if the employees you have are paid only minimum wage then there is a much larger profit margine for you to eat into. that makes it alot easier to say " sorry mr. customer, we will handle all your problems with no questions asked".

[Cheeky]

It's hard to make the Sam Walton analogy here. Wal mart deals in volume, it's easy to take that damaged weedeater back when you sell 100 more that day.

I am guessing, but if the leaf springs failed, perhaps Prestige would have sent new ones site unseen. Here, the guy is aking for a whole new trailer without sending anything. Thats tough to fault Prestige for, they are at least entitled to inspect the trailer to see why it failed and then decide how to compensate the person.

The house example was given. If you build houses and a client was unhappy, would you give them a new house without ever seeing what happened to the old one. You are more than happy to repair the house to make the client happy, but you would be unlikely to give them a new house.

[Tequilasun]

Byron,

I am quite sorry to say that I will not be around this weekend! I would have liked to meet you. But there are several Tige owner's out there, maybe they will make their way over and say hi.

Mr. Draginass!!! I like that too Mr. Cheeky

I agree with Mr. Cheeky, Wal-mart eats the cost of returns because they do an incredible about of volume. The reason they do an incredible amount of volume is because they were customer oriented. Remember the "Made in america" campain, they did that long enough for everyone to think Wal-mart was a great America supporting business, then they switched to foreign built products. They are in it to make the most amount of profit, and for them their profit model includes taking back items without questions (which has changed somewhat over the years) because they don't feel a great deal of hit from the loss.

I used to work security at Target, and their profit model is different, they don't allow those returns, sometimes they won't even allow things purchased in another Target store to be returned. We got a lot of "well, I'll just take it back to Wal-mart" Both profitable businesses, just working on a different model. And both doing a much greater volume than Prestige.

[smendez]

To all:

I agree - The Walmart that Sam Walton built 50+ years ago is not the same Walmart we know today. My point was that he built and grew his business by sucessfully dealing with all sorts of people in all sorts of places.

Maybe the analogy was not that great. At any rate, it's not worth getting into a big discussion here among online friends. It only has the potential of never ending and / or upseting someone.

I'd much rather discuss how to sand swim platforms with Mr. Draginass while drinking beer :)

Byron:

Best of luck to you and to your customer. I really do hope that things work out for the both of you.

[Original Wing Nut]

Well Said Smendez. Do I need to sand my new Fiberglass platform to hang out on line with cool guys like Mr. Smendez, Mr. Cheeky and Mr. Draginass

[Cheeky]

Do you sand with the grain or against. And what is the best Deck sanding beer?

[joe8395]

On the west coast it's corona w/lime.

[Cheeky]

Do you need West coast graphic to drink the Corona while sanding?

[joe8395]

LOL

West coast is the best coast!

[Tequilasun]

While I think this thread is dead, I would like to quote a very famous animated American

"MMMMMM Beer"

[bcskypilot]

Wow how this post has grown… It’s funny I logged into the Tige site looking for advise on a new tower. Believe it or not… my tower snapped and I knew I could count on some good advice from you guys… By the way the tower is out of warranty but Metcraft has stepped up to the plate and offered to help fix it. That’s a company I will always talk good about… Anyways, while I was logged in I went to add an update to the original post I made about the trailer and boom… I have to say I was a little surprised and disappointed at the direction the post had gone. It may be my fault for not bring some type of closure earlier but wow…

I am doing no better by adding to this old post then Byron from Prestige did because ultimately we will never find out nor agree on what really happened to the trailer. He thinks the trailer was loaded improperly and I know for a fact that it never has been. We both have a completely different view of what, why and how things really happened.

The trailer first broke in 2003 on an evening I was boarding at the lake with my family and a friend. There was no wild party day on the water as some of you have thought possible. I backed my truck down the ramp and sat there while my friend pulled the boat onto the trailer. Byron described this moment as, “the guy powered the boat on and the bunks collapsed…” What he failed to tell you but what he knew from the original post on the Prestige site is that the Friend of mine who “powered the boat onto the trailer” was in fact an old Tige Rep from Atlanta. The trailer was in the water correctly and my friend, the old Tige Rep, loaded it properly. The bunks broke not just in the back but in the middle where most of the weight of the boat sits. Some of the welds broke and bent back, not forward. Anyone who knows me can tell you the how I take care of my boat and other toys. It’s to the point where most my friends think I have a disorder… The boat, nor the trailer have been or ever will be abused or mishandled.

I contacted Prestige looking for assistance knowing that the warranty had expired. Why? Well as a business owner I believe you do your best business only when you always try to do what is right. I stand behind the business that I do and I always try to do the right thing even when nobody is looking… In 2003 Prestige stood by the expired warranty instead of their customer and what I believe was a faulty trailer. They refused to fix or replace the trailer. It was out of warranty, 1 day, 3 years the end of a warranty is just that, the end.


Byron states that he offered to pick the trailer up here in Indy. At no time has this ever been offered. If you have already said hey nothing can be done, it’s out of warranty why would you then offer at your expense to come and get it? I was asked to bring it to Illinois or pay to have it shipped there though. The two boat dealers who used to carry Prestige locally wouldn’t even look at the trailer when I took it to them. Why would I not offer Prestige the chance to come get the trailer and potentially fix or replace it over the winter months that I wouldn’t be using the boat anyways? The boat is stored inside all the time I could have found something to put it on if you where doing all this at Prestige’s expense… With no help from Prestige or the old local Prestige Dealers on repairing or replacing the trailer I was forced to look for other options.

I worked with a great local boat dealer (MD Boats) in an effort to fix the trailer. The story then basically repeats itself… During the initial water test after the repairs, the trailer breaks again. This time I wasn’t with the boat, it was the dealer. I would still guess that it was properly loaded and unloaded though. This time the insurance company said they will pay to fix the boat under the original claim (Yes, collision… I’m not sure what else the 6K+ repairs would go under?) since they refused to total the trailer out the first time. Luckily, they would not repair the trailer again though… Instead, they offered $1,500 to total it. I did not get to keep the trailer after the insurance company totaled it out.

I contacted Prestige after the 2nd incident by phone and email. I left messages about the trailer breaking again but heard nothing back. When I didn’t have my calls returned I posted on their site. The posts are still there for you to see what was really said… If you comment on this post one way or another and haven’t looked at the postings on the Prestige site then you really need to check it out…

http://members2.boardhost.com/prestigetrailer/msg/2212.html

[bcskypilot]

Some of it…


Hello,
In 1999 I purchased a Tige 2200i and a 98 BT22 Prestige Trailer. In August of 93 the bunk system on my trailer completely collapsed. The metal supports for the bunks had buckled and caused extreme damage to the underside of the boat. After talking to your offices we moved forward with the weld and boat repairs. Upon completion of the repairs the boat dealership went to water test the boat. While loading the boat back onto the trailer different supports buckled and bent causing similar damage to the bottom side of the Tige. I'm going on my 3rd season without my boat while I am waiting on repairs. Has this happened to anyone else? Any suggestions about the support brackets for the bunks??
It was followed up with concerns again about improper loading, the same thing I heard the year before.
I posted:

I didn’t mean for my initial post to reflect negatively on your trailers. I loved the set up my boat came with including the color matched trailer. It’s been almost two and a half seasons now that I have been without my boat and so far the only sure option I’ve found that will get me back on the water is to buy a new trailer… Before I decide on a Prestige Trailer I would like to know if others have had the same problems.
I understand your concerns about the in proper loading of the boat. I can assure you improper loading was not what happened to my trailer though. Your example of the carpet problems I would experience if it had been loaded incorrectly a number of times supports this. My bunk carpet was in excellent condition even after the collapse. You can add to it the fact that the person who was loading the boat the first time the bunks collapsed was an authorized Tige' rep. The 2nd time after the repairs where completed the boat collapsed under the boat dealer during the initial water test.
I posted on the site because I have had little success in fixing the trailer. I’m curios to see if anything like this has happened with anyone else and how they resolved it. I haven’t been able to find a dealer who will warranty the repairs after the problems it has already had and I would hate to imagine another $5,000 hull damage bill.

The picture story… I never said I was too busy to get picks… I had sent picks of the original problem the year before. They said they didn’t have them still so I went through the insurance agent to get them again.
I posted:
I sent pics of the latest problem. I am trying to get you additional pics from the insurance agent of the original failure. I've left some messages for you guys but haven't heard anything back...

After seeing how long it would take some manufactures to build a new trailer, I did talk to Byron about purchasing another trailer. The summer is short here in Indy and I hadn’t been on the water for a long, long time. He couldn’t sell to me direct but did offer to sell a trailer at a discount to the closest Prestige dealer. The dealer was in Illinois. After all the discounts and Lake Taxes where added up I was able to buy a new trailer for about $4,500. I could pay to have it shipped to Indy or pick it up in Illinois. It didn’t seem much like a good deal to me especially since my insurance was only paying $1,500. Remember that local dealer, MD Boats?? Well they came through and worked with Prestige to get a trailer built and shipped in a hurry. I’m not sure if I got a great deal, a little less then 4k for a trailer that has more then my old one had on it but I was able to get back on the water within a couple weeks and that made it worth it…

Here’s is a copy of the email I sent to Byron after I got the trailer thanking him for working through this. Yes, this email was sent to him before he drug me through the dirt on the post proceeding…
From: Brian Collier
To: contact@prestigetrailers.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 10:41 PM
Subject:

Got the new trailer and have to say I love it. Thanks for working with MD Boats to make things happen. I do have a couple little things we are trying to work through and need some help.

The Tige' guides on both post have ripped. One is completely off, the other is almost there. They both ripped on the sewn crease. I checked locally to see if it could be sewn but no luck... Any suggestions?

Also, backing up hill even with the 5 prong adapter is a nightmare. The brakes lock up almost completely, am I doing something wrong? Finally, Mark at MD's is working on the lights for the right side. Not sure if he called you guys or not for it.


Thanks,


Brian


For the record, the guides where under warranty and where replaced right away. Thank you again Byron. For the lights, MD Boats fixed the wiring on the trailer at no charge to me or Prestige I believe.


So where is this really going… It’s not really doing anyone any good and you certainly have better things to do… I do as well. I spent this much time on this though because ultimately I am disappointed in the fact that I feel Prestige put more time into the posts that where made on this site then they ever did me during the problem. Even though neither Byron nor I where completely satisfied on the outcome of all this, he posted this after we had worked everything out best we could. Byron acts like Prestige went above and beyond to work this out. If the service was so good and you did all you say and could then instead of going “Popeye” on the post why not send me an email or call and say, "Hey... maybe we didnt agree on why this happened but we did atleast come to a final end. Any chance you can bring closure to the Tige site…" Maybe that's asking too much. It is what I would have done though as an owner of a company...

Again, we both have a completely different view of what, why and how things really happened. I didn't make my orignal post in an effort to drag anyone through the dirt. I posted on this site because I didn’t want to buy another Prestige if I found this was happening to others as well. I wanted to know what other trailer options may be out there… I received some great feedback from people and I really appreciated it. Heck, back to I wish I would have closed this post out with something some time ago... I'll be sure to follow up with the tower ending...

I’ll only have this boat for a couple more years at the most. I’ve kept it this long because I really do love the thing even with some of the issues. It looks great, has just a little over 300 hours, it runs like a dream and… During the time I have it my trailer, that also looks great, is under warranty.

Since Byron decided to post my name… Please keep Paramount in mind for any of your financing needs. We always put customer service first…




Brian
Paramount Investment Corporation
8445 Keystone Crossing Drive
Suite 204
Indianapolis, IN 46240
www.paramountmortgages.com